Gardus Sooteater stuck in 6" flue pipe

[davidmsem]

I agree pics are needed because I can say having used mine for the last 4 years, there is no way mine could get stuck if my straight chimney..... Now if you have some bends I could see it.

Yes, there are bends. One of the joints became disconnected.

 

[begreen]

I suspect the pin lock was not properly engaged. That is a pretty solid connection. Our flue system starts out with a pair of 45s. The sooteater glides right through them. Pull down all the stove pipe for easier access and try to see if you can reach up in the pipe and grab an end.

 

[davidmsem]

I suspect the pin lock was not properly engaged. That is a pretty solid connection. Our flue system starts out with a pair of 45s. The sooteater glides right through them. Pull down all the stove pipe for easier access and try to see if you can reach up in the pipe and grab an end.

Yes, I suspect the same, but I swear I heard them all click when I engaged them. They are HARD to get apart so I'm kind of shocked. I have a pair of angles as well at the start, might even be 22.5 degrees. Are you suggesting to pull out the Regency 3100?

 

[davidmsem]

Buy a second one to knock the first one out...can't anymore than get 2 stuck up there

Good idea! I purchased a second head and I'm going to try and sweep it loose. I'll report back.

 

[davidmsem]

The polyester or vinylester used to bind and form the fiberglass will start to soften at about 200ºF
The temp the fiberglass melts at is pretty much irrelevant.


which is moot considering the Gardus uses 12mm or 16mm nylon or polypropylene rods which are thermoplastics with melt temps under 450ºF, they also will soften before they melt. The whips are made of a nylon that melts like a candle at around 425ºF and also soften much sooner than that.
So theoretically, if you were stuck in a straight shot, a fire in the stove should cause the sooteater to drop if it is only wedged in. You would have a possibly melted mess to clean up. If it actually gets to 425ºF it is like hot candle wax which, when it cools shapes and often sticks just like candle wax.
I would use heat to let it fall as a last resort. Although if you can grab it, heat the flue, then pull it up that might work. Keeping in mind, warmed thermoplastics have lower tensile strengths and elastic modulus.

Thank you so much for all this detail!

 

[davidmsem]

I agree pics are needed because I can say having used mine for the last 4 years, there is no way mine could get stuck if my straight chimney..... Now if you have some bends I could see it.

I added one pic of the outside, will add one from the inside soon. Thank you.

 

[davidmsem]

Just pull the stove and grab ahold of it..
That thing ain’t comin past any bends without getting ahold of the end first..

Thank you.

Gulp. I watched the install guys struggle to get that thing in place. Perhaps I'll get to this thought after trying to knock it loose first.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Too bad you cant drop a weighted object that takes up most of the space down the flue. It could push the sooteater down to where you could grab the end.

 

[MAD MARK]

Yes that top rock slab looks pretty big for a single person to move, let alone taking in the roof grade and height.

Wheres the inside pictures? Still not sure whwhy you cant disconnect the piping and try to reach in through the house.

 

[davidmsem]

Too bad you cant drop a weighted object that takes up most of the space down the flue. It could push the sooteater down to where you could grab the end.

The bottom of the sweep is probably caught on the ripples on the side of the pipe. Pushing down might help if I could get it to bounce a bit out of place, but way too high for me to up there.

 

[davidmsem]

Yes that top rock slab looks pretty big for a single person to move, let alone taking in the roof grade and height.

Wheres the inside pictures? Still not sure whwhy you cant disconnect the piping and try to reach in through the house.

They used a mason's crane to pull that slab up, two men.

I will add a picture from inside (been busy). I'm nervous about disconnecting the unit and not being able to get the unit back in.

 

[Highbeam]

Still not sure whwhy you cant disconnect the piping and try to reach in through the house.

It's an insert. Without removing the insert there is no way to remove the piping. Sometimes you can barely even see the piping if the lintel is low.

If this is a flex liner I would also worry about the bottom end of the rods catching and ripping the liner as you force it down.

This is really a fine mess the OP is in. On the edge of my seat....

