Harman Accentra 52i problems ... aaggghh

[karen_in_nh_2014]

THE SHORT VERSION: the key problem seems to be that pellets won't feed reliably -- will stop feeding for no discernible reason. More details below.

My Harman Accentra 52i pellet insert is only 2-1/2 years old. This past winter, it worked great for several months -- when it started being ornery, I would clean it thoroughly and that always got it working great again.

HOWEVER, maybe a month ago, even a thorough cleaning (everything you can do without pulling it out entirely) didn't work. The biggest problem was that it became EXTREMELY unreliable -- it would work great for a few hours, then the fire would get very low for no discernible reason and I would ultimately give up and shut it off. The next morning I would do nothing except re-start it and it would work for an hour ... then stop. It would OFTEN stop feeding pellets (more than once I emptied the entire hopper to vacuum the insides, but that wouldn't help for long). (Note, these are the same pellets I've been using for years with no problems.)

I finally gave up and called for service. He came a week ago yesterday (Thursday 3/31/16) and did the complete cleaning. The insert then started fine, so he left. It seemed to work OK for a few hours, but then I went into the living room around 5 p.m. and saw that the fire was very low when it should have been still going full blast (my "normal" setting is room temp, feed 4, temp 85+ -- I do this just to keep the fire going at a very high level all day, and it has normally worked perfectly fine with these settings).

Last Friday/Saturday/Sunday it was VERY unreliable -- it would work, then not, then work again, then not, with no rhyme or reason that I could figure out. I called the service people back on Monday morning and said it was still not working, exact same problem as before -- it's unreliable. The service guy came back yesterday (Thursday 4/7/16 -- Thursday is the only day I can almost always be home). This time he replaced the exhaust probe, as I had gotten the 6-blink message a few times and we thought maybe it was the probe (although again, it's TWO AND A HALF YEARS OLD, come on!!). Again, it started up and looked fine. Service guy leaves.

What happens? Within 3 hours, the fire is just about out -- AGAIN -- despite the house temp being in the mid-60s and the insert set on 90+. I called the service company and gave them a detailed message. The biggest problem seems to be that pellets are not reliably falling.

The service guy left me a voicemail this morning suggesting that I empty out the hopper completely and see if there's a blockage. I did, and there was no blockage. I vacuumed again (there were a few fines, but nothing major at all). Added a few pellets, re-started, the fire got bigger ... but then it stopped feeding pellets AGAIN and of course the fire got smaller. I turned the setting from ROOM - HIGH to OFF ... and pellets fed! Within a few seconds I switched back to ROOM - HIGH and more pellets fed. The fire got bigger. But AGAIN, within a few minutes, it stopped feeding pellets.

Anyone have ANY idea WHAT is going on??? I am at my wits' end. This thing cost $5,000 including installation just TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO and should not be breaking down already.

Please help! Thanks in advance!

 

[DAKSY]

How does it run in Stove Temp?
Has anybody cleaned out the fines box?

 

[Peterfield]

Does you model have the rectangular vent in the lower left of the firebox that makes a right angle behind the burn pot?

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

Thank you both for replying -- answers below!

How does it run in Stove Temp?

The service tech suggested that I try it in Stove Temp, so that's what we put it on when he was here on 3/31. It worked for a little while, then the fire died down to almost nothing. I switched it to Room Temp / high (my usual setting) at that time, and the fire got bigger, but then again, it got smaller (because pellets weren't falling!).

Has anybody cleaned out the fines box?

I clean that box every time I do my "regular" cleaning (and check it in between cleanings), and the service tech did it on 3/31/16 when he did the full cleaning. So unfortunately that's not the issue.

Does you model have the rectangular vent in the lower left of the firebox that makes a right angle behind the burn pot?

Not sure what you are describing ... sorry. The fire is currently going out (AGAIN) as pellets simply will not feed. When it goes out completely I will check and try to take a picture as well. (FYI, the model was basically brand new in October 2013, which is when mine was installed.)

