Half-ton pickup redux

[SpaceBus]

Yes obviously in some situations you need wider tires for load handling. And i have 2 sets of wheels and tires for my bronco. One 10.5 wide for on road and 1 12.5 for offroad which is usually aired down. When i need to replace the road set i will probably go a little narrow for snow.

Two sets is the way to go. So many folks compromise with all season tires which are equally bad in all seasons. You save more money in the long run with a dedicated set of summer tires and winter tires, on road and offroad, etc.

 

[blades]

wide tires/ bigger tires that lot seem to like putting on their pu's can have adverse affects on the steering geometry. Had a acquaintance that put great big floaters on his chevy Blazer back in the mid 70's ( i think that's the right model name) at any rate that thing bounced around like on balloons and was impossible to use at freeway speeds which back then, around here, were a max of 55 mph.

 

[bholler]

wide tires/ bigger tires that lot seem to like putting on their pu's can have adverse affects on the steering geometry. Had a acquaintance that put great big floaters on his chevy Blazer back in the mid 70's ( i think that's the right model name) at any rate that thing bounced around like on balloons and was impossible to use at freeway speeds which back then, around here, were a max of 55 mph.

Yes which is why i dont run them on my bronco full time. But really that has more to do with the tire construction than width. Also most of the time big wide tires on trucks come with lift kits which raise the center of gravity and mess with steering geometry. Which is why i only run 33 x12.5s for off road the largest i can go without a lift.

 

[Ashful]

Yes, but light trucks can go on more types of terrain than highways with snow. When driving on highways without snow (the condition of highways 99% of the time in on the Eastern Seaboard) wider tires are a benefit. Weight capacity also increases with tire width. I assume this is why six cylinder BMW X5's have steamroller tires.

Good point!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Im not worried about snow performance. Usually dont even engage 4WD unless theres significant snow depth.Something over 8inches. I usually go through most of the winter rarely using 4WD .

 

[bholler]

Im not worried about snow performance. Usually dont even engage 4WD unless theres significant snow depth.Something over 8inches. I usually through most of the winter rarely using 4WD .

Really. I am in 4wd most of the time snow in on the road. Yes i can drive in 2wd in everything but the bronco but it just works better in 4wd. I find when i am in rwd vehicles mainly the work van i need to maintian more speed to make it up hills. I prefer slower and safer. Plus i often have a trailer behind me in work trucks. The bronco just likes to turn around backwards in the snow with 2wd. Even the dlightest throttle input brings it around.

 

[SpaceBus]

Unloaded my truck is spooky on packed snow in 2WD, even with Yokohama MTs. With a decent load in the bed I don't "need" to use 4WD, but the truck feels better. I wish the truck had a true locker, but the torsen works well enough.

 

[bholler]

Unloaded my truck is spooky on packed snow in 2WD, even with Yokohama MTs. With a decent load in the bed I don't "need" to use 4WD, but the truck feels better. I wish the truck had a true locker, but the torsen works well enough.

I dont really like locking the diffs in snow on the road. The truck behaves better unlocked

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Usually too many bare patches and cornering that 4WD just does not like. Yes for the few times when everything is snow covered or when having to drive in unplowed areas but not that often.

 

[Ashful]

I dont really like locking the diffs in snow on the road. The truck behaves better unlocked

Ditto. My AWD cars all run circles around every 4wd pickup I have ever owned, for on-road snow. 4wd is great in deep virgin snow, but 90% - 99% of my snow driving is on half-drifted and rutted mixed conditions, where AWD is much better.

I believe all of the newer RAM trucks have part-time 4wd auto (which I read to be more similar to AWD) and full-lock traditional 4wd. Well, all RAMs except the Outdoorsman model, which is ironically what I had to buy to get the beefed up rear springs and 3.92 rear. I sometimes wish I could have that transfer case, though, as I’m constantly shifting in and out of locked 4wd to manage varying conditions.

 

[bholler]

Ditto. My AWD cars all run circles around every 4wd pickup I have ever owned, for on-road snow. 4wd is great in deep virgin snow, but 90% - 99% of my snow driving is on half-drifted and rutted mixed conditions, where AWD is much better.

I believe all of the newer RAM trucks have part-time 4wd auto (which I read to be more similar to AWD) and full-lock traditional 4wd. Well, all RAMs except the Outdoorsman model, which is ironically what I had to buy to get the beefed up rear springs and 3.92 rear. I sometimes wish I could have that transfer case, though, as I’m constantly shifting in and out of locked 4wd to manage varying conditions.

I am not a fan of the auto 4wd systems I have driven. They just took to long to respond and then engaged hard. But they were both mid 2000 gm systems. But I was referring to locking the axles not the transfer case.

I do agree a good awd will run circles around 4wd in snow

 

[Ashful]

I am not a fan of the auto 4wd systems I have driven. They just took to long to respond and then engaged hard. But they were both mid 2000 gm systems. But I was referring to locking the axles not the transfer case.

I have never had a locker diff on a truck that I drove on-road, I imagine that would be downright scary in snow! I have had lockers on dedicated off-road vehicles, and a full spool in one car, which was a touchy cornering just on wet pavement.

