As everyone all ready knows my Garn is leaking again. So I am asking. If I was going to buy another boiler should I go back with a Garn or look at a Switzer if my Garn is not repairable.
Garn VS Switzer
- Thread starter hedge wood
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Why wouldn't you just repair the Garn instead of paying $15,000+ to purchase a new wood boiler? Garn is one of the few that you can actually crawl inside and re-weld, most wood boiler owners don't have that option and I'm pretty sure all these makers purchase their steel from the same few sources. Patch it up and it should run indefinitely.
Part of what you say is correct. You can get inside of the Garn for repairs but there are areas that you aren't going to be able to repair by doing that. I do think were this leak is it will be able to be repaired. I just spent $3,000 on it less that two years ago and this leak will probably be around the same. So if I end up spending $2,000 to $3,000 every few years. Does it make more sense to bit the bullet and spent the $20,000 that it would take to replace it and be done with it. If this tax break ends up being what they say that would help a bunch. One of these times it will be leaking were you aren't going to be able to fix it with out removing it and cutting it apart. When that happens it will be scrap time. Its that good money after bad money thing. When is enough is enough and you stop burning wood and sell the support equipment. If I didn't have farms to clean up I wouldn't fixed it two years ago.
Not getting into the water treatment/ filter aspect, however you have had more than your share of troubles. A new garn would be plug and play, if you could get past the worry factor. I’d bet even with its history, you could sell it easily for what you paid to have it fixed plus some.
Gary builds a good boiler, allowing you to eliminate a pump, flat plate, higher firing temp, dhw coil and no water monitoring. From a few testo fluegas analyzer readings on a new install 12 years ago, it however was less efficient than the garn, this might not be the case today?
It’s a tough call, but with what you now know about garn’s water and filter requirements, and the plug and play aspect, it would still be my choice.
Gary builds a good boiler, allowing you to eliminate a pump, flat plate, higher firing temp, dhw coil and no water monitoring. From a few testo fluegas analyzer readings on a new install 12 years ago, it however was less efficient than the garn, this might not be the case today?
It’s a tough call, but with what you now know about garn’s water and filter requirements, and the plug and play aspect, it would still be my choice.
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
I can fully understand the bad taste in your mouth aspect. That would be a very tough call for me but I know for a fact I would not keep dumping money into something that wasn't treating me right.
gfirkus
Member
I was real close to going with garn. I need to look at any larger purchases I make so I took a drive to get a better look at Switzer, and was sold on that one by the time I left. I did look at a garn install closer to home also. If your undecided go take a look at the Switzer to compare.
I’m just a stove guy but I can’t believe you’re even considering another garn! Heck, after reading your story I suspect many folks crossed it off their list.
You make a very good point and I normally do the same. When I bought the Garn I didn't feel like I had the time to drive or fly the fifteen hundred miles to look at the Switzer. I listen to a member on here that at the time was selling Garn and thought they were the best. I didn't even go look at one of them. Ordered it up and drove the five hundred miles to pick it up when it was built. That time and plane ticket to NY looks cheap today. Sometimes these life lessons are costly.
Thanks for those that posted a reply. I was hoping to have the Garn and Swizer guys come out and talk about there units but it appears they aren't on the site. For those that were wondering you are right if I can't fix the Garn I won't be buying another Garn. At my age its going to be tough to spend another twenty grand on a boiler. I may look into a new indoor boiler or a used indoor boiler as I have another twenty five hundred gallon stainless steel insulated mild tank that I could use for a storage tank.
What is causing the garn to leak? I would be beyond livid if I spent that kind of money and had the trouble you are having. I know guys on here don't like used boilers, but I have had great luck with my used eko. I guess if I was in your shoes I'd be looking for a sweetheart deal on a used indoor boiler. There were a couple of guys just about giving away eko's on here a couple of years ago. Don't wait until your back is against the wall and you have to make a big decision. When I realized I made a mistake with buying a owb it took me a couple of years to accumulate all the pieces I needed to make the switch. I was able to sell my owb during the transition for what I had in my new to me eko and used propane tanks (storage).
The first leak was a bad factory weld that cracked. I guessing that's what is going on this time in a different location. I sure thought when I bought this in 2009 if I maintained it I would have 20-25 years of free sailing and not less than eleven years in, be on leak number two and already spent three grand on leak one. I already have that feeling my back is up against the wall. Bad time for a leak when it was minus fifteen yesterday morning. I have checked my propane furnaces and there's propane in the tank and money to buy more propane in the bank. So if the leak get bad before spring I will just switch over to propane. I have made it from mid Dec to now with the high temp silicone fix. Its leaking a quart to half a gallon in 24 hours. I will be watching for a indoor boiler since I have the extra tank.
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
I bought my Tarm used and its been a good unit. The sensors were acting up and I felt the unit wasn't running to its full potential so I played with them a bit by pulling them up out of their wells a little at a time.
Unit runs the cats meow now.
Unit runs the cats meow now.
Unless you can pressurize that tank you have I would start looking for 1000 gallon propane tank. Most have enough usable fittings already in and can be found cheap. I don't have to tell you about the added costs that go with water treatment
gfirkus
Member
I really like my Switzer boiler but everyone has there own personal preference what they think is best. As I mentioned before, I chose the Switzer over the garn after looking at both. I just couldn’t find any bad reviews on the Switzer. Feel free to ask any particular questions as I don’t have an understanding of what you want to hear about.
