For the last several years I have been calling the local Parks department when I see downed trees on city property, and sometimes I get the okay to cut some and take it, sometimes not. I spotted a massive Red Oak that toppled over near a creek, so last week I sent an email to the Parks Superintendent telling where it is and asking if I could have some. The email came back that he was out of the office, if you need help call this other guy and gave a number. I called him, told him where the tree was, and he said he'd get me an answer. Well, that was last Friday, so yesterday I sent the "original" guy an email asking again about it, and this time the response was "I cannot let you operate a saw on City property in case you get hurt". I emailed back and said "you have given me permission many times before, maybe you forgot", and told him where the last time and place was. He replied back "call me on my cell phone" so I did, and he said "I can't give you the okay in an email, I'd get my ass in trouble; if you want to cut some up go ahead and do it, if someone questions you about it tell them you've been doing this for years, and you talked to some guys and got the okay. No one will bother you". I said "okay, I just wanted to make sure; should I call you in the future?" and he said "yes". I'm glad that I got the okay, but I thought that was a little strange way to go about it, almost like he's trying to stay out of the picture or something? The whole thing just felt a little shady....
Got permission to cut some wood in an unusual way
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Probably not so shady . . . just an average Joe stuck in a bureaucratic job where someone above him would munch on him and get all legalese on him if he admitted to formally allowing you to take the wood. Rather than let the wood rot, sounds like he is willing to let you take it . . . providing it not come back on to him. Sounds like he's actually a pretty decent guy since the "safe" thing to do job-wise would have been to not let anyone do it . . . sad to say.
That's a great explanation of it and I think you nailed it....it was just a little unusual as I had gotten permission before, maybe he got in trouble sometime and didn't want to go through that again!
Thanks!
Yup, if he gives you formal permission, the municipality can be sued. Even if they win and law suit, the legal costs are astronomic.
So, if you do get hurt, you will probably also get threatened with a fine for trespassing. Otherwise, go get the wood and save the taxpayer the expense of the city cutting the wood.
We live in a strange world that has taken it's weird shape from lawyers.
So, if you do get hurt, you will probably also get threatened with a fine for trespassing. Otherwise, go get the wood and save the taxpayer the expense of the city cutting the wood.
We live in a strange world that has taken it's weird shape from lawyers.
DoubleB
Minister of Fire
I couldn't agree more. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain except legitimately telling himself that he is reasonable and helpful. Guys like this give me hope for civilization. I'm sure he'd appreciate any (unofficial and undocumented) token of appreciation that you can give him.
Jay106n
Minister of Fire
I've been in situations like that before. I have been involved in hang gliding for 38 years, and unless you own your own mountains and valleys below you are generally taking off and landing on land that doesn't belong to you. And let me tell you there are very few individuals or organizations that will give you permission to launch or land from their property, and you can't blame them. Generally it's not that they have anything against hang gliding activity on their property or are really all that concerned that you'll get hurt. In fact lots of people enjoy watching hang gliding activities going on in their backyards. The problem is the moment they give you permission they assume legal responsibility for what happens to you on their property, and if their insurance underwriter ever finds out that they are willingly allowing hang gliding on their property their rates will skyrocket. So, in many places where I've flow or landed on private land the property owners will officially deny they have given any sort of permission for use to use their land, and in some cases even put signs up stating that that particular activity is not allowed there (wink, wink 
), while all the while taking their kids out to watch you fly or land on their property. If you get a chance to talk to them they may say something like "boy that looks like fun, one day I'm gona give it a try. Oh and by the way, you still don't have permission to land here,,,, see ya next week."
So it sounds to me like your got blanket coverage to cut whatever you find on city property now. If anybody tries to stop you or hassle you just call that specific guy and he'll bail you out. Just make sure he knows you by name. If I was you I'd go have a face to face talk with him and confirm your agreement.
), while all the while taking their kids out to watch you fly or land on their property. If you get a chance to talk to them they may say something like "boy that looks like fun, one day I'm gona give it a try. Oh and by the way, you still don't have permission to land here,,,, see ya next week." So it sounds to me like your got blanket coverage to cut whatever you find on city property now. If anybody tries to stop you or hassle you just call that specific guy and he'll bail you out. Just make sure he knows you by name. If I was you I'd go have a face to face talk with him and confirm your agreement.