It seems to be a problem with the pellet feeder. Even when I put the feed setting on TEST (which means it's supposed to load pellets), most often absolutely nothing happens. Oddly, when I turned the insert OFF (from ROOM / HIGH), it fed pellets. That suggests to me that something about its "brain" is off -- it DOESN'T feed when it's supposed to, but it suddenly DOES feed when the insert is switched OFF? Aaaggggh!!

 

[FirepotPete]

If you think it might be the control board (brain) you might try unplugging it for 20-30 minutes, plug it back in a see what happens. Just make sure you know the settings that you normally use so you can change them back if they get lost when taking the power off the board.

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

If you think it might be the control board (brain) you might try unplugging it for 20-30 minutes, plug it back in a see what happens. Just make sure you know the settings that you normally use so you can change them back if they get lost when taking the power off the board.

Actually, this is something I do WHENEVER the insert flakes out on me -- I unplug, then re-plug after a while (from 1-60 minutes, typically) and re-start. In the past it has often fixed the problem. Lately, however, it has not worked -- something else is going on that simply cannot be "re-set."

Pellets simply do not fall (after the initial ignition), so the fire gets smaller and smaller and goes out. Usually I get the 6-blink message (I got it at least twice today). The service tech JUST replaced the ESP (as in, yesterday) because of the recurring 6-blink messages -- but that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to fix the problem (again, at least 2 more 6-blink messages today). So I just spent $50 (plus labor) to replace something that probably didn't need replacing.

(Incidentally, the fact that pellets DO fall when the unit is initially switched on, so that there will be enough pellets to ignite, tells me that there is NOT a blockage [otherwise no pellets could get through], nor is it a problem with these particular pellets [because they INITIALLY fall and ignite just fine]. So something else is going on.)

I am frustrated beyond belief. (I will "like" everyone who replied as I really appreciate that you are trying to help -- I am just at a loss!)

 

[alternativeheat]

My best guess ( and that's all it is , a guess), you have an air leak in the stove someplace. Or something that reads like an air leak to the brain once the stove warms up. You could do your own dollar bill test or the tech could check the vacuum switch. This is a third season stove basically, door gaskets could be ready for changing, they are a wear item. There could be a clog that nobody has gotten too as well.

On another note, has anyone cleaned the venting lately ?

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

My best guess ( and that's all it is , a guess), you have an air leak in the stove someplace. Or something that reads like an air leak once the stove warms up. You could do your own dollar bill test or the tech could check the vacuum switch. This is a third season stove basically, door gaskets could be ready for changing, they are a wear item.

On another note has anyone cleaned the venting lately ?

Thanks for the reply, but again, there was a FULL CLEANING just 1 week ago (actually 8 days ago) -- including the venting. (When I do my every-ton cleaning, I also clean the venting as much as I can without pulling out the entire unit -- so the venting has been cleaned a few times, with a thorough cleaning 8 days ago.)

The door gasket seems fine, and the tech didn't mention that there was any problem there (and he's been here TWICE in the past 8 days). Exactly what is the "dollar bill test"? I assume it's just holding a dollar bill while you close the door, then seeing how easy (or hard) it is to pull out? Just tried it with a piece of paper and the seal is very tight -- I could not get the paper out without tearing it. So I don't think it's the seal.

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

Does you model have the rectangular vent in the lower left of the firebox that makes a right angle behind the burn pot?

Can you please clarify so I can answer more precisely? I don't know what the difference is between "firebox" and "burn pot" in your question.

In the 52i, the burnpot has an opening in the middle of the back part, with the opening on the left, for pellets to be fed. (The right side is solid -- pellets feed from the left.) Not sure if that's what you were asking?

 

[alternativeheat]

Karen, the firebox is the entire area inside the stove above the ash pan basically and the burn pot sits in or is otherwise attached to the firebox. The burn pot is is only the burner you might say, the portion where the pellets comes in and get burned. Some Accentra inserts had a a clean out hatch in the fire box. All Harman burn pots with auto ignition also have a hatch on the under side of the burn pot to access the igniter and to clean ash out.

