Freyja's Saga Continues

[Freyja]

Hello Everyone,

My new install of a Lopi Large Flush NexGen-Fyre has chimney clearance issues...Had the dealer came in to repair door gasket since it pulled away during a "cure burn"....Yes I did open the door several times to avoid that problem, but bottom gasket failed anyway....I questioned the owner why he installed a heavy duty 6" single wall liner without proper clearances....1/2" to 3/4" clearance to masonry chimney a code violation? How the hell does an owner know the internal clearances?

Why wasn't I advised before his team hooked up the new liner?....Not a happy camper.....I told him I wanted a twin wall but he uses a particular liner that is much thicker than most...He explained if applying a ceramic blanket (labor intense I'm guessing) it may be shredded if it is installed...I told him I'm getting an IR gun to check interior/exterior temps....

Upon leaving my "chimney specialist" advised he wants to make me happy....That they would come back and uninstall the setup and modify....but a new crown would be needed another $300 bucks...and I imagine labor costs as well....

My question ladies and gentlemen, what should I do?....Would changing the round 6" to an oval help? Can a blanket surrounded the oval?. Don't know how thick these blankets are! ...Should a reducer have been used?...Will there be performance issues afterwards?...What is the best option at this point? The outfit I used is certified...If I wasn't relentlessly pursuing this issue, installers would have gone their merry way...How the heck can the oval such a heavy duty liner?

Thank you all who chimed in on Winter Warm Just Died thread which was getting too long....I also read the thread where TE was helping Tiffany and her mother with their Lopi back in Nov'22- fantastic advice...

Feel like a cat on a hot tin roof!

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Sounds like maybe it’s a heavywall liner, that is good, but I’d confirm that’s the case. That would still require insulation though.
The insulation blanket is held in place by a mesh sleeve through the length of it to minimize tearing on the way down during install.
A pre- insulated liner is good- just make sure you don’t get a 2 ply liner with no insulation between layers. They have issues.
Sounds like breaking out clay liners would have helped by making more space to keep the liner in round.

 

[Freyja]

Thank you Ctwoodtick for the info...I saw the liner before install and it definitely is HD....Since it is already in and used on a first burn it's mine..Lol....My chimney outfit said there are a lot of older homes on Long Island with clearance issues and they have very little problems with the particular liner that was used... They got one now! My home is 33 yrs old.

How the heck can any installer complete a job with an owner that has no idea their setup is a code violation I'll never know...CT appreciate the quick response and thanks again.

 

[bholler]

Thank you Ctwoodtick for the info...I saw the liner before install and it definitely is HD....Since it is already in and used on a first burn it's mine..Lol....My chimney outfit said there are a lot of older homes on Long Island with clearance issues and they have very little problems with the particular liner that was used... They got one now! My home is 33 yrs old.

How the heck can any installer complete a job with an owner that has no idea their setup is a code violation I'll never know...CT appreciate the quick response and thanks again.

How can they do it? Because they don't care. The thickness of the liner doesn't change insulation requirements at all

 

[Freyja]

Thanks bholler...I just emailed the installers that I want the modification.....I'm still pissed I have no block off plate since they removed the old one from my winter warm....going to send another email about the block off...Getting too old for this nonsense...I'm paying BooKoo bucks and want things done right....Is that unrealistic? I don't think so...

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Sounds like maybe it’s a heavywall liner, that is good, but I’d confirm that’s the case. That would still require insulation though.
The insulation blanket is held in place by a mesh sleeve through the length of it to minimize tearing on the way down during install.
A pre- insulated liner is good- just make sure you don’t get a 2 ply liner with no insulation between layers. They have issues.
Sounds like breaking out clay liners would have helped by making more space

Thanks bholler...I just emailed the installers that I want the modification.....I'm still pissed I have no block off plate since they removed the old one from my winter warm....going to send another email about the block off...Getting too old for this nonsense...I'm paying BooKoo bucks and want things done right....Is that unrealistic? I don't think so...

thats realistic of you. Unfortunately, a lot of shady contractors out there

 

[kborndale]

Thank you Ctwoodtick for the info...I saw the liner before install and it definitely is HD....Since it is already in and used on a first burn it's mine..Lol....My chimney outfit said there are a lot of older homes on Long Island with clearance issues and they have very little problems with the particular liner that was used... They got one now! My home is 33 yrs old.

