Harman 52i owners only (I think)

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wally1234

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Sep 5, 2010
160
CT
Feed limit -

What does everyone have their feed limit to?
Mine is on the default 4 setting. However I see a bunch of pellets in the burn pot.. I wonder if my setting is too high. What direction lowers the speed?

If assume going from 4 and lower (3,2,1) would slow the feed. Am I correct in saying this?
 
To a point. The stove will adjust the feed rate when in temp mode on its own. I have the newest 52i and I was told by the Harman installer that the setting used to be "4" but for the newest version of the 52i, "3" is the recommended setting.
 
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Do you know if going from 4 to 3 decreases or increase the feed limit? I assume decrease, I'm thinking of dropping down to 3.

I assume I have the newest 52i, it's the one they show on their site.
 
It decreases the feed time if you go from 4 to 3. However, the real question (in my mind) is where is the ash line and are you having pellets (un-burnt or 1/2 burnt) being pushed out of the pot? I set mine for 4 for long pellets and 3 or 3+ for short pellets. Also you will have a bunch of pellets in the burn potat and for a short time after ignition, so make sure you aren't looking at that. also, sometimes lowering the feed rate too much can have an adverse effect on pellet usage (I know, doesn't seem to make sense, but it can)
 
Stove temp 3. Freezing cold, I move to 4.
 
Here we go ago again, The most misunderstood dial at the forum, The Harman feed rate dial !!
 
OP, do you have pellets spilling over? If not your setting is fine and you may starve the stove. 4 is an UP TO setting not a gauranteed amount of pellets coming out.
 
So lower it is the pellets come out.. And your saying this may starve the stove as in put out less heat?
 
So lower it is the pellets come out.. And your saying this may starve the stove as in put out less heat?
Can you please answer a simple question so that people can help? Do you have pellets spilling out of your burnpot? If the pellets are all being burned then you are probably fine.
 
Do you know if going from 4 to 3 decreases or increase the feed limit? I assume decrease, I'm thinking of dropping down to 3.

I assume I have the newest 52i, it's the one they show on their site.

You won't hurt anything turning it down to "3". Give it a try and let us know what happens.
 
So lower it is the pellets come out.. And your saying this may starve the stove as in put out less heat?
Ok you obviously either have not read the sticky at the top of the page here about how Harmans work or it is not resonating with you, has not registered. Same with the included manual and instructions. It's ok, that seems to be normal around here.

Harman stoves through the ESP continually change feed rates *at will*, up to and including your high limit feed setting. In this shoulder season it's unlikely the stove is trying to put out max output for any amount of time. It's only during max output that the stove will feed at your limit setting. So ultimately right now it doesn't matter what you set the limit at regarding feed rate, 3 or 4 will work fine, so will 5.. This is not a manual feed system, your stove may well often be feeding itself at level 1 and 2 often this time of year. A good indication of feed being used is size of flame. If your flame is moderate in height, not totally filling your fire box then it is not being fed anywhere near max settings. If your flame is low, maybe even for hours at a time in mid day, it may even have gone into a maintenance burn rate, probably level 1.

"The one inch Burn Line "/ash line and it's total misunderstanding : The one inch burn line is a test procedure to set max feed rate for a given pellet at.. It's done at max temp setting ( turn the stove all the way up to the maximum heat range and plan on a good 30-40 minute burn) and you may have to open windows. After about 20 minutes of burning at maximum output start turning up the feed in 5-10 minute intervals until such a time as it achieves an ash line around 1/2"-1" from the edge of the burn pot. That is your max feed for that pellet. Note that some super low ash pellets may have a hard time getting a line to form as the very little and light ash is blown off the pot. No problem with all the crappy heavy ash box store pellets. When I conducted this test on my P61 using LaCrete pellets I ended up at just over feed rate 5. The manual says that feed rate between 3 and 4 is a good starting point as I recall. But those rates obviously are not optimum for max heat output for my P61 when burning LaCrete. Will the stove ever hit feed rate 5 on it's own ? Maybe on a cold winters night when playing catch up from a cold house . But my stove never ever has used pellets at the rate it did during that test, in that 35 minute test it went through 1/4 of a hopper of pellets. I ask you, has your stove ever used 1/4 of a hopper of pellets in 35 minutes ? Then it isn't running at max output to heat your house and neither is mine. And I ran that winter at feed rate 5 !! I'm sure it touched that feed rate periodically but not for any length of time. Last winter I ran with the rate set between 4 and 4-1/4. I tried 3 , as the weather got colder the stove took longer and longer to recover.