I was just wanting the Garn and Switzer guys to chime in on how there units had been. I have had a number of Garn guys contact me off line of some issues that they have had and concerns they currently have. I do believe the Switzer boiler is very good and if I was younger I would have order one up when I had the first leak and saved the three grand I spent on the repair and cut my losses then. At my age it tough to spent another twenty five thousand to put another heating system in. At my age and with some health issues I don't know how many more years I want to or can put up the 15 cord of wood I need to get threw the year. I do love the wood heat as I set the house temp at 74 and it just stays there.
15 cord of wood
! What the heck are you heating!? And how do you ever keep in front of that with seasoned wood?
! What the heck are you heating!? And how do you ever keep in front of that with seasoned wood?We do have a good sized three story farm house. Insulation is good siding and newer windows. We do like to be warm . Shop is 30X60X16 and its not heated all the time. I do run year around so probably a couple of cord for domestic in the off season. Not burning junk wood this is all locust and hedge mostly hedge now. Yes it keeps you busy to have seasoned wood ready. I normally have 15 cord on trailers in the storage sheds. I thought my wood usage this heating season was going to be down some as the winter had been mild but we are making up for it now.15 cord of wood
gfirkus
Member
I had about $15,000 in my entire system including travel costs(tolls, gas, and buddys truck= around $1000) . My boiler was $12000 I think. I know steel prices are extremely high the last year. I don’t know what current boiler pricing would be.
I just priced the Switzer 2150 gallon one is around sixteen grand and the 2600 gallon is seventeen grand. By the time I ship it and redo my building to put it in and get it hookup I sure I would be at twenty five grand. That's a big investment for a older guy.
eauzonedan
Member
Hedge:
Holy crap... 15 cord a year for 10 - 12 years... that’s a ton of burn hours and duty cycles. I run half that wood amount in my 1500 and assumed that was above average. If that’s true - you already got 20 - 25 years of service for a normal kinda user. It would be very informative to hear what kind of service life other Garn guys are getting with what kind of use and maintenance. I’m pretty anal about keeping the beast clean and replace insulation and fire brick as recommended and that hopefully minimize thermal stresses. Target burns are 180 and are easy to hit with extra thermometers in the tank. Think I only hit upper 180’s once and some suspect a few beers may have been involved. I don’t have a Lunde tattoo anywhere but note any issues I’ve had - have been addressed to my satisfaction by the guys at Garn. If I had one complaint on the stock system it would be the (lack of) telemetry and the tendency to over cook things for that reason. What kinds of highest temps has your unit seen? I also encountered a hot spot on the left side of the door due to ash plugging the air collar there. I note an insulation blanket in that area which think says they’re trying to protect that area from something. Not trivializing your problems in any way - just trying to better understand what failed and why. Maybe other users and smart people that better understand thermal stresses at welds as well as duty cycles etc - will weigh in.
Dan
Holy crap... 15 cord a year for 10 - 12 years... that’s a ton of burn hours and duty cycles. I run half that wood amount in my 1500 and assumed that was above average. If that’s true - you already got 20 - 25 years of service for a normal kinda user. It would be very informative to hear what kind of service life other Garn guys are getting with what kind of use and maintenance. I’m pretty anal about keeping the beast clean and replace insulation and fire brick as recommended and that hopefully minimize thermal stresses. Target burns are 180 and are easy to hit with extra thermometers in the tank. Think I only hit upper 180’s once and some suspect a few beers may have been involved. I don’t have a Lunde tattoo anywhere but note any issues I’ve had - have been addressed to my satisfaction by the guys at Garn. If I had one complaint on the stock system it would be the (lack of) telemetry and the tendency to over cook things for that reason. What kinds of highest temps has your unit seen? I also encountered a hot spot on the left side of the door due to ash plugging the air collar there. I note an insulation blanket in that area which think says they’re trying to protect that area from something. Not trivializing your problems in any way - just trying to better understand what failed and why. Maybe other users and smart people that better understand thermal stresses at welds as well as duty cycles etc - will weigh in.
Dan
eauzonedan This Garn has been treated with kid gloves also. If your only burning seven cord a year I would wonder if you needed to spent the money a Garn system cost. Garn has always acted like these are good for a 24/7 operation so I don't think 15 cord a year is a big deal. I run this one up to around 190 at the end of a fire. The owner manual I have still talks about over firing it past 210 is no problem other than losing water. They have since pulled that from the manual. What is the normal amount of wood ran threw a Garn a year? I don't have that answer. The welds I have seen fail so far don't appear to be happening from too many run hours. I didn't even make it threw season nine before the first leak happen. When I bought the Garn they knew my heat load and yes it has taken more wood than they said it would but they said the 2000 was the one to get and they had many running twenty to twenty five years old and never any major issues. I guess like the old saying goes I got the one made on Monday or Friday. I hope yours kept's running trouble free. Right now I am just trying to get threw this cold spell without having to drain it.
I'm not understanding where the leak is in your Garn that you can reach it with silicone but it can't be welded for a few hundred bucks. I'm just a farmer welder but torch/grinder/plasma quickly make a big enough hole to work through. Its not pressurized so we aren't talking fancy boiler welding.
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