Never drove an auto 4wd, but it sounds like I’m not missing much, then, as that’s my interpretation of what they’re putting in the newer RAMs (other than the Outdoorsman model). I will continue with my old-school 4wd.

BTW, they’ve also gone to push-button transfer case shifter, on the latest generation. My 1975 truck had manual locking hubs and a lever to shift the transfer case, and I could instantly shift between 2wd/4wd with no delay or frustration. My 1995 truck had auto-locking hubs and a lever to shift the transfer case, and there was some frustrating delay in shifting in/out of 4wd, in fact sometimes it wouldn’t shift if the hub solenoids got too wet (like, when it snows). My 2005 truck kept the same system as 1995, but resolved the finicky solenoid issue, overall a good system, but now my 2015 truck is full push button. The delay is back, in fact longer than usual, and it’s far less safe hunting for the right button (of five) to hit on the dash cluster in the dark when sliding on snow at night than grabbing a lever. Of course, with the shifter as a big knob on the dash, right next to the volume control, I’m still having to train myself not to shift the damn thing into reverse at highway speeds, when I want to turn down the volume on the radio.

 

[SpaceBus]

The reason modern AWD cars do better is their advanced traction and stability control systems paired with a lower weight. They typically do better at stopping and handling, which is matched on dry pavement as well. For my situation on a long ish dirt road in an extremely rural area the ability to wade through feet of virgin snow is very useful. I also have chains for when it gets really nasty an icy. Generally I just don't go out in it. My wife's Abarth Cabrio does better on the hard pack, but her car has a set of dedicated snow and summer tires and a limited slip diff.

The best option for snow for a four wheeled vehicle is three differentials each with a limited slip with locking ability. Only a handful of production vehicles have such a system. Transfer cases have their place, usually in extreme off road conditions.

 

[Ashful]

How do you like the Abarth? Tried talking my wife into one, as a “fun car” for her, but she wasn’t biting. They look like a hell of a lot of fun.

Their original US commercial campaign was fantastic.

 

[bholler]

I have never had a locker diff on a truck that I drove on-road, I imagine that would be downright scary in snow! I have had lockers on dedicated off-road vehicles, and a full spool in one car, which was a touchy cornering just on wet pavement.

Never drove an auto 4wd, but it sounds like I’m not missing much, then, as that’s my interpretation of what they’re putting in the newer RAMs (other than the Outdoorsman model). I will continue with my old-school 4wd.

BTW, they’ve also gone to push-button transfer case shifter, on the latest generation. My 1975 truck had manual locking hubs and a lever to shift the transfer case, and I could instantly shift betw rt 6een 2wd/4wd with no delay or frustration. My 1995 truck had auto-locking hubs and a lever to shift the transfer case, and there was some frustrating delay in shifting in/out of 4wd, in fact sometimes it wouldn’t shift if the hub solenoids got too wet (like, when it snows). My 2005 truck kept the same system as 1995, but resolved the finicky solenoid issue, overall a good system, but now my 2015 truck is full push button. The delay is back, in fact longer than usual, and it’s far less safe hunting for the right button (of five) to hit on the dash cluster in the dark when sliding on snow at night than grabbing a lever. Of course, with the shifter as a big knob on the dash, right next to the volume control, I’m still having to train myself not to shift the damn thing into reverse at highway speeds, when I want to turn down the volume on the radio.

Other auto 4wd systems may work better I don't know. I have the whole assortment of shifting systems. My 90 f250 has manual hubs manual transfer case. The 90 bronco has auto hubs and manual transfer case with a spool front and e locker rear. The 06 Chevy has auto hubs with manual case limited slips. And the 17 f250 has auto hubs and transfer case with an e locker rear. But the front hubs on that can be locked manually which also locks the front diff. They all work fine in the snow in 4wd as long as you don't lock the diffs. Well I haven't driven the new truck in snow yet but I have driven one with the same setup and it was fine.

But the best in the snow was my old and GMC safari work van. That would just go anywhere. My wife's awd escape is pretty darn good to. But you can't do donuts lol. But even the new truck won't let you turn off the traction control completely. Even if you push the button to turn it off it just chirps the tires then cuts power. It's just no fun.

 

[SpaceBus]

Other auto 4wd systems may work better I don't know. I have the whole assortment of shifting systems. My 90 f250 has manual hubs manual transfer case. The 90 bronco has auto hubs and manual transfer case with a spool front and e locker rear. The 06 Chevy has auto hubs with manual case limited slips. And the 17 f250 has auto hubs and transfer case with an e locker rear. But the front hubs on that can be locked manually which also locks the front diff. They all work fine in the snow in 4wd as long as you don't lock the diffs. Well I haven't driven the new truck in snow yet but I have driven one with the same setup and it was fine.

But the best in the snow was my old and GMC safari work van. That would just go anywhere. My wife's awd escape is pretty darn good to. But you can't do donuts lol. But even the new truck won't let you turn off the traction control completely. Even if you push the button to turn it off it just chirps the tires then cuts power. It's just no fun.