There are many stoves out there where you set the feed at say 3 then that is what the stove runs at. You have to manually set the feed. Harman is not one of them. By the same token, you cut the max feed capability back and then you turn your P 61 ( 61,000 btu max output) into a P50 ( 50,000 btu) or likewise, your 52i into a 40i by limiting it's available max output. For the most part none of these stoves run at max to heat or houses but they may need to to catch heating needs up. And then they throttle back, that's what the up and down flame thing is all about that we mysteriously watch our Harmans do.
 
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Can you please answer a simple question so that people can help? Do you have pellets spilling out of your burnpot? If the pellets are all being burned then you are probably fine.

I don't have pellets spilling out, although the burnout would be filled with pellets and yes they are burning. I was thinking it was over feeding.


Alternative heat - I read your post but don't have time to respond yet ...but I certainly will later. Thank you for the feed back
 
I don't have pellets spilling out, although the burnout would be filled with pellets and yes they are burning. I was thinking it was over feeding.


Alternative heat - I read your post but don't have time to respond yet ...but I certainly will later. Thank you for the feed back
That's fine.
 
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Ok you obviously either have not read the sticky at the top of the page here about how Harmans work or it is not resonating with you, has not registered. Same with the included manual and instructions. It's ok, that seems to be normal around here.

Harman stoves through the ESP continually change feed rates *at will*, up to and including your high limit feed setting. In this shoulder season it's unlikely the stove is trying to put out max output for any amount of time. It's only during max output that the stove will feed at your limit setting. So ultimately right now it doesn't matter what you set the limit at regarding feed rate, 3 or 4 will work fine, so will 5.. This is not a manual feed system, your stove may well often be feeding itself at level 1 and 2 often this time of year. A good indication of feed being used is size of flame. If your flame is moderate in height, not totally filling your fire box then it is not being fed anywhere near max settings. If your flame is low, maybe even for hours at a time in mid day, it may even have gone into a maintenance burn rate, probably level 1.

"The one inch Burn Line "/ash line and it's total misunderstanding : The one inch burn line is a test procedure to set max feed rate for a given pellet at.. It's done at max temp setting ( turn the stove all the way up to the maximum heat range and plan on a good 30-40 minute burn) and you may have to open windows. After about 20 minutes of burning at maximum output start turning up the feed in 5-10 minute intervals until such a time as it achieves an ash line around 1/2"-1" from the edge of the burn pot. That is your max feed for that pellet. Note that some super low ash pellets may have a hard time getting a line to form as the very little and light ash is blown off the pot. No problem with all the crappy heavy ash box store pellets. When I conducted this test on my P61 using LaCrete pellets I ended up at just over feed rate 5. The manual says that feed rate between 3 and 4 is a good starting point as I recall. But those rates obviously are not optimum for max heat output for my P61 when burning LaCrete. Will the stove ever hit feed rate 5 on it's own ? Maybe on a cold winters night when playing catch up from a cold house . But my stove never ever has used pellets at the rate it did during that test, in that 35 minute test it went through 1/4 of a hopper of pellets. I ask you, has your stove ever used 1/4 of a hopper of pellets in 35 minutes ? Then it isn't running at max output to heat your house and neither is mine. And I ran that winter at feed rate 5 !! I'm sure it touched that feed rate periodically but not for any length of time. Last winter I ran with the rate set between 4 and 4-1/4. I tried 3 , as the weather got colder the stove took longer and longer to recover.

There are many stoves out there where you set the feed at say 3 then that is what the stove runs at. You have to manually set the feed. Harman is not one of them. By the same token, you cut the max feed capability back and then you turn your P 61 ( 61,000 btu max output) into a P50 ( 50,000 btu) or likewise, your 52i into a 40i by limiting it's available max output. For the most part none of these stoves run at max to heat or houses but they may need to to catch heating needs up. And then they throttle back, that's what the up and down flame thing is all about that we mysteriously watch our Harmans do.

