Got a strange one....

[mountain man 2]

Hello all....
I have an Enerzone 1.8 Insert....this will be are 2nd year running it. Burning oak,hickory,ash,cherry,etc. Not as dry as id like it...however...its under 20%...varying doun to 15% on fresh splits.
Chimney is 14 ft with an insulated flexible stainless liner with cap (liner n cap is clean).I dont have a block plate installed yet (have one made up n planning on installin it this spring when cleaning stove n chimney)...chimney is located in the interior or the house.
My home is siuated at close to 1900ft. elevation....maybe 150ft below the peak of the mountain on the southeast side.
Everything i read about drafts....states...the COLDER IT IS ..THE BETTER THE DRAFT. The strange thing is..im finding totally the opposite.
Colder it is ...harder to maintain a good burn. 40* right now...great stove temps if i want them.
Let the temps drop to 20*...its like night n day. When its colder...door open ..good draw....close it...its dies down way too much doin the exact samething when it may be warmer out...
Im lost.....
P.S. It was exactly like this last year (winter) also...thanx.

 

[armanidog]

From their web page: "
Minimum chimney height (feet) 15'
https://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/products/wood-inserts/solution-18-i-insert/#fiche-technique

Your chimney is too short. I would add another 5-6 feet since you have the elevation factor which is aggravating the problem. If the chimney is masonry you could have a mason add extra height but then the liner would be too short. Maybe one of the experts here can find a solution.

 

[mountain man 2]

From their web page: "
Minimum chimney height (feet) 15'
https://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/products/wood-inserts/solution-18-i-insert/#fiche-technique

Your chimney is too short. I would add another 5-6 feet since you have the elevation factor which is aggravating the problem. If the chimney is masonry you could have a mason add extra height but then the liner would be too short. Maybe one of the experts here can find a solution.

Not denying about the chimney height...if the chimney is too short....would it make that much difference in the draft being worse when its colder than warmer outside?

 

[armanidog]

Not denying about the chimney height...if the chimney is too short....would it make that much difference in the draft being worse when its colder than warmer outside?

Yes because you need a stronger vacuum in the chimney to overcome the cold air. When air is warm the molecules are farther apart and the air is lighter so you can get by with a weaker draft.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Yes because you need a stronger vacuum in the chimney to overcome the cold air. When air is warm the molecules are farther apart and the air is lighter so you can get by with a weaker draft.

Not an expert, but this seems contradictory to what is typically said on this site related to draft. Colder outside, the better the draft.

 

[mountain man 2]

Not an expert, but this seems contradictory to what is typically said on this site related to draft. Colder outside, the better the draft.

Thats what i was thinkin....i do appreciate any input...maybe ARMANIDOG has a point...im sure more will chime in..

 

[armanidog]

https://woodheat.org/how-chimneys-work.html

"
When people report problems with the performance of their wood burning systems, the cause is often traced to the chimney. Selecting the correct chimney and designing the layout of the installation is critical to good performance. And knowing how chimneys work is useful in the day-to-day operation of the appliance.

Chimneys operate on the principle that hot air rises because it is less dense than cold air. When a chimney is filled with hot gas, that gas tends to rise because it is less dense than the air outside the house. The rising hot gas creates a pressure difference called draft which draws combustion air into the appliance and expels the exhaust gas outside.

Two factors affect the amount of draft produced by a chimney.

1. Heat: the hotter the gases in the chimney compared to the air outside, the stronger the draft.

2. Height: the taller the chimney, the more draft it will produce at a given temperature difference."

"
Taller Chimneys Produce Stronger Draft
A rule of thumb for minimum height states that the total system height (from the floor the appliance is mounted on to the top of the chimney) should never be less than 4.6 m (15 ft.). "

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The Florida Bungalow Syndrome:

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm



As to what is specifically happening at your house, I suspect atmospheric conditions. Is the wind or barometric pressure changing when you have worse draft?

 

[mountain man 2]

The Florida Bungalow Syndrome:

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm



As to what is specifically happening at your house, I suspect atmospheric conditions. Is the wind or barometric pressure changing when you have worse draft?

I have taken pressure changes n wind direction into consideration.
Just like now..its 40* out...coals in stove this mornin....ash took off within 30 sec....left door ajar for several minutes...close door...burnin great in my book.
Same scenerio when its colder...say 25* or below....takes forever with door ajar.
When its cold out...doesnt matter if its high or low barometric pressure or wind direction.
When its shoulder season...the stove works great until it really start to get colder.
We had a low of 2 degrees several days ago n the stove was a bear to work with....i have been checkin my wood with mm consistantly since the problem...wood is good. Once stove get burning...very hard to get sst up to 550-600.
This is another situation (if it is chimney height problem) so called PROFESSIONALS installed it.
I was goin to it myself but i found out...if anything happens because of installation...they are responsible for seven years...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Tell me about the house. New, or old construction. Air sealing done? We're there any windows cracked open? Kitchen or bathroom fans running?

 

[moresnow]

Same scenerio when its colder...say 25* or below....takes forever with door ajar.

Just a thought. Is there a forced air or any other air consuming/competing system kicking in/running more consistently when you are dropping into these temp ranges?

 

[mountain man 2]

Tell me about the house. New, or old construction. Air sealing done? We're there any windows cracked open? Kitchen or bathroom fans running?