 

[MAD MARK]

Totally missed where its an insert. Makes sense now.

 

[begreen]

Posting the picture helps. Learning this is an insert helps too. I suspect the insert will need to be pulled to make a tough job a little easier, but maybe now. It sounds like you want to try shaking it loose with another soot eater first. That might work if the bottom end of the rod is just snagged on a ridge somehow. Normally the weight of the rods makes it want to come out on its own.

 

[davidmsem]

It's an insert. Without removing the insert there is no way to remove the piping. Sometimes you can barely even see the piping if the lintel is low.

If this is a flex liner I would also worry about the bottom end of the rods catching and ripping the liner as you force it down.

This is really a fine mess the OP is in. On the edge of my seat....

Yes, this is a flex liner with an insulating blanket so don't want to push down for the reasons you cite.

Why me?

 

[davidmsem]

Posting the picture helps. Learning this is an insert helps too. I suspect the insert will need to be pulled to make a tough job a little easier, but maybe now. It sounds like you want to try shaking it loose with another soot eater first. That might work if the bottom end of the rod is just snagged on a ridge somehow. Normally the weight of the rods makes it want to come out on its own.

I remain hopeful that with a be head I can jiggle it loose. Sigh.

 

[bholler]

It has happened to me before but usually from the top. Or a broken rod. I have just used another cleaning head and gotten the two tangled together

 

[Highbeam]

Liners don't usually have really sharp bends in them. I'm still surprised it hasn't just fallen down to the firebox. Maybe go outside and hit the back of the fireplace with a flat palm. Yell at it.

 

[davidmsem]

It has happened to me before but usually from the top. Or a broken rod. I have just used another cleaning head and gotten the two tangled together

I have another cleaning head on order. Wondering if I should leave the diameter a little wider on this one so it tangles and hits the stuck one harder? Any thoughts on that?

 

[bholler]

I have another cleaning head on order. Wondering if I should leave the diameter a little wider on this one so it tangles and hits the stuck one harder? Any thoughts on that?

I never trim our whips down. It may work better.

 

[Highbeam]

I never trim our whips down. It may work better.

Interesting. So with a 6" pipe have you found better performance with longer whips? like 10-12" total? I've noticed that there is a non-whipped area of flue right after a bend since the bend sort of forces the center of the head to one side of the flue and away from the other.

 

[bholler]

Interesting. So with a 6" pipe have you found better performance with longer whips? like 10-12" total? I've noticed that there is a non-whipped area of flue right after a bend since the bend sort of forces the center of the head to one side of the flue and away from the other.

No not better performance. The performance is the same but I don't need to carry 6 different heads with different lengths. And I am not changing them every couple days.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Looking at the pic a bag of sand might fit in under that stone slab.

 

[brenndatomu]

OK, been thinking about this one a little...here is an idea...just try to follow me here...this is some "for real" outside the box thinking!
Get a piece of some plastic that is "stiff-ish", but flexible...I'm thinking some sort of empty plastic food container...or drink bottle, around 4-5" in diameter. Poke a Sooteater rod sized hole in the top and bottom, offset clear to one side. Now cut about 1/4 to 1/3 of the whole side, top to bottom out (opposite the SE rod hole) including some of the top and bottom, in a fashion to make a "scoop". Think of it like this, put your hand straight out with your fingers slightly curved, like you were going to dig a hole in the sand by hand...that is kinda the shape I'm thinking of. Now stick the SE rod through the previously made holes and duct tape your "scoop", or "hook tool" to the rod...use plenty of tape...no need for anything else to come apart in there!
Now, what I am thinking is that if you stick this in there while turning "against" the direction of your scoop (or "backwards") you should be able to add rods until you get up to the end of the hung up tool. Now start turning it the other direction, so that your tool can possibly scoop up the stuck SE rod off the wall of the liner...assuming it is stuck at the 22.5* elbow, this scooping action, along with gravity, maybe enough to get it to drop down within reach.
A bore scope could help too...but I'd try this first, even without one.
Hope this makes sense...if not, I can make one and take a pic...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Might as well try it!