Harman Oakwood stove problems

[jdonna]

Should be posted in the owners manual, firedome maintenance. My experience with Harman dealers out here have been run and gun salesmen.

Amazes me, I was a Stihl dealer at one time and they would pull a dealership for poor customer service and or lack of update training by dealer staff. Each product had to be demonstrated fully before leaving the door.

 

[jnau]

What about the Heat output? Do you all feel that most of the heat comes from the top and back of this stove? I have mine set 6 inches into my fireplace, I think a lot is being kicked backwards, thinking of putting a fan back there to push it out.

Any thoughts?

 

[T@LFarms]

There is very little heat from the back of my stove. the majority comes from the front and sides.

 

[jnau]

And you have the oakwood? I have little from the front, most is from the top.

 

[Diabel]

With a downdraft stove most should of the heat should be
coming froms the back of the stove, me thinks!

 

[Donk4kyv]

What kind of material is the combustion package made of? Mine is soft, almost like paper maché or styrofoam. I almost damaged it when I was cleaning the stove last year and started scraping on it. It looked identical to the ash that had accumulated on the adjacent fire brick, but I quickly realised I was scratching into the CP material and not ash from fire brick.

I had the dealer who installed mine come out to service it at the end of the 2nd burning season, since the 2nd year it didn't seem to perform as well as it did the first year. He took the brick out, but couldn't get the shoe brick to come out, so he just stuck the vacuum hose into the CP above the brick and sucked out the ash. But after he finished, we couldn't find the little square gaskets that go over the holes in the front of the CP to seal where they line up with the holes in the fire bricks. They are very light and fragile, almost like dust bunnies, so I suspect they accidentally got sucked up in the vacuum cleaner. He said not to worry; not having them in place won't affect the performance of the stove.

But this season, the stove has performed even worse than it did last year. Just doesn't give out the heat like it did the first year. May be the wood, since most of the stuff in my stack shows between 20% and 23% when I stick the gauge probes into a piece freshly split to take the measurement, but that's all the wood I have.

I wonder about those little missing square pieces. They must have served some purpose, or the manufacturer wouldn't have included them, and I wonder if air leakage from inside the CP is affecting something, since I don't think the afterburner is working as well as it did first year. Most of the time little heat is being radiated from the heat fins on the back panel; most is coming from the top and sides of the stove. First season, the back got very hot even with a moderate burn.

How do you remove the combustion package after the bricks are removed? Does it just sit in place, or is there something to hold it in place. I think it would be very easy to damage or destroy it if not handled properly. The instruction book is not much help. The blown up diagram doesn't even show those little square pieces; it just shows the brick and the CP, and I could find no mention of it in the parts list.

I think I'm going to service it myself from now on, since the guy from the dealer couldn't figure out how to take out the shoe brick and lost those little square gaskets, so even though he did a good job installing it, I don't think he knows anything about the workings of the stove. And I wonder if one can even get replacements for those little gaskets, since there is no mention of them in the parts list or the diagram. Surely you don't have to purchase a whole new CP just to get those little things.


Don

 

[branchburner]

Most of the time little heat is being radiated from the heat fins on the back panel; most is coming from the top and sides of the stove. First season, the back got very hot even with a moderate burn.

How do you remove the combustion package after the bricks are removed? Does it just sit in place, or is there something to hold it in place.

And I wonder if one can even get replacements for those little gaskets, since there is no mention of them in the parts list or the diagram. Surely you don't have to purchase a whole new CP just to get those little things.

Hi Don. Sounds like you are not getting secondary burn much at all, or the back would be getting hot. The CP could be clogged with ash, which cannot easily be cleaned without removal (I agree, do not bother with your dealer, he doesn't sound like he knows the stove). It could also be your wood (add in some smaller, drier pallet wood to the mix) or it could be your draft if the pipe is not clean... keep an eye on that, since your burn is not clean without secondaries.

You remove the CP strraight out from the back, after removing the small bolts (w/ an allen wrench) that hold the back cover on. The CP just rests there but may stick to the inside bricks or may stick to the outside cover, which is kind of heavy, so you have to be sure to pull that cover straight out very evenly to avoid damage (yes, very easy to damage)... at a few years of use, and the CP may easily crack. I no longer suggest vacuuming or removing unless really needed, as it can weaken and pull apart the CP itself, but try simply removing all LOOSE ash in and around the CP once it is removed. Mine had major ash buildup at one point in the area of the secondary air intakes.

I would try contacting Harman directly about those those little gaskets, and insist they or your dealer make good on them, since he was in error. I cannot say how big a factor they might be in your problems, but there's no reason not to have them in. Good luck!

 

[Donk4kyv]

Hi Don. Sounds like you are not getting secondary burn much at all, or the back would be getting hot. The CP could be clogged with ash, which cannot easily be cleaned without removal (I agree, do not bother with your dealer, he doesn't sound like he knows the stove). It could also be your wood (add in some smaller, drier pallet wood to the mix) or it could be your draft if the pipe is not clean... keep an eye on that, since your burn is not clean without secondaries.

You remove the CP straight out from the back, after removing the small bolts (w/ an allen wrench) that hold the back cover on. The CP just rests there but may stick to the inside bricks or may stick to the outside cover, which is kind of heavy, so you have to be sure to pull that cover straight out very evenly to avoid damage (yes, very easy to damage)... at a few years of use, and the CP may easily crack. I no longer suggest vacuuming or removing unless really needed, as it can weaken and pull apart the CP itself, but try simply removing all LOOSE ash in and around the CP once it is removed. Mine had major ash buildup at one point in the area of the secondary air intakes.

