Harman P52i Auger Vibration

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Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
4,259
Lorraine NY
I would try removing the combustion motor and hold it in your hand and run it.. if you feel the slightest vibration it will transfer that to any loose object in the stove. by vibration and harmonics.
 
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rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
I would try removing the combustion motor and hold it in your hand and run it.. if you feel the slightest vibration it will transfer that to any loose object in the stove. by vibration and harmonics.

Will do. Plan is to pull auger and if nothing then pull comb. motor
 
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rickwai

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2011
1,222
ohio
Will do. Plan is to pull auger and if nothing then pull comb. motor
Keep us in the loop. I service several Harman stoves a week . Mostly Inserts because most homeowners are not capable of pulling them . And I have not run into this situation yet. First time for everything. Monsday I had to pull a older Accentra insert to do a full annual cleaning, Igniter, docking gasket and auger replacement. About a 3 hr job.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Keep us in the loop. I service several Harman stoves a week . Mostly Inserts because most homeowners are not capable of pulling them . And I have not run into this situation yet. First time for everything. Monsday I had to pull a older Accentra insert to do a full annual cleaning, Igniter, docking gasket and auger replacement. About a 3 hr job.
Will do. I don't know what constitutes an "older" insert? Mine is from 2014 (or at least that's when it was bought / installed).

Mine sits flat and I built a set of rails that slide into the existing rails to pull it out. Not too bad. I really wish they made the thing on a "drawer" that just slid out on rollers, but my system works. I just have to store it in the basement.

Playing cards with my wife last night I kept having to quiet the stove....was driving me crazy. I plan to tear it all apart and clean everything to new. The liner, the auger, the combustion blower, distribution blowers.... hopefully I find the culprit.
 

rickwai

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2011
1,222
ohio
Will do. I don't know what constitutes an "older" insert? Mine is from 2014 (or at least that's when it was bought / installed).

Mine sits flat and I built a set of rails that slide into the existing rails to pull it out. Not too bad. I really wish they made the thing on a "drawer" that just slid out on rollers, but my system works. I just have to store it in the basement.

Playing cards with my wife last night I kept having to quiet the stove....was driving me crazy. I plan to tear it all apart and clean everything to new. The liner, the auger, the combustion blower, distribution blowers.... hopefully I find the culprit.
This one was about a 2006 or so. The original Accentra insert with the Dist blower in the bottom and the older style feeder.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Quick question... I have the stove pulled apart. The auger motor and assembly have some play back and forth, maybe 1/8" or a even just a 1/16"? It's just in and out slightly (same way as the auger) not side to side at all. I'm assuming this is normal?

I believe I found the culprit though. The lower screw on the combustion motor was loose. Like I can pull it away from the wall 1/4". I'm just happy it didn't work it's way into the fan blade.

I'm assuming the vibrations were traveling down the rear wall and could be felt through the auger. When I opened the door and pushed on the auger some maybe it silenced the vibrations back through the wall? Very weird but that loose screw I'm 99% will cure all when tightened.

Unless the auger isn't supposed to have any movement?

Thanks guys. You were all right pointing to the combustion motor.... I didn't imagine that the screw could work it's way loose. I've heard bad bearings before, this just wasn't it (and still isn't).
 
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gfreek

Minister of Fire
Nov 5, 2010
1,423
Attica,,New York
Hope that's it, simple fix if that..
 

railfanron

Minister of Fire
Nov 2, 2013
563
Perry MI
Yep I told you way back in the beginning that was it. The problem is that screw is supposed to be spot welded in place. That's why it vibrates when it's loose. If you can get to it I think a little high temp silicone in the hole and then tighten it up might work. Let the silicone set before firing the stove up.
Ron
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Yep I told you way back in the beginning that was it. The problem is that screw is supposed to be spot welded in place. That's why it vibrates when it's loose. If you can get to it I think a little high temp silicone in the hole and then tighten it up might work. Let the silicone set before firing the stove up.
Ron
I'm not sure mine are supposed to be spot welded? None of the 3 have ever been. Would be great in theory until one of the threads broke or got cross threaded.

Well, so far so good. Noise is 100% gone. So odd that it stopped when messing with the auger.

Does anyone have any comments about the play in the auger assembly? It's supposed to be like that yeah?
 
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rickwai

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2011
1,222
ohio
I'm not sure mine are supposed to be spot welded? None of the 3 have ever been. Would be great in theory until one of the threads broke or got cross threaded.

Well, so far so good. Noise is 100% gone. So odd that it stopped when messing with the auger.

Does anyone have any comments about the play in the auger assembly? It's supposed to be like that yeah?
Auger is fine. When you originally said it had play in it I thought it was enough for it to touch over on the tube wall. A 1/16" end play is fine. As long as it turns smooth and does not rub the the tube all is good.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Auger is fine. When you originally said it had play in it I thought it was enough for it to touch over on the tube wall. A 1/16" end play is fine. As long as it turns smooth and does not rub the the tube all is good.

From the back? I can pick up on the motor up along with the auger assembly a good 1/16" or even 1/8". I'm assuming it's supposed to "float"? The auger itself does not touch the walls.

As of now (I'm almost scared to say anything) stove is running like a champ. If I don't scrape the burn pot I do get a slight noise, but after scraping (which I should be doing daily anyway) it goes right away.

