Half-ton pickup redux

[Seasoned Oak]

Just spoke with a fellow that has a 2003 Chevy diesel 3/4T truck and said similar things about it. He gets 22 mpg at 70mph, 17mpg towing his boat and with the camper I'm looking to buy on his truck. His truck has 206K on it and he won't part with it.

My son has a Duramax diesel. Fabulous Truck in every way but one. He now needs head gaskets. I could put 3 new engines in my gas engine silverado for what it will cost him for a head gasket job. 6- 8 K Consequently the truck is setting in his garage for the last 6 months. Even just injectors are a $2K job. Unless you do some serious towing, im not sure a diesel is the right choice.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

My son has a Duramax diesel. Fabulous Truck in every way but one. He now needs head gaskets. I could put 3 new engines in my gas engine silverado for what it will cost him for a head gasket job. 6- 8 K Consequently the truck is setting in his garage for the last 6 months. Even just injectors are a $2K job. Unless you do some serious towing, im not sure a diesel is the right choice.

Agreed. Most people I see with diesels use them like a car. Not all, but most.

Today I went wood-cutting in my lowly gas powered F-150. I came back with a 2600# load of nice alder. I saw one other gas truck, a US Border Patrol pick-up hauling a very large box trailer up the mountain canyon I was cutting in. I'm sure it had sophisticated surveillance equipment (radar, infra-red telescopes, etc) inside as this road is only a mile from Canada. The big trailer looked loaded. I saw four trucks all morning, two diesels and two gas (one was mine). The two diesels both had young guys in them out for a joyride, empty beds, no trailers. You don't need a truck to do that (let alone a diesel). I could hear them coming from a mile away (the Border Patrol truck was stealthy). They left a stinky black haze that blanketed the canyon for five minutes. The Border Patrol truck left no discernable odor.

Todays score for trucks that were actually doing real work:

Gas 100%
Diesel 0%

 

[blades]

7.3 is a good eng. but some issues due arise Crank sensor was an early one. injector wiring is in the head gaskets around $750 for the gaskets. Turbo bearings and gate. Also Ford stopped making the GEM module for these and they are dang near un-obtainum from anywhere. As to the box portion on all newer trucks -paper thin particularly the head of the box. I have a 99 f350 v10 standard cab 4:77 gears 8mpg and it don't care if its loaded or empty. does everything a oil burner does except heavy load long haul mpg
06 f250 extra cab 5.4L 3:7x gears about 12 around town, full load and it is working hard.
F2/350 heavier chassis and components bigger brakes than 150.
I had a 99 150 4.6 v8 forget the gears it did serve me well 180k with only normal maint issues - got sent down the road due to the red death we suffer with around here .
All three are 4wd - the 250 I am the third owner and it was not properly maintained prior to me, so have some excessive issues- front suspension and drive train as compared to the 350. Both have same mileage on them apx.150k.
Ford gas units imperative to change oil every 3k, variable cam timing system picky about that. ( I only run synthetic )
GM is changing over on the larger v8 to VCT as well I do not know what year that starts to appear vs the push rod blocks. Basically same as Ford system so oil caution also applies there. GM and Dodge seem to have a problem in the fuel vapor e-vap systems as I am seeing more problems in that area appearing around 50K miles.
I have found that it is best to just replace all coils and plugs when random misfires start appearing - a little pricey but saves multiple trips for the same problem to a dealership or your own time. Cop systems Di-electrics start breaking down about 50-60k. Part of this is running plugs to 100k, that center electrode is almost non-existant by then. Evidently causes a higher draw on the coils? just a guess nothing to back that up, but doing so has saved me from tearing hair out chasing the problem.
My observations from the random mix of stuff that comes through my shop- I am not an auto service center.

 

[Highbeam]

7.3 is a good eng. but some issues due arise Crank sensor was an early one. injector wiring is in the head gaskets around $750 for the gaskets. Turbo bearings and gate. Also Ford stopped making the GEM module for these and they are dang near un-obtainum from anywhere. .

Sorry Blades, I own a 7.3 and am familiar with them. The crank sensor is a little push in sensor that takes a 10mm wrench to swap out if needed on the side of the road. Ford did a recall and the new ones don't fail. The injector wiring is under the valve covers and has nothing to do with the head gaskets. The wiring can fail and replacement is cheap, around 50$ per side, and all you have to do is remove the valve cover for it. Turbo bearings are not a common failure (it's just a bushing with oil), and the wastegate never fails. Maybe you are thinking about the 6.0?