How the heck can any installer complete a job with an owner that has no idea their setup is a code violation I'll never know...CT appreciate the quick response and thanks again.

And there won't be a problem..... until there is! It can take 10-20 years before pyrolysis of wood lowers the flash point enough to be an issue. An issue that can happen earlier would be a chimney fire. That's when you really hope your clearances were met.

 

[Freyja]

Hoorah!...Installer to perform retrofit...a ceramic blanket with mesh sleeve.. I don't know how thick, but I'm assuming 1/2 inch due to tight fit...No charge for any removal, which IMHO is fair...I believe they should have not installed liner in the first place after removing the old setup and observed chimney conditions.

Installer claims no room for block off plate(ughh) but they will add insulation...I thought that should have been part of their 1st attempt but what the heck do I know...

Anyway experiencing the newbie blues with the Lopi Flush...not burning hot enough to ignite secondaries...I followed the manual on unit operation and understanding the system...BG and others stress the importance of dry wood...I took a chopping ax and split some splits and measured the split face core at 14% MC... its 2 y/o wood...also cracked a near by window ..purchased an IR gun since there is no where to attach an analog thermometer on the flush framing....

Tonite I used a bottom up start instead of top down...Plus I split my splits and the insert is behaving better and burning hotter...Just started about 1.5hrs ago...have not reached 500 yet on insert interior yet..fans are running on high, air control in, & damper open...Trying the "read the flames" too...

Wondering if the uninsulated liner is affecting performance...hmmm...Thank you guys for chiming in...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It can affect the performance. Draft works better with a warm chimney.

 

[Freyja]

Thank you EatenByLimestone....3.5 hr mark still I don't see holes in secondaries flame output.....damper in, air control 1/2 in....rm temps have gone from 64 to 72 in hearth rm thermostat......open floor plan...adjacent room has 16ft ceilings....I have reloaded twice with open damper and air 1/2 in..Burning hot, see yellow flame with tint of blue dancing around...damper closed after reload....fans still on high.....Burning wood flames are kissing the stainless tubes....wish I knew what I'm doing wrong...going back to read TE's post with Tiffany from Nov'22....I have a large bed of ash chunks over 2 inches high..trying to keep away from pilot...

It's cold in Long Island tonite and the heat feels fantastic...no longer hear firebox expansion noises....Have to wear my own gloves that are up to my elbows...I open the door and have to stand back..Do not see any glowing components...I have a fiberglass pad in front of the insert I can no longer stand on it barefooted....I'll keep on trying to learn how to operate this critter....way different from my old VC cat insert.. Have a portable co2 detector a few feet away....Thx again for the info....

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The way your heat went up, it sounds like you’re running the stove right. Could it be the secondaries do not appear like you were expecting them to look and you are getting them? Try turning the air down more. See how low you can get it and keep the active flames.

Why are you opening the door when it’s so hot? You’re cooling off the firebox each time you do that.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Try taking a video of the secondary burn and we can tell you what may be happening.

 

[Freyja]

Gentlemen you are wonderful and most kind....Since the ceramic glass is "reflective" afraid to hit it with an IR gun(16:1 two beams measure from 14"'s away)...Travis Ind. told me to try and take a reading on the interior top and provided temperature range for secondary optimum performance(its in the manual)...I don't own a smart phone so it gets complicated...This old goose has not joined the Information Age!...I do not see an output from the tube openings.....I opened the door to measure inside at one point and the metal housing above the brick wall measures 785 degrees....Maybe I'm not closing the damper soon or not loading enough? Further splitting my splits did seem to help how fast and hot I am burning...

Burned until 2am this morning then let fire die down....9am restart had some glowing embers but still too chunky IMO not fine ash...still in mid 40's outside but warming up. Got the fans going again damper close and I will turn down the air and see what happens...Only burning 4-5 pieces of splits..How much and how high should I load? I don't see anything about that in the owners manual unless I missed that and nothing about overfilling except voided the warranty if you do...

Don't want to overfire, that is why not loading above interior wall bricks...sometimes I place wood on the diagonal ..Understand I should have flame burning all around the splits....I tried teepee style too w small splits...lol... Good news is retrofit is scheduled for 11/20 weather permitting...Air is 3/4's in and flames aren't as active....No deuces yet! Tonite will be too warm so I have to wait for the next cold blast..BTW the air wash system is working because I have very little build up on the glass....use wet paper towel and ash to clean.