1. Guilty.. I didn't read the sticky :-(. Forgot there were stickies till you mentioned it which I will visit
2. Can't say I recall going thru 1/4 pellets in 35 min
3. I have noticed many times my flame going very high .. Up to the top of the medallion. I have my temp set around 73 and it did go thru a big chunk of pellets, faster than I thought. Looked like little more than a bag a day.
4. Hhhmmm interesting that the harman owners guide doesn't mention about the feed in that detail. Here's is what I understand per the guide...

- when you turn the unit on, for the first 10 min the unit will run full blast then throttle down to the temp you set.

- as you mentioned (and didn't know this) the feed limit you set does not take into effect until the unit burns at max (when it's really cold) then it goes at your desired feed rate.. Other than that.. touching this setting will not make a difference.


Does that sound about right?
 
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1. Guilty.. I didn't read the sticky :-(. Forgot there were stickies till you mentioned it which I will visit
2. Can't say I recall going thru 1/4 pellets in 35 min
3. I have noticed many times my flame going very high .. Up to the top of the medallion. I have my temp set around 73 and it did go thru a big chunk of pellets, faster than I thought. Looked like little more than a bag a day.
4. Hhhmmm interesting that the harman owners guide doesn't mention about the feed in that detail. Here's is what I understand per the guide...

- when you turn the unit on, for the first 10 min the unit will run full blast then throttle down to the temp you set.

- as you mentioned (and didn't know this) the feed limit you set does not take into effect until the unit burns at max (when it's really cold) then it goes at your desired feed rate.. Other than that.. touching this setting will not make a difference.
Does that sound about right?

1. Guilty.. I didn't read the sticky :-(. Forgot there were stickies till you mentioned it which I will visit Lots of good info in those stickies.
2. Can't say I recall going thru 1/4 pellets in 35 min You won't unless you run it wide open - there is a stickie on this.
3. I have noticed many times my flame going very high .. Up to the top of the medallion. I have my temp set around 73 and it did go thru a big chunk of pellets, faster than I thought. Looked like little more than a bag a day. Sounds like normal consumption, same as what I am experiencing at present.
4. Hhhmmm interesting that the harman owners guide doesn't mention about the feed in that detail. Here's is what I understand per the guide...

- when you turn the unit on, for the first 10 min the unit will run full blast then throttle down to the temp you set. Not necessarily full blast but will run high until your set temperature is met and will then maintain that temperature - info in aforementioned stickies.

- as you mentioned (and didn't know this) the feed limit you set does not take into effect until the unit burns at max (when it's really cold) then it goes at your desired feed rate.. Other than that.. touching this setting will not make a difference. Just set it and forget it - see stickies and search threads for any further info.


Does that sound about right? Yes, enjoy your stove.
 
What I have found on my new P61A with the feed rate dial...

The lower the feed rate, the less "ON" cycle per minute the auger runs.... Regardless of what the temperature (numeral, stove mode) dial is set to.

In order to get the slowest burn, the feed rate HAS to be set lower. For example, if the ambient outside temperature is above 30*F, my P61A will maintain house temperature at 66* on settings Feed:1, #1. Stove surface temperature sits at 260-270*F on the side of the stove about 3" down from the top surface.

If I leave the number dial (temperature control) on *1*, and set the feed rate to 2, the auger "ON" time will increase by about 3-4 seconds. The side surface temperature will also increase by about 20*, even though the temperature dial remains on *1*.

Now.... What I do is....If I need more heat, I move the feed rate to *2* and raise the temperature/number dial to *2* also.

What is strange is that everything I have read on this subject points to the feed rate as only being a maximum rate at which the auger will cycle. Since the ESP target is only supposed to be set with the temp/number control knob. Therefore, the auger "ON" time should stay the same whether the feed rate is on 1 or 4.... unless you command a higher stove temperature setting. Yet my findings say otherwise.

If my stove temperature dial is set on *1* with feed rate on 1, I get a 12 second "ON" cycle, 48 second "OFF" cycle from the auger. If I increase the feed rate up 4, the auger will cycle "ON" for 21 seconds.