I own a diesel and do enjoy it but I got a good deal. If replacing my current truck I would probably go gas.

 

[Bad LP]

From what I've read a stock a 2500HD 6.0L with the 4.10 gears is lucky to get over 13mpg. The folks with the 3.73 rear are doing a bit better.

2015 2500HD w/4.10's empty. Tire pressure at 45PSI.

This mornings ride was 280 miles from 0400 to 0832. What I saw from the display in the last 50 miles. The high was high speed back roads 35-65 and the low was highway running 72-78. Hit more traffic than normal so that prevented the low from dropping into the 12's when I'm running up to 85-90.

High average 16.4

Low average 14.4

Pulling the 11,000 pound boat dumps the mileage into 6's.

 

[begreen]

That's decent, not sure why the national average is lower. Lead feet or they are all driving way over the speed limit.

 

[Highbeam]

That's decent, not sure why the national average is lower. Lead feet or they are all driving way over the speed limit.

The on-board computers are notoriously inaccurate. I log each tank fill, miles driven, price per gallon, and mpg calculated with a calculator. Never trust the lie-o-meter!

 

[Bad LP]

The on-board computers are notoriously inaccurate. I log each tank fill, miles driven, price per gallon, and mpg calculated with a calculator. Never trust the lie-o-meter!

Explain this.

I know my normal trip is 275 miles to be exact. I just filled up with 18.26 gallons at 4:00PM. HOWEVER

I had to ditch my normal route home this morning due to traffic. I'm sure this added miles to the trip. I also drove to lunch and that is 10 miles round trip and I just went to Staples and filled up after so lets add another 5 miles.

It's fair to say I am a lot closer to going over 300 miles today so lets keep it at 300 miles.

300 miles at 18.26 gallons is 16.42 MPG. You're right The computer is off but in my favor. Even if I leave the known normal drive mileage alone and use my afternoon fuel purchase after the days driving I still got 15.06 MPG. I'm still happy with that.

 

[Highbeam]

Explain this.

I know my normal trip is 275 miles to be exact. I just filled up with 18.26 gallons at 4:00PM. HOWEVER

I had to ditch my normal route home this morning due to traffic. I'm sure this added miles to the trip. I also drove to lunch and that is 10 miles round trip and I just went to Staples and filled up after so lets add another 5 miles.

It's fair to say I am a lot closer to going over 300 miles today so lets keep it at 300 miles.

300 miles at 18.26 gallons is 16.42 MPG. You're right The computer is off but in my favor. Even if I leave the known normal drive mileage alone and use my afternoon fuel purchase after the days driving I still got 15.06 MPG. I'm still happy with that.

Explain what? Sometimes the sun even shines on a dog's butt. If you want real data you need to fill to the same level each time and use real numbers in a real calculator. Another fun fact is that speedometers (and therefor odometers) are often not accurate at all. Need to verify with GPS or the freeway "speedometer check stations".

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Explain what? Sometimes the sun even shines on a dog's butt. If you want real data you need to fill to the same level each time and use real numbers in a real calculator. Another fun fact is that speedometers (and therefor odometers) are often not accurate at all. Need to verify with GPS or the freeway "speedometer check stations".

True, speedometers tend to read fast and odometers tend to read too high. But even though they are both driven off the same gear (for mechanical speedo's) it's possible for the two to be inaccurate in different directions due to the way mechanical speedometers convert rotary motion into a static display. I'm not sure if digital speedometers have the same issues or not.

 

[Bad LP]

Wow!

My GPS speed reads the same as the truck on two devices.

Some of you guys are wound way to tight.

If I need to be concerned over a few miles I'll fire up the HP 11C and save every shred of paper to prove my point. Fact is I clearly stated my point with facts and I will not go into battle over something so stupid. (My father was a 38 year software engineer for missile systems guidance) I know how engineers live with a slide rule.

A snap shot of my drive today dismisses your theory on inaccuracy of on board systems. That is of course taking my word versus obtaining my head implanted micro GPS device reading a whatchmacallit only trying to prove to your post that I'm lying.

I burn wood. I like to burn wood. I love the work (sometimes) of burning wood. My body needs the work out of burning wood.

I would never buy a half ton rated pick up again.