Always on traction nannies are the worst! It's good to see that after decades trucks are finally available with factory lockers. Does anyone make an electronic or air locking torsen diff? That would be the best of both worlds. Spool diffs are really spooky on the road, a friend of mine had one in a CJ7 and I thought we would die on dry pavement. I think that vehicle might have had more traction than most race cars, but always at the worst time. How do you like wheeling with the spool? Most of my wheeling has been done with torsen diff equipped vehicles, never had the luxury of a locker.

 

[bholler]

Always on traction nannies are the worst! It's good to see that after decades trucks are finally available with factory lockers. Does anyone make an electronic or air locking torsen diff? That would be the best of both worlds. Spool diffs are really spooky on the road, a friend of mine had one in a CJ7 and I thought we would die on dry pavement. I think that vehicle might have had more traction than most race cars, but always at the worst time. How do you like wheeling with the spool? Most of my wheeling has been done with torsen diff equipped vehicles, never had the luxury of a locker.

You would have to change out the whole carrier to go with an air or e locker. I am sure someone makes one for your axle. But they arent cheap which is why i have a spool in the front. Spools are good offroad a little noisy but they work well. On the front it doesnt seem to cause as many issues on road in the snow as they do in the rear. If i was building a dedicated off roader i wouldnt bother with a locker. I would just run a spool. But they arent very good on road.

 

[SpaceBus]

How do you like the Abarth? Tried talking my wife into one, as a “fun car” for her, but she wasn’t biting. They look like a hell of a lot of fun.

Their original US commercial campaign was fantastic.

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Her car is a Cabrio, which I think is really requisite for this car. I'm sure the hatchback is a bit quicker and a tiny bit more rigid, but having the top down is so worth it. It's an Italian car, so weird things have broken on it. The rubber exterior trim/molding is terrible and deteriorates very fast in the sun, the window regulators suck, and the tension clips in the soft top like to break (plastic). Otherwise it's awesome and I am never sad to drive the thing. Some day I'm going to get a tuning device and start messing with fuel and boost along with some other goodies. Realistically I think anything over 250 WHP would be overkill and unusable. Most men give me funny looks when I drive it, but some folks know what it is and they always want to chat. The car handles quite well, but I'm sure a Mini S/JCW would be objectively superior and a tough choice between the two. The Abarth is just so fun and never feels serious or fatiguing. The exhaust is amazing, but pretty loud. There are no mufflers, just cats and the turbo to reduce volume. The cabrio sacrifices a bit of practicality for a giant sunroof, but we have my Dually for trips that need payload capacity.

 

[bholler]

Toyota has had lockers at least on their suvs for quite a while i dont know about their trucks. None i have had came with one. All my toyotas were off road beaters so i just welded them

 

[bholler]

I also would not pay for an aftermarket locker unless you do a fair ammount of serious offroading. A limited slip works well enough for just about everything.

 

[SpaceBus]

I also would not pay for an aftermarket locker unless you do a fair ammount of serious offroading. A limited slip works well enough for just about everything.

I don't plan on it, no need in my case. If I get another off road vehicle it will be a Ural Patrol 2WD. I really have come to prefer doing off roading with small stuff. Even Jeeps can be a bear in the woods. If I lived out west then things would be different. We have 25 acres and it's all super tight. My tractor is a tight fit at 65" wide.

 

[bholler]

I don't plan on it, no need in my case. If I get another off road vehicle it will be a Ural Patrol 2WD. I really have come to prefer doing off roading with small stuff. Even Jeeps can be a bear in the woods. If I lived out west then things would be different. We have 25 acres and it's all super tight. My tractor is a tight fit at 65" wide.

I generally go offroading at off road parks with trails made ror trucks. Or on drivable trails in state parks.

 

[SpaceBus]

I generally go offroading at off road parks with trails made ror trucks. Or on drivable trails in state parks.

Yes, that's what I did in NC along with military trails (allegedly). Not much stuff like that around here, but there are loads of snowmobile and ATV trails. I find wheeling vehicles that can be used on road to be much more expensive and hard on the vehicle. Purpose built vehicles like side by sides and ATVs just handle the abuse much better. The only thing I like about taking out Jeeps and stuff like that is room for dogs.

 

[bholler]

Yes, that's what I did in NC along with military trails (allegedly). Not much stuff like that around here, but there are loads of snowmobile and ATV trails. I find wheeling vehicles that can be used on road to be much more expensive and hard on the vehicle. Purpose built vehicles like side by sides and ATVs just handle the abuse much better. The only thing I like about taking out Jeeps and stuff like that is room for dogs.

I find side by sides and atvs much more expensive i have about $4000 in my bronco now and i can drive it every day as well if i want.

 

[bholler]

And honestly i have had tons of fun with beater compact trucks that i have bought for well under $1000. A day or two with a welder and a couple hundred dollars in steel stock to make sure they dont break in half and you can beat on them untill they die. I have done that with 3 tacomas. A couple nissans and a ranger. They usually last pretty long. You probably have to buy a set of tires but you can usuall find a used set of all terrains and then transfer them to the new truck.

The one taco got rolled enough times i had to cut the roof off and make a cage because you couldt sit in it any more but it kept running.