All this recorded data is based on the P61A in auto ignition, and stove mode......
 
What I have found on my new P61A with the feed rate dial...

The lower the feed rate, the less "ON" cycle per minute the auger runs.... Regardless of what the temperature (numeral, stove mode) dial is set to.

In order to get the slowest burn, the feed rate HAS to be set lower. For example, if the ambient outside temperature is above 30*F, my P61A will maintain house temperature at 66* on settings Feed:1, #1. Stove surface temperature sits at 260-270*F on the side of the stove about 3" down from the top surface.

If I leave the number dial (temperature control) on *1*, and set the feed rate to 2, the auger "ON" time will increase by about 3-4 seconds. The side surface temperature will also increase by about 20*, even though the temperature dial remains on *1*.

Now.... What I do is....If I need more heat, I move the feed rate to *2* and raise the temperature/number dial to *2* also.

What is strange is that everything I have read on this subject points to the feed rate as only being a maximum rate at which the auger will cycle. Since the ESP target is only supposed to be set with the temp/number control knob. Therefore, the auger "ON" time should stay the same whether the feed rate is on 1 or 4.... unless you command a higher stove temperature setting. Yet my findings say otherwise.

If my stove temperature dial is set on *1* with feed rate on 1, I get a 12 second "ON" cycle, 48 second "OFF" cycle from the auger. If I increase the feed rate up 4, the auger will cycle "ON" for 21 seconds.

All this recorded data is based on the P61A in auto ignition, and stove mode......
Cory,
If that is what works for you, then that's fine, but with all due respect, that is the incorrect way to operate your Harman and I don't want folks thinking that they should follow suit. Harman operation is pretty much automatic and fiddling with it all the time is ill advised. Feed rate is a "set it and forget it" adjustment. Somewhere between 3.5 & 4.5 works for almost everyone here. If you're manipulating yours and are happy with it, so be it, and for those of you reading this that are still trying to figure feed rate out...Read the Sticky...and then read it again.
 
Cory,
If that is what works for you, then that's fine, but with all due respect, that is the incorrect way to operate your Harman and I don't want folks thinking that they should follow suit. Harman operation is pretty much automatic and fiddling with it all the time is ill advised. Feed rate is a "set it and forget it" adjustment. Somewhere between 3.5 & 4.5 works for almost everyone here. If you're manipulating yours and are happy with it, so be it, and for those of you reading this that are still trying to figure feed rate out...Read the Sticky...and then read it again.
Its not that I am doing it wrong. It's that I am utilizing more of the available settings in the programming. In situations where the output of the stove needs to be minimized, lowering the feed rate does in fact allow lower BTU's if desired/needed.......
 
Cory, you will find as winter approaches that all the knob turning is trivial. As you begin to really want the stove to heat your house, once out of shoulder season, that after all the experimenting you land right where the rest of us ran our stoves at all along. I for one proved to myself that stove temp mode in shoulder season used the same, or in some cases more pellets, than room temp mode, even with room temp modes ramp up of flame. Your mind tricks you into thinking you Must Be Saving Something by playing with dials ! Nope it's all weather related, your house requires X amount of BTU's to be heated period, that amount changes with seasons and so does the stove when set on room temp auto. You certainly can run it as you choose, it's your stove and there are times where different modes are nice to use and that is why they built them in. For instance with company in our living room, I have run the stove at a fixed setting to where the distribution fan either doesn't run or runs on low. But that is the odd occurrence not the norm.

Secondly, if you bought a P61 thinking it was miserly on fuel, think again. That stove was designed to be a heat producing pellet chewing monster. I own one, when you need heat it's going to make it but you gotta feed it. You have to allow it to do it's thing, and that thing is make serious heat. Nothing makes serious heat without burning fuel. So I suggest feeding it as need be.

There are stoves out there that require owner input regarding feed, ones where playing with dials and baffles and combustion motor speeds is a mandatory part of daily operation. Harman doesn't make them.
 