 

[Grateful11]

Wife has a Tundra with a 5.7L V8 4.30 rear end and 4WD. 5000 miles on it now and it's averaging 15.3 mpg by a calculator not the computer, computer says 15.9 mpg. She does a fair amount of hauling feed and seed and towing loads of hay and fertilizer and calves to the sale barn. She's towed as much as 8500# and said it tows better than any truck she's ever had. She grew on a dairy so she's driven about everything out there.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Wife has a Tundra with a 5.7L V8 4.30 rear end and 4WD. 5000 miles on it now and it's averaging 15.3 mpg by a calculator not the computer, computer says 15.9 mpg. She does a fair amount of hauling feed and seed and towing loads of hay and fertilizer and calves to the sale barn. She's towed as much as 8500# and said it tows better than any truck she's ever had. She grew on a dairy so she's driven about everything out there.

People who want their MPG numbers to reflect actual consumption need to correct for odometer errors whether using the trip computer or manually calculating. Those who just want a ballpark figure and don't care if it's off by 5% or even 10% can just ignore the built-in inaccuracies. Most, but not all, trip computers I've used and double-checked for accuracy are somewhat optimistic. And any odometer optimism adds on top of that. There is a 5 mile odometer check on the highway near my home that I use to check odometer accuracy for any new vehicle I buy.

So, yeah, it's true. Sometimes the numbers reported are pure fantasy and, if the odometer is optimistic even manually calculating your mpg won't uncover that error.

 

[Jazzberry]

I put well over 200,000 miles on a used 2001 Dodge 2500 Cummins and sold it for almost what I paid for it. Don't even want to tell you the mpg I was getting cause you wouldn't believe it. Had a smile on my face every time I started it up. Half ton pickups don't come close to that thing no matter what egos say. Funny thing is I am a devout Chevy guy currently with a half ton Chevy that I think is a great truck also. Even though I am happy with my 1/2 ton it will never measure up to my old Dodge Diesel.

 

[Highbeam]

Wife has a Tundra with a 5.7L V8 4.30 rear end and 4WD. 5000 miles on it now and it's averaging 15.3 mpg by a calculator not the computer, computer says 15.9 mpg. She does a fair amount of hauling feed and seed and towing loads of hay and fertilizer and calves to the sale barn. She's towed as much as 8500# and said it tows better than any truck she's ever had. She grew on a dairy so she's driven about everything out there.

The new half tons are coming with very high ratings for power, towing, and hauling plus get very good mpg while empty for some reason. I look at the tow ratings of some of these new half tons and find that they are actually higher than the 10,000 lb tow rating on my F350 diesel! Payload capacity is often close as well, my F350 has a 2400# capacity using real numbers from a scale compared to the GVWR.

Half tons from this last decade are not the same as half tons from the 90s. Also worth noting is that even the current F350 has MUCH higher ratings than my 2000 model year truck. They've all been "super sized". Even the fuel tanks are much larger across the board.

Most of the mpg advantage of the diesel is now gone through a combination of choking the diesel with emissions garbage and the technology for gas engines improving. I don't expect the premium on resale for used diesels will continue so recouping that extra purchase cost for the diesel will no longer be so easy. I've also seen repair bills for my diesel driving friends that are well over 6000$ for something silly like injectors that bolt onto the top of the engine. I worry about the day when a minor repair will cause my beloved diesel truck to be "not worth fixing".

 

[Squirrely]

This is quite the thread resurrection! Shows how trucks are a perennially popular topic.

I've had good luck with small Toyota pickups, and always buy the cheapest single cab new, with a small engine, manual transmission, and no options so as to get the best mileage.

Greg

 

[Squirrely]

This is quite the thread resurrection! Shows how trucks are a perennially popular topic.

I've had good luck with small Toyota pickups, and always buy the cheapest single cab new, with a small engine, manual transmission, and no options so as to get the best mileage.

Greg

 

[brenndatomu]

I look at the tow ratings of some of these new half tons and find that they are actually higher than the 10,000 lb tow rating on my F350 diesel! Payload capacity is often close as well, my F350 has a 2400# capacity using real numbers from a scale compared to the GVWR.

Half tons from this last decade are not the same as half tons from the 90s. Also worth noting is that even the current F350 has MUCH higher ratings than my 2000 model year truck. They've all been "super sized". Even the fuel tanks are much larger across the board.

Yep. Just bought a new F250 at work, 10k # GVWR. That truck in the late 90s was 8600 # GVWR. F350 (SRW) was 9k, had to go to a F350 DRW to get 10k or up.
This new truck has a very firm ride...might loosen up with a few miles...dunno.