Hows is old...1971...2016..previous owner invested 80,000 bucks in renovation. House is very well insulated...12 ft vaulted ceiling in open kitchen n living room floor plan...new insulation thru out the whole house...we just had metal roof installed. I know we could heat the whole house on no more than 250 gal. of fuel oil a year reguardless how cold.
Windows are all double pain insulated.
When windy no drafts in house.
I have played with window open...even turning on dryer, range hood,etc. No noticable difference...

 

[mountain man 2]

Just a thought. Is there a forced air or any other air consuming/competing system kicking in/running more consistently when you are dropping into these temp ranges?

We have fuel oil foced air...dont think we used 5 gallons since fiiling in july...so..no that wouldnt be a problem.. I am a firm believer ...that in a well insullated home...68*-70* feels just as good if not better than a drafty house at 75* or above. (im a stickler this year for not burnin fuel oil)

 

[moresnow]

We have fuel oil foced air...dont think we used 5 gallons since fiiling in july...so..no that wouldnt be a problem..

Have you considered pulling the cap and temporarily adding a section of single wall to see if that addresses you issue? If you can easily access your chimney it would be worth a shot.

 

[armanidog]

Have you considered pulling the cap and temporarily adding a section of single wall to see if that addresses you issue? If you can easily access your chimney it would be worth a shot.

Good idea. I would brace it to make sure the wind doesn't blow it over. It would probably build up creosote since it would be a cold surface so keep an eye on it.
I just looked and there are couplers for joining flexible liner in case you have to extend your chimney.

 

[mountain man 2]

Have you considered pulling the cap and temporarily adding a section of single wall to see if that addresses you issue? If you can easily access your chimney it would be worth a shot.

I have a piece of sigle wall stainless i could try.....snow on roof now n it would have to be dry up there or i would down lookin up..lol

 

[mountain man 2]

My other question....installers put a 6" top plate for 13"x13" terra cotta (ForeverFlex) n a 6"Rain Cap w/ side screen (ForeverFlex) what would i have to do to permantly n correctly add 2 to 3 ft of double walled pipe??

 

[maple1]

We got a steel roof put on about 8 years ago. No way would I go up there this time of the year. Last time I was up there, not long after it got put on and to clean my chimney for the last time before bringing the new boiler online, I was on my butt before I knew what was happening, taking that last step to the chimney. I stopped sliding when I hit the valley - otherwise it would have been a 20 foot drop. That was with a few scattered water drops on it from melting frost earlier in the day. Guess I stepped on one.

This is indeed a puzzling situation, to me. I would also expect the draft situation to improve with colder temperatures - stack effects should be greater. Mine is always better the colder it is out. Might have missed it - did you try it with a window cracked open on same level as the stove? Sounds like you have a fairly tight house.

 

[brenndatomu]

The Florida Bungalow Syndrome:

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

Yup, this would be my guess too...that, or as has been mentioned already, something else in the house competing for air...crack a window nearby...see what that does.
Have you checked the chimney cap? I have seen the cap screens get plugged up with a smokey ice/creosote mixture when it gets good n cold...

 

[brenndatomu]

I just noticed you said it is fine with the door open...has anyone verified that there is not a mouse nest or something plugging up the stoves air intake/passages? Have even heard of new stoves with packing materials that got in where it was blocking things off...mouse might have helped with that too...this still doesn't explain the warm/cold weather thing though...

 

[maple1]

The Florida Bungalow Syndrome:

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

I'm not grasping how that applies to this situation.

That speaks about stoves being hard to control (over firing), when chimney draft is more than what the stove was tested at?

 

[mountain man 2]

Yup, this would be my guess too...that, or as has been mentioned already, something else in the house competing for air...crack a window nearby...see what that does.
Have you checked the chimney cap? I have seen the cap screens get plugged up with a smokey ice/creosote mixture when it gets good n cold...

To Maple1 also....yes i tried the ole window cracked...no difference. Cant get up there now... snow on it yet n rainin.
I looked at the cap thru my swarovski binocs n it dont look bad at all...checked liner in december...looked good. Last year only cleaned once after season in may...got maybe 2 cups of brown dust out of liner n stove...

 

[maple1]

Whatever is causing this, more chimney height is likely required in any event, since it sounds like you are at the marginal limit for height.

Not sure how you would do that exactly - post 17 confused me a bit. Pics might help. The installer might have a solution?

 

[mountain man 2]

I just noticed you said it is fine with the door open...has anyone verified that there is not a mouse nest or something plugging up the stoves air intake/passages? Have even heard of new stoves with packing materials that got in where it was blocking things off...mouse might have helped with that too...this still doesn't explain the warm/cold weather thing though...

If i said with door open...burns fine...im mistaken...it take way too long to get it goin with door open n once goin....will only burn what i call good with having the door open.After a while i can close door but not satified with the burn. Puzzled also....no creosote build up that consider much..n its good n brown. REALLY WEIRD...I KNOW!

 

[armanidog]

My other question....installers put a 6" top plate for 13"x13" terra cotta (ForeverFlex) n a 6"Rain Cap w/ side screen (ForeverFlex) what would i have to do to permantly n correctly add 2 to 3 ft of double walled pipe??

I saw this video, I would call Forever Flex and ask them if this would work.



I would suggest wrapping insulation around the coupler to prevent a cold spot in the liner.

Also can you post an outside picture of your chimney ?