Glass sooting question

Atomicskr

New Member
Nov 20, 2018
20
Annapolis, MD
So here's my story.... Last season was my first ever burning a pellet stove. I'm using a 2007 Englander 10-CPM that came in the house I bought last year. At first I had a lot of issues... I didn't know how to clean the thing properly, the previous owner had installed the wrong exhaust blower, etc. It was a pretty steep learning curve but after a few months the thing was a beast. I used it as my primary heat source for a 2200 sqft tri-level split house and it would keep the place very comfortable with outside temps in the teens or twenties. The only problem I didn't manage to get solved was the glass sooting up. Even with the stove burning hot and breathing well the glass completely soots over after about 24 hours of use. It's a mix of dark black soot and lighter ash particles. The gasket around the glass is fraying and generally looks in bad shape. My question is, could this gasket be causing the door glass to soot over? I love the heat this stove puts out and it would be great if the glass would stay clean longer so it would add a little ambiance to the room as well.
 

bob bare

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2013
2,960
park county montana
Englanders are probably the worse for the glass getting dirty,yet they provide excellent heat.Get over it and clean the glass daily,or buy a 4k stove.
 
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Atomicskr

New Member
Nov 20, 2018
20
Annapolis, MD
That’s what I was afraid of.... I’ll try the gaskets anyways but now I know what to expect. So long as the house is warm that’s what is important.


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FirepotPete

Minister of Fire
Oct 25, 2010
650
Titletown U.S.A
That’s what I was afraid of.... I’ll try the gaskets anyways but now I know what to expect. So long as the house is warm that’s what is important.


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First off if the glass gaskets are leaking you are adding air to the burn chamber not cutting it off. That would actually result in cleaner glass not dirty. Some stoves actually have part of the gasket removed to work as an air wash for the glass, but in theory that is not very efficient as you want all combustion air coming from outside through an OAK.

You don't say at what heat range you are running the stove at, pph for that feed rate and the exhaust settings. Most stoves don't run real good on the lowest setting. Now you have to consider the stove itself and how much you can adjust it for feed rate and exhaust. Either less fuel or a little more air. More air will be a cleaner burn but then you might have to bump up the pph for the lowest feed rate.

Try and get it to burn with the least amount of fuel without going out. If you adjust the exhaust you will have to adjust the feed rate.
 
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Overfireinthehole

Feeling the Heat
May 5, 2017
467
Miller MO
A small amount of air coming across the glass at an air wash is one thing, but if a door leaks bad enough you are sucking air at the door that would normally be sucked into the fire through the pot which can cause longer ignite times and incomplete combustion of fuel.
 
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Atomicskr

New Member
Nov 20, 2018
20
Annapolis, MD
Thanks all for the input. I’m ordering the door and glass gasket today. Not sure when I’ll have a chance to really run the stove and report back since it’s still in the 60’s in MD for the foreseeable future. But once cold weather sets in I’ll let you know how I made out.


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FirepotPete

Minister of Fire
Oct 25, 2010
650
Titletown U.S.A
Thanks all for the input. I’m ordering the door and glass gasket today. Not sure when I’ll have a chance to really run the stove and report back since it’s still in the 60’s in MD for the foreseeable future. But once cold weather sets in I’ll let you know how I made out.


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Do the dollar bill test on the door gaskets, if it passes save the money for something else.

If changing the glass gasket makes you feel better go for it. A way to test that gasket is to light a cig while the stove is running, put it below the glass so the smoke either follows the heat from the stove straight up quickly or you will see wisps being sucked into the edges of the glass.

If you are taking in too much air you would not be getting black on the glass, you would be burning the fuel out of the pot and the fire would go out. On start up that is a different issue but you say this is when the stove is running hot. Too much air is not your problem.
 

Atomicskr

New Member
Nov 20, 2018
20
Annapolis, MD
Do the dollar bill test on the door gaskets, if it passes save the money for something else.

If changing the glass gasket makes you feel better go for it. A way to test that gasket is to light a cig while the stove is running, put it below the glass so the smoke either follows the heat from the stove straight up quickly or you will see wisps being sucked into the edges of the glass.

If you are taking in too much air you would not be getting black on the glass, you would be burning the fuel out of the pot and the fire would go out. On start up that is a different issue but you say this is when the stove is running hot. Too much air is not your problem.
Sorry I’m a little new at this..... what is the dollar bill test?


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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
2,254
Eastern Ontario
Put a bill between the door gasket and stove . Close door and pull bill out
the amount of force needed to remove bill tells you if the gasket seal is good.
If the bill slides easily replace the gasket if it is hard to pull out the gasket is good.
Try it in a few places around the door. I have never had to replace a door or ash
pan seal on my stove (17 years ) It is kept clean and fluffed looks like new.
 

FirepotPete

Minister of Fire
Oct 25, 2010
650
Titletown U.S.A
Also if you insist on changing that glass gasket make sure to find the torque spec for the screws that hold it in place. Too loose and you will be sucking air, too tight and with expansion of the glass and metal you will shatter the glass eventually.
 
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Overfireinthehole

Feeling the Heat
May 5, 2017
467
Miller MO
Petes right about the glass gasket though. It’s pretty rare for one of those to actually need replaced. 90% of my customers who think they need a door gasket don’t either. There’s normal glass soot and there’s black soot like you would get from a lamp or candle. The really black stuff is usually from incomplete combustion or poor airflow.
 
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Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
Make sure that the air vents for the air wash (Either the top of the glass is open to allow air to flow down over the glass, or there will be another source of clean air to keep the glass clean) CLEAN IS A RELATIVE TERM THOUGH

My Whitfields both skunk up the glass within a day.

THE large stove has been used several days to get this dirty and the small one has 2 days on it.

Good clean airwash passages help...as does a good flowing chimney.

My stoves are both direct vent....and this tends to reduce the draft of air a bit.
 

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Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
Nope...pretty mundane stuff..;lol;lol

Did not help the crap on the windows either;)
 

Jake86

Burning Hunk
Oct 8, 2015
153
Plymouth, Massachusetts
Bought a quality softwood pellet and my glass stays clean up to 3 days. Use to go brown in a few hours. Took me 5 years to figure this out. Live and learn or i'm not to swift, probably the latter. Flame seems whiter and the heat is great. The elephant in the room is the pellet.
 
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Sm1ley

New Member
Dec 13, 2018
18
Western Colorado
A) Atomic makes awesome skis. Pretty much at the resort I ski Atomic/Salomon and K2s.

B) Thanks for the dollar bill test! I learned something new.

C1) I would change the gasket, burn it for a day. See if it improved.
C2) Buy a different bag of expensive pellets, use the whole bag. See if it improved.
C3) Try upping my LBA (using old pellets). See if it improved.

D) Clean the chimney. If the stove looks gunky in the window, the exhaust is probably the same.

E) Snow can't happen fast enough! Ouray/Silverton in the backcountry are supposed to get hit tonight :)