Yes , the dollar bill test is just what you described, place a bill in the doorway and shut it. Try that at various points around the stove ( main door, hopper door, and on stoves with an ash pan door then that too). A dollar bill is about the right thickness to test with and it should be a tight fit.

A second test with the stove hot and running is to place a flame along the door seams and see if the flame gets sucked in anywhere. I use a grill lighter and I found a leak in my p61 when it was less than a week old, when running hot.

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

Karen, the firebox is the entire area inside the stove above the ash pan basically and the burn pot sits in or is otherwise attached to the firebox. The burn pot is is only the burner you might say, the portion where the pellets comes in and get burned. Some Accentra inserts had a a clean out hatch in the fire box. All Harman burn pots with auto ignition also have a hatch on the under side of the burn pot to access the igniter and to clean ash out.

Yes , the dollar bill test is just what you described, place a bill in the doorway and shut it. Try that at various points around the stove ( main door, hopper door, and on stoves with an ash pan door then that too). A dollar bill is about the right thickness to test with and it should be a tight fit.

A second test with the stove hot and running is to place a flame along the door seams and see if the flame gets sucked in anywhere. I use a grill lighter and I found a leak in my p61 when it was less than a week old, when running hot.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The 52i insert has an area right underneath the burnpot where fines can build up -- I am very good about cleaning that area (and the tech did so last week too).

Tomorrow I will try the dollar bill test with an actual dollar bill instead of a piece of paper (I left my wallet in my car and I am too tired and cold and lazy to go out and get it). I will also try the "flame" test -- I had never heard of that. Will report back tomorrow.

The biggest problem, though, is that pellets won't fall. That seems to be key. Could it be a problem with the auger? The tech did not check that even though I specifically said that pellets often simply will not load (or more precisely, will not CONTINUE loading after the initial pellets that are ignited to start the fire).

 

[alternativeheat]

Karen, the system has to sense vacuum of a sufficient level or it shuts the auger off. Sometime when your stove is running crack the main door slightly or crack the hopper door open a little and you will see it stops feeding pellets. One of the first signs of a leaky door gasket ( for instance ) is unreliable burns with the auger stopping, then going. Or not go at all if they get bad enough. But other things can leak too. And also just bad flow will cause the vacuum issue. You could have a defective vacuum switch or hose to the vacuum switch. But start off simple, check those gaskets out good. Often the fourth year of burning can require new ones, your stove is close enough.

Bad gaskets, any vacuum leak and plugged stove or venting all can also cause a lazy flame or just less lively flame if the condition isn't too advanced.

You also can kind of pucker the old gaskets up a bit and see if they seal better and the problem goes away temporarily. We had a guy here bail himself out that way with a stove that wouldn't run on a 16 deg night this winter. Wasn't a Harman but that doesn't matter, same theory.

 

[alternativeheat]

Karen , also read though the suggestions on the PC 45 messages right below your post. And you might think about doing a periodic setting change in a broad sweeping fashion . The pots do get dirty on the Harman boards and it helps to just rotate them now and then, kind of spin them back and forth a couple of times ( the control knobs).

I had a surge protector go bad on my P61 last year. It started out with general erratic behavior of the stove but that didn't last long in my case, the surge protector just gave up and that was that. So happens I had just ordered in a new one for another purpose so was good to go. Plugged in the new one, the stove ran perfect and has ever since.

We had a guy here was going crazy trying to get his stove to run right. We suggested he just try another outlet. He did and the stove was fine. Turns out he had some electrical work done in the house and somehow that outlet the stove was on got reverse wired or ungrounded ( I don't recall exactly which).

 

[smwilliamson]

So I need you to clearify whether it slows or stops feeding on BOTH modes, Room Temp and Stove Temp which I think they now call Constant burn. If it acts up on room temp but NOT on stove temp then I would suspect the room sensing probe it could be faulty OR it could be that it's too close to a warm place and starts shutting the stove down when the probe starts heating up.