From a cold start I crumple up newspapers to pre-heat the chimney before I use more newspaper tied in knots, kindling and fat wood. I need a manual splitter that I can handle...My 17 inch Fiskas is helpful but hard to split oak, maple but cherry is ok. Got a few really yellowish wood that is damn near impossible suspect Locus?..Dreaded beetles attacked my pines and have to remove...Should I have tree service give me some splits for next year?....Afraid to use that without advice...You guys inspire me to keep trying...Thank you so much!

Going to hog tie the installer to observe what is going on worst scenario...It is now 70degrees in here....

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Oh, it sounds like you need to add more wood to the fire! Do you have any pine or poplar you can put in to give yourself a quick, hot fire?

 

[Freyja]

No but I understand your suggestion for a "softer" wood....BG posted how he loads his stove in 2020 under the articles thread...Pix were great and wish I had that kind of firebox....Love Love Love n/s loading...The Lopi tapers on the sides towards the rear just like my masonry fireplace....you are probably aware of that....My neighbor has a fire pit so I'll ask when I see them....Hell I'm tempted to go to the gas station and p/u their wood? Would that be okay?

I ordered a manual kindling splitter on Amazon today...it has a v like blade also ordered 3# hammer with a fiberglass handle...That is easier for me to handle and perhaps not as much vibration when used.. I can't split logs with that kind of impact but it will be good for splitting splits...weather will be warmer tomorrow and I'll load up the wheelbarrow and store in the garage. I actually have a Gorilla cart in my hallway loaded with splits....I try to let the wood get to room temps b4 loading...Now you know just how crazy I am.

Using the freebie moisture meter I got with the insert...junky- it works, but no spare pins...In the past I would judge by weight and smack 2 pieces together and listen for a knock instead of a thud...just got a General meter so I'll double check the MC on the splits...When I saw BG's pix today I knew I wasn't loading up enough...I used to pack my VC much more but with this Lopi didn't want to hit the secondaries by accident...

Oh btw I don't have an additional air vent on this system...The fireplace itself has an outside vent on the external chimney, but it is now covered by the insert......That is why I crack a window...Thx for setting me straight on many things....

 

[Freyja]

Houston We Have Ignition!.... I had to cold start kindling and a few splits to get a real good ash bed...reload....then packed the dragon just below the secondaries....Closed damper, fans running high, slowly adjusted air control to fully close position....Lost flame on splits but those deuces look great...If I adjust for more air I lose the secondary burn...is there a sweet spot for both?...no glowing parts just the wood burning more efficiently...Oh my, feel so much better.

Got cold on Long Island this morning, so I decided to hit the woodpile for strictly cherry with a couple of oaks...My wood is basically cut in 16, 18 and 20" splits....I will have to get a mixed load so I can load n/s....to compensate I put some splits on the diagonal...Since my firebox is not square, it is trickier to load...Thank you EatenByLimestone for loading advice...CT I did have clay tiles removed a few yrs ago. Kb I repeated what you said and the installer changed his tune very quickly...Thank you. Loved those remarks...

Heating up the flu today was tough today....that hd liner needs that ceramic blanket which will make my life easier....The only thing that was wrong with this stove was the operator..LOL....

Thank you so much gentlemen for your time and effort ...I am most grateful for a site like this that teaches people how to properly burn wood and not the house! ..This EPA 2020 model behaves much differently than my old VC....God Bless you all for all the hard work you do.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Excellent!

You'll have to play with your stove to find the sweetspot. It's different on every setup and could change with outdoor temps and different loads.

 

[Freyja]

Been playing all day and getting a feel for it...Hearth room went from 64 to 78 in about 6.5 hrs time...That is a tall order considering an open floor with a 16ft ceiling in adjacent rm... Down stairs is 1500 sq ft. .Upstairs thermostat went from 64 to 73 and that is on the opposite side of the house! didn't 't crack any upstairs windows...Not burning as efficient as you pros but I'll learn.. Probably why it takes me longer to raise room temperatures, plus it's a slab home.......Was able to cut grass and rake leaves while stove was cranking...