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Cory, you will find as winter approaches that all the knob turning is trivial. As you begin to really want the stove to heat your house, once out of shoulder season, that after all the experimenting you land right where the rest of us ran our stoves at all along. I for one proved to myself that stove temp mode in shoulder season used the same, or in some cases more pellets, than room temp mode, even with room temp modes ramp up of flame. Your mind tricks you into thinking you Must Be Saving Something by playing with dials ! Nope it's all weather related, your house requires X amount of BTU's to be heated period, that amount changes with seasons and so does the stove when set on room temp auto. You certainly can run it as you choose, it's your stove and there are times where different modes are nice to use and that is why they built them in. For instance with company in our living room, I have run the stove at a fixed setting to where the distribution fan either doesn't run or runs on low. But that is the odd occurrence not the norm.

Secondly, if you bought a P61 thinking it was miserly on fuel, think again. That stove was designed to be a heat producing pellet chewing monster. I own one, when you need heat it's going to make it but you gotta feed it. You have to allow it to do it's thing, and that thing is make serious heat. Nothing makes serious heat without burning fuel. So I suggest feeding it as need be.

There are stoves out there that require owner input regarding feed, ones where playing with dials and baffles and combustion motor speeds is a mandatory part of daily operation. Harman doesn't make them.
Yes, with all due respect, this is well known knowledge. The fact that my testing was all timed and documented, tells me how the stove programming actually works. No guessing. The fact is, that since the lowest advertised output BTU of the P61 is about 13,000 BTU, the only way of getting it that low, is to have a lower feed rate than 4...
 
1. Guilty.. I didn't read the sticky :-(. Forgot there were stickies till you mentioned it which I will visit
2. Can't say I recall going thru 1/4 pellets in 35 min
3. I have noticed many times my flame going very high .. Up to the top of the medallion. I have my temp set around 73 and it did go thru a big chunk of pellets, faster than I thought. Looked like little more than a bag a day.
4. Hhhmmm interesting that the harman owners guide doesn't mention about the feed in that detail. Here's is what I understand per the guide...

- when you turn the unit on, for the first 10 min the unit will run full blast then throttle down to the temp you set.

- as you mentioned (and didn't know this) the feed limit you set does not take into effect unti unit burns at max (when it's really cold) then it goes at your desired feed rate.. Other than that.. touching this setting will not make a difference.


Does that sound about right?
Feed rate in cold weather and Room temp mode : The stove could feed up to and including your set feed rate but it won't stay there , the flame will trim back. It has to because the ESP allows only so much heat up the stack ( I believe around 550 deg F max). Additionally as you approach meeting house temp the wisdom of Harmans on board brain will trim back flame height ( IE, feed less fuel), this again in Room Temp mode.. The greater the difference in house temp from your room temp setting the more likely your stove will hit max feed. Thus keeping the house at continuous temps makes perfect sense vs playing catch up. But doing so in room temp mode in my experience unless severe cold has set in uses a bit less fuel tghan constant burn.

Stove temp or so called Constant Burn: This is totally ESP driven. The stove burns to satisfy ESP temps according to the settings on your dials.. Your house may be over heated, under heated or perfectly heated according to those settings but the ESP will be satisfied. You will find less up ramping of flames and then down ramping of flames in this mode but it will run where it is or close to that 24/7 as the ESP is satisfied. Some people like that constant burn, it's a mode I use when I want to mix central heating with the stove heat, for instance, because I can regulate the stove down to where the room has no effect on output and the central heat will cycle on. But I find if I want the stove to heat the house this mode uses more fuel than room temp mode. For obvious reasons , it's out puting 24/7 at a constant burn rate. Pellet sucking is continuous !
 
Yes, with all due respect, this is well known knowledge. The fact that my testing was all timed and documented, tells me how the stove programming actually works. No guessing. The fact is, that since the lowest advertised output BTU of the P61 is about 13,000 BTU, the only way of getting it that low, is to have a lower feed rate than 4...
Well as I said it's your stove, have fun with it !! LOL
 
Yes, with all due respect, this is well known knowledge. The fact that my testing was all timed and documented, tells me how the stove programming actually works. No guessing. The fact is, that since the lowest advertised output BTU of the P61 is about 13,000 BTU, the only way of getting it that low, is to have a lower feed rate than 4...
Again, not the preferred or recommended method. Enjoy your stove.
 
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