If the problem persists on BOTH modes then I would suspect that something foreign like a peice of wood, paper, plastic or such got pulled down into the feeder body. The unit will have to be removed and the auger would have to be pulled out from the back of the stove and an inspection up inside would be in order.

It's also possible that the fines box cover plate isn't seated down properly and air could be leaking in and is causing the pressure switch to open and close in an ad hoc manner, this problem usually throws 6 blink error codes though.

Another suspect could be the pressure switch itself. If the diaphragm inside the switch is come unglued the switch can be leaking air and not making a full seal thus causing the feed to go intermittent, but this is very rare.

Your auger motor should be turning at 4RPM. If the motor is getting hung up or had worn out it may be turning slower. I have seen instances where the motor (if it's a Gleason Avery motor) may be leaking grease from the gear box and its spun up inside the coil and it causing the shaded poles to fail this keeping the motor from spinning fast enough.

Last but not least, going back to the fines box again, open it up and remove the feeder plate and see if it was installed upside down during a cleaning. The second ply metal edge should be up.

 

[smwilliamson]

Don't waste your time chasing gasket leaks. That's not the issue. If it was enough of an issue to cause problems with the pressure switch you would be throwing #2 errors.

 

[miteclipse]

Try backing your feed rate to 3 or 2. If the pellets are more ashy (even if they are the same brand) the burn pot air holes can become blocked. This resolved the same issue my parents had and also fixed someone else's awhile back (same 6 blink error).

 

[karen_in_nh_2014]

Sorry for the very late reply -- I can only have the Harman guy(s) come on Thursdays and I had to skip one because I was horribly ill with the flu.

Figured I'd give an update, since it turned out to be something pretty simple -- once we figured out what the problem was. Last time the Harman tech came (which was last Thursday), the insert had actually worked FINE in the morning -- he was due at my house at 1:30 p.m. and I figured I would try one more time to see if I could get it to work. I started it around 10 a.m. and after an hour it was still going strong. As of noon, it was STILL burning fine with no sign of the fire being about to go out (as was usually the case), but I knew the insert had to be cool-ish (at least) for the tech, so I turned it off at that time. Well, he came, and I told him it seemed to be fine that morning, so he said OK, call me if anything changes. And, of course, when I turned it back on that afternoon, the fire started to die within an hour -- same old problem. Aaaggggh.

The tech called me the next morning and said the only other thing he could think of is that there was a problem at the top of the chimney -- about 27' up. He HAD done all the deep cleaning, including putting his very very long brushes all the way up, but still, maybe there was a bigger problem up there (which would make the unit start to shut itself off). So today when he came, he brought 2 more techs AND a piece of equipment that allows them to work safely on a roof (sorry, don't know what it's called -- it has an enclosure for the worker(s) so they don't have to be on the roof itself). The very top piece of the chimney cap was very very sooty, which meant that very little air was getting through, which meant the unit was shutting itself off as a safety feature.

They cleaned the top piece, replaced it, started the unit, and we could all tell right away that the flame looked better than it has looked in the past several weeks/months.

And the best part? They charged me a total of ZERO DOLLARS for this visit, with 3 techs and what I have to assume is a very expensive piece of equipment. Needless to say I was surprised and delighted.

SO -- thanks again for all the replies, I really appreciate them (and will "like" any that I haven't already)!! Mystery solved, at least for now. We are still in the freezing range overnight and will be for at least another week, so I'll definitely get more use of the insert this season, which is nice.

 

[alternativeheat]

Great news Karen ( well not about the flu) !

 

[smwilliamson]

That's a great solution kudos for great customer service

 

[Emujds]

Just got a new 52i beginning of October installed

Fired it up it would start then stop ( 2blink )
Tech came out did some stuff
Thought it was the vacuum draft system was bad
Not the case the took the insert to shop to mess with
After they called harman multiple times
Turns out that the factory put the wrong hopper seal on