As you say when outside temps go down, balancing the unit performance for a newbie will be more challenging...Can't wait to see how the insert operates when liner is insulated. Still have a lot to learn and grateful for the forum's articles and advice.

Thanks again guys for putting up with me!

 

[begreen]

Been playing all day and getting a feel for it...Hearth room went from 64 to 78 in about 6.5 hrs time...That is a tall order considering an open floor with a 16ft ceiling in adjacent rm... Down stairs is 1500 sq ft. .Upstairs thermostat went from 64 to 73 and that is on the opposite side of the house! didn't 't crack any upstairs windows...Not burning as efficient as you pros but I'll learn.. Probably why it takes me longer to raise room temperatures, plus it's a slab home.......Was able to cut grass and rake leaves while stove was cranking...

As you say when outside temps go down, balancing the unit performance for a newbie will be more challenging...Can't wait to see how the insert operates when liner is insulated. Still have a lot to learn and grateful for the forum's articles and advice.

Thanks again guys for putting up with me!

Burning wood is an organic experience. Unlike a furnace, there is a direct connection between the user and the wood via the stove. This is all tied to Mother Nature. By the end of the winter you will be an expert.

 

[Freyja]

With this site's help, hope to rise above newbie to rookie in training status..Lol..Retrofit for the new liner is on 11/20 if all goes well....Meanwhile I've been using a manual splitter(Vevor) that has been pretty good...Takes me a little longer due to 3# sledge hammer, but that is all I can handle....Making sure I'm stand either 12 or 6 o'clock so I don't get whacked with the splits when they break apart.....Think I need to sharpen it though..It is a V shape so I can tap a piece of wood into the kindling splitter before I strike a blow......

Thanks BG for chiming in...Aware how busy you and the staff are..Started exploring the other forums...The wood shed interests me because I have some really old wood(10yrs) that is in covered outside storage in the woods ..Doesn't look rotted, maybe a little powder when I remove the bark...Does wood have an expiration date? I figure it will just burn at a high rate....very light in weight...

Hope everyone is preparing for the holidays and enjoying themselves...Thanks again for posting those pix on how to load a stove...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I hope it doesn’t expire. My house is made out of it!

 

[Freyja]

Ha-Ha EBL.....guess that answers my question.....Been holding off on stove usage since the retrofit is a week away....I am noticing how much longer it takes to heat up that single wall HD liner vs what I previously owned....Getting cold out so I'm sure my fellow burners are happy. Stay safe and warm everybody....

 

[Freyja]

Retrofit is completed...Now have an insulated liner! Woo-Hoo......Yesterday was a long hard day for installers expensive for me.....Wrapped the liner with foil faced insulation...glued, tapped strapped, mesh etc...Dealer said I could burn today, but I'm going to wait.....Think I'll let this cure a little longer than his recommendation...He too asked me for updates on performance.. I will christen on Thanksgiving Day

It wasn't easy due to lack of room...that's why new wrap is only 1/2" but I'll take whatever I can get...Crew was here over 6hrs...Dealer took the photo you see as my new avatar...Sorry I forgot to removed the tarp covering the hardwood floor...

Many thanks to all who chimed in and put my feet on the path of knowledge...Now if I can only master the air intake controls on this critter...Hopefully being insulated will make my wood burning experience easier.....Happy Holiday and Thanks Again...

 

[begreen]

Progress, congratulations. With everything going on tomorrow, I would burn today when it can have your full attention or maybe wait until Friday.

 

[Freyja]

Hi BG...Actually I'm busier today than I will be on the holiday....I got invites but friends seem to have a virus spreading amongst the whole family....They will send over a meal for me so no cooking for Freyja! I'll whip up veggie side dishes with Red Shrimp since I'm a pescatarian...I will eat the turkey my friends and neighbors kindly send...can't resist that on Thanksgiving...

I'm tempted right now since it is getting cold & nasty, but I want to burn earlier in the day so I can observe the smoke from the chimney. Now you guys can see in my photo just why I needed a flush insert....It really is a beautiful and functional unit when properly handled. Newbies have a learning curve with this EPA rated stove....

Enjoy your turkey!..I read about your recipe...Wish more cooks would chime in on the Inglenook....I remember BFunk and his pizza's!Yum