 

[Grateful11]

The new half tons are coming with very high ratings for power, towing, and hauling plus get very good mpg while empty for some reason. I look at the tow ratings of some of these new half tons and find that they are actually higher than the 10,000 lb tow rating on my F350 diesel! Payload capacity is often close as well, my F350 has a 2400# capacity using real numbers from a scale compared to the GVWR.

Half tons from this last decade are not the same as half tons from the 90s. Also worth noting is that even the current F350 has MUCH higher ratings than my 2000 model year truck. They've all been "super sized". Even the fuel tanks are much larger across the board.

Most of the mpg advantage of the diesel is now gone through a combination of choking the diesel with emissions garbage and the technology for gas engines improving. I don't expect the premium on resale for used diesels will continue so recouping that extra purchase cost for the diesel will no longer be so easy. I've also seen repair bills for my diesel driving friends that are well over 6000$ for something silly like injectors that bolt onto the top of the engine. I worry about the day when a minor repair will cause my beloved diesel truck to be "not worth fixing".

Toyota uses an SAE standard for tow rating. Chevy, Ford and Dodge use their own standard for rating towing capacity. Her Tundra has a 38 gallon fuel tank, not too bad at $2/gallon but I hate to see it when it goes back up north $3.

"Toyota has certifications for its entire towing-equipped lineup, including every Toyota pick-up truck, SUV, and minivan. Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J2807 and has certification including a comprehensive test of the vehicle’s engine, transmission, cooling system, axles and structural rigidity to handle a rated load so customers will know that rated Toyota vehicles have survived the industry’s harshest test methods. "

 

[Highbeam]

Toyota uses an SAE standard for tow rating. Chevy, Ford and Dodge use their own standard for rating towing capacity. Her Tundra has a 38 gallon fuel tank, not too bad at $2/gallon but I hate to see it when it goes back up north $3.

"Toyota has certifications for its entire towing-equipped lineup, including every Toyota pick-up truck, SUV, and minivan. Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J2807 and has certification including a comprehensive test of the vehicle’s engine, transmission, cooling system, axles and structural rigidity to handle a rated load so customers will know that rated Toyota vehicles have survived the industry’s harshest test methods. "

38 gallons is really nice when you get 10 mpg. You can actually go 350 miles which is a 6 hour tow. Don't try and tell me that "you have to stop to pee anyway" because stopping to pee is easy. Stopping to refuel while towing a 35 foot long, 12' tall trailer, in an unfamiliar fuel station is a major pain. It cost the same to fill the 38 gallon tank twice as it does to fill my 24 gallon diesel tank three times. Just way easier to only do it twice!

Tow ratings are somewhat fake and not a real rating since it isn't stamped into the door jamb but however it's calculated the tow ratings have been rising fast for all full sized trucks.

 

[Woody5506]

I drive a '16 Silverado Duramax LTZ which is a company truck but my primary vehicle. The fact is, nobody needs a truck for it's full potential 100% of the time. All I can say is when I show up to haul something I don't think twice about weight. It's been nothing but solid and rides like a Cadillac compared to the 07 GMC duramax I drove before it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

This is quite the thread resurrection! Shows how trucks are a perennially popular topic.

I've had good luck with small Toyota pickups, and always buy the cheapest single cab new, with a small engine, manual transmission, and no options so as to get the best mileage.

Greg

Hows the rust ? Mine was shot at 6yrs old.

 

[Squirrely]

Hows the rust ? Mine was shot at 6yrs old.

Toyotas do have frame rust problems, but there's no snow or salted roads in Southern California. I bought this Toyota new in 1996. The pic is when I sold it in 2013. The frame and body were both rust free.





Greg

 

[begreen]

I drive a '16 Silverado Duramax LTZ which is a company truck but my primary vehicle. The fact is, nobody needs a truck for it's full potential 100% of the time. All I can say is when I show up to haul something I don't think twice about weight. It's been nothing but solid and rides like a Cadillac compared to the 07 GMC duramax I drove before it.

I ended up getting a Ford F150 with the heavy duty suspension and trailer package. You are sure right, these trucks are nothing like those of even just a decade ago. They are much quieter and a lot more comfortable. Unloaded it gets about the same mileage as my 4cyl old Ford Ranger which is astounding considering the difference in weight and payload. I've had about a ton load on the truck and it barely grunts. Lots of extra power from just a 3.5L six.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Is that new BG? 2017?