Ram 1500 with an axe...
Minister of Fire
JP11
Minister of Fire
Saying.. OK go ahead, and EMAILING ok, go ahead are two totally different things. One is deniable if you sue. The other is not.
Sad world we live in. Everyone want to sue instead of taking responsibility for themselves.
JP
Sad world we live in. Everyone want to sue instead of taking responsibility for themselves.
JP
Study sovereign immunity law. If that parks and rec department receives one dime from the state then the state has to give you permission before you can sue them.
Well I got out there today and whacked away at it and got a good amount of Red Oak off the "Beast", also some lighter wood that I at first thought might be Willow but I don't think so as I looked up at the tree from where I believe it came and it isn't Willow...very light, all white inside, very easy to split. Some guy was standing there watching me at one point and I said "hi", and he said "what are you doing?" and I said "uhh....cutting this up for firewood...", and he said "do you need permission to do that?" and I said "I have permission, I've been doing this for years and I talk to the guys in the Parks Department (no names of course), and he said "the reason I'm asking is there are a lot of downed trees right near my house....why should I pay $170 for a cord of wood if I can get some of them?" and I said "right, call the city and ask them, sometimes they say yes, sometimes no". He then proceeded to tell me exactly WHERE this wood is, and that his neighbor used to cut it but got too old, then his neighbor's son cut it too, so I said "do you get along with your neighbors?", he said "yes", is it in a somewhat secluded area and he said "yes", I would just go for it, no one will care, and if by any chance someone DOES question you tell them your neighbor had cut there for years and now you are doing it; I doubt anyone will care, I'd just go for it!" and he said "I will-thanks!"....so let's see what happens! But despite a lot of cars going by and looking at me, no hassles or other questions!
Hickorynut
Feeling the Heat
My park guy, who likes me, says they are not allowed to let anyone run a chainsaw. Occasionally he has sawed some up small enough for me to get. But he has other better buddies too, ha! ha! So it mostly rots if it is in the woods or gets scooped up and put in a big pile to burn. Sucks big time with all the damn county property taxes I pay......
Strange world indeed. 34 years in my law practice taught me that those people who complain most about lawyers and people suing over anything often are the first in line to sue when they are hurt or believe they have been wronged in some way. I learned early on to stay away from those who complain about people not taking personal responsibility for their own actions because the complainers often are the first to blame someone else for their own actions.
Helpful Tip: To blend in and make it so very few folks will even question you wear orange chaps, safety shirt (or vest), steel toed boots and a hard hat or helmet (basically the safety gear that is a good idea to wear anyways). It seems as though safety orange gear is often equated to professionals and my experience in cutting up wood in the city parks (downed wood with permission after a hard snow fall) was that no one really stopped to question me . . . and in fact one person asked how they could report a city traffic light that was out since he assumed I was with the Public Works Department.
D8Chumley
Minister of Fire
as stated it sounds like a CYA thing and no one can blame them. Good score, congrats!
countybrown
Member
Nice score. The crowd here is correct. The city parks manager is trying to prevent making an official record of giving you permission to cut.
He is doing you a favor and letting you do something he technically should not allow. There is also the issue that emails like that are public record and he does not want to set a precedent for others to follow. Soon you will have a pissing match over why one guy can cut, but not three others.
It's a sad world we live in, but everything is controlled by liability issues. Here is my advice: Cut the wood you were given the go ahead on, then thank the city park manger by not saying a word to anybody about it. He gets the wood cleaned up, and you get free wood. Win win.
He is doing you a favor and letting you do something he technically should not allow. There is also the issue that emails like that are public record and he does not want to set a precedent for others to follow. Soon you will have a pissing match over why one guy can cut, but not three others.
It's a sad world we live in, but everything is controlled by liability issues. Here is my advice: Cut the wood you were given the go ahead on, then thank the city park manger by not saying a word to anybody about it. He gets the wood cleaned up, and you get free wood. Win win.
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