I would try contacting Harman directly about those those little gaskets, and insist they or your dealer make good on them, since he was in error. I cannot say how big a factor they might be in your problems, but there's no reason not to have them in. Good luck!

Thanks. I'll check that. I get a good draft when the by-pass damper is open, but it doesn't seem to pull air through the CP as well as it used to with the damper closed. Lately, I have had to open the air control on the front almost fully to the right to get a good hot burn.

If I remove the bricks at the back of the stove and remove the shoe brick, wouldn't that assure that the CP won't stick to the bricks and pull apart when I remove the back cover? The ones except for the shoe brick seem loose and I have always been able to slightly move them, since they are not made to fit snugly together.

I'll have to remove the optional heat shield from the back to get at the back cover. I assume the allen-head bolts you mentioned are under the shield, and you DON'T mean the six 7/16" nuts on the studs that hold the main back part of the stove together. I wonder if the CP might also stick to the bottom of the stove and pull apart when I attempt to pull the back cover.

Another thing I noticed last year, my grate has warped, so that it arches up about a half-inch in the middle. This makes it more difficult to rake all the ashes through the grate into the ash pan. I don't remember ever over-firing the stove, but first noticed the warp about the middle of last year's heating season. When the guy from the dealer checked the stove in the spring he said no need to order a new one, since that warp wouldn't hurt anything. I wonder if that is a common problem with those stoves. According to the owner's manual, grate replacement is the one part not covered by the warranty.

The only time I may have approached over-firing happened early the first season I used the stove. It got hot enough that I could see a faint red glow from the exterior side of the rear casting on the stove that contains the fire dome, visible only when I turned the lights off. Not sure if that is normal, but I immediately reduced the draft and let it cool down, and didn't see any apparent damage anywhere.

So far, no cracks in any of the bricks. The guy from the dealer said that if a crack appears, not to be concerned as long as the two pieces will remain securely in place, but I notice some people who have had cracks say they glued theirs back together using stove cement.

Again, thanks for the info.

Don

 

[branchburner]

If I remove the bricks at the back of the stove and remove the shoe brick, wouldn't that assure that the CP won't stick to the bricks and pull apart when I remove the back cover?

I assume the allen-head bolts you mentioned are under the shield, and you DON'T mean the six 7/16" nuts on the studs that hold the main back part of the stove together. I wonder if the CP might also stick to the bottom of the stove and pull apart when I attempt to pull the back cover.

Another thing I noticed last year, my grate has warped, so that it arches up about a half-inch in the middle.

Yes, the allen-head bolts just hold the rear cover of the burn chamber, not the entire back of the stove. Obviously take care, when loosening the last one, that you are supporting the whole assembly so it doesn't just fall off and you can instead pull it straight back as far as needed. Note, there is rope gasket that seals that cover -- mine was in bad shape at certain points.

The CP could be "sticky" to that rear cover, to the bottom of the stove, or to the internal framework (but not to the bricks themselves, as they are on the opposite side of the framework -- that's why you can't remove the CP from the front, as you will see). If it is, only a gentle force should be needed to un-stick it.

I suggest taking all the brick and associated refractory out of the front, taking care to remember where everything goes and how it is clipped in (it is not complicated, but like anything else you take apart, easy to get confused when putting it back in place!). That way you can clean out all ash, and see exactly what the stove looks like when fully gutted. Be sure to clean the ash around the secondary air ports (you may want to remove the bottom cover that protects them, if ash can all easily be gotten with a vac).

While everything is out, check the bolts holding the damper frame (mine became very loose over time - you can find them more easily by feeling around than by looking). It's also a good time to adjust the damper ramp, if needed... at one point I had no friction when the bypass was closed, and it actually "fell open" by itself a few times, simply due to the slight pressure of minor backpuffing... obviously a potentially bad situation.

Don't worry about the grate - I think the warp is not that unusual, and could probably happen in a single minor overfir like the one you described. If you don't like the arch, just flip it, and the convex becomes the concave!

 

[Donk4kyv]

Thanks again for the useful information. I did a couple of searches and found a store in Missouri that sells parts on line.
(broken link removed to http://www.hechlers.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=31_126_128&sort=20a&page=1)

They have those little gaskets in stock @ $18 for the pair. Expensive, but I suspect if they weren't necessary the manufacturer wouldn't have put them on the stove. They also carry base gaskets for the CP, which cost less that the little square ones. I would think the base gaskets would help prevent the CP from sticking to the bottom, or at least make it easier to un-stick.

I viewed the Harman web site and they don't list the place where I bought mine any more as a dealer. The nearest one shown now is about 140 miles away, near Memphis. I wonder if my dealer discontinued Harman products or went out of business entirely. They seemed competent when they did the installation, but I suspect the guy didn't know my stove very well. Their main interest in Harman appeared to be pellet stoves, and they had just a couple of wood burners in stock almost as an afterthought.

Reviews for the Oakwood are very good and most owners appear satisfied with their stove. I plan to inspect and clean the CP myself and look for anything else that needs attention while I have it apart. I think if I do my own work and can always find a parts source, the stove should last a long time.

According to the manual, it's normal for a new stove to need that adjustment on the damper ramp after it has been in use for a while. I re-adjusted mine while I had the stove moved out of position to do some work on the wall where the old fireplace used to be.

One more example of if you want anything done right, learn how to do it yourself.

Don