It was good, I cleaned out the back and whipped the inside of the liner.... it was time. Things are running great...
 

railfanron

Minister of Fire
Nov 2, 2013
563
Perry MI
I'm pretty sure those combustion fan mounting screws are all spot welded in place. Yours have probably been replaced. Think about it, if the nuts were a little hard to turn on the screws the screw would turn in the housing. It would be impossible for one person to hold the screw in the fan housing and turn the nut at the same time.
Ron
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
I'm pretty sure those combustion fan mounting screws are all spot welded in place. Yours have probably been replaced. Think about it, if the nuts were a little hard to turn on the screws the screw would turn in the housing. It would be impossible for one person to hold the screw in the fan housing and turn the nut at the same time.
Ron
No Sir, mine are not. They are wedged to where when the nut tightens down there's enough friction to prevent them from spinning. I replaced my combustion motor the 1st year I had the unit, all 3 bolts slide right out... pita.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
This is it;
Harman part #1-00-53483208

No spot welding.
 

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ABusWrench

Burning Hunk
Sep 11, 2015
186
East Canton, Ohio
This is it;
Harman part #1-00-53483208

No spot welding.
The next time you are in there, place a small dab of high temp silicone on the bolt/stud head. Will help hold them in place.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
The next time you are in there, place a small dab of high temp silicone on the bolt/stud head. Will help hold them in place.

Good call. The 1st time I did it I got my wife to help, the second time I think I used anti seize just to get something sticky, but silicone would work better. Once I get one done the others are easy because the fan applies some friction when I slip them through.

Great suggestion though.
 

gfreek

Minister of Fire
Nov 5, 2010
1,423
Attica,,New York
I open with clean out door and do the reach around with my other hand to hold the stud in place..high temp silicone may try next time..
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
You know I still have a slight vibration going on... when it happens the pot usually needs to be scraped (so after a few hours, 8 or so) and it's definitely in the auger, or in the auger assembly. So something is slightly loose... I just don't know what it could be.

I scraped the pot when I got home and noise was gone, but back a little when I woke up. Scraped the pot and all is good. Maybe I'm just losing it...

I'll say I'm very anal about it making noise. It's in my living room and within 3-4' of a tv, so when something is out of wack it's infuriating.
 

Harman Lover 007

Minister of Fire
You know I still have a slight vibration going on... when it happens the pot usually needs to be scraped (so after a few hours, 8 or so) and it's definitely in the auger, or in the auger assembly. So something is slightly loose... I just don't know what it could be.

I scraped the pot when I got home and noise was gone, but back a little when I woke up. Scraped the pot and all is good. Maybe I'm just losing it...

I'll say I'm very anal about it making noise. It's in my living room and within 3-4' of a tv, so when something is out of wack it's infuriating.
Turn up the TV....sorry....just trying to add a little levity....
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Turn up the TV....sorry....just trying to add a little levity....

Oh believe me, I do... My wife thinks I'm deaf (which might be partially true), but some of it really is to just drown out the stove.

I'm really complaining about a very faint vibration now that is totally bearable especially given the fact that it goes away with a good scraping...
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
@*#%*%^[email protected]*%* ..... Well that was short lived.. noise is back. More inconsistent this time, but it's 100% back. Had to mess with the stove 4 times last night to get it to quiet down. It's so weird, same thing as last time. I can put the scraper on the tip of the auger and feel the vibration, I scrape the burn pot and it goes away.

I guess I'm falling back to changing out the combustion motor. I don't know what else it could be, and you guys are all telling me that you've never seen anything go wrong with the auger...

Just to clarify, the noise starts when the auger moves (but not always), but continues after the auger has stopped. Something is vibrating... I can only assume it's the combustion motor..... any other suggestions? My issue is, it's not consistent. When things are quiet it's DEAD quiet.
 

ABusWrench

Burning Hunk
Sep 11, 2015
186
East Canton, Ohio
@*#%*%^[email protected]*%* ..... Well that was short lived.. noise is back. More inconsistent this time, but it's 100% back. Had to mess with the stove 4 times last night to get it to quiet down. It's so weird, same thing as last time. I can put the scraper on the tip of the auger and feel the vibration, I scrape the burn pot and it goes away.

I guess I'm falling back to changing out the combustion motor. I don't know what else it could be, and you guys are all telling me that you've never seen anything go wrong with the auger...

Just to clarify, the noise starts when the auger moves (but not always), but continues after the auger has stopped. Something is vibrating... I can only assume it's the combustion motor..... any other suggestions? My issue is, it's not consistent. When things are quiet it's DEAD quiet.
Is the combustion fan coming apart? It is a 2 sided fan blade setup with the pieces riveted together. Is the fan coming apart or the blade pieces loose/missing and moving with heat and fan speed changes? Just throwing this out there.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Is the combustion fan coming apart? It is a 2 sided fan blade setup with the pieces riveted together. Is the fan coming apart or the blade pieces loose/missing and moving with heat and fan speed changes? Just throwing this out there.

No, brand new fan. Thanks though.
 

rob.mwpropane

Member
Dec 1, 2013
99
Baldwin MD
Ok, so I came back on here just to report. Changed the combustion blower, that was 100% it. Honestly I can't believe it as it's the 4th one I've had on there. And this last one was an Gleason Avery. I did make a mistake though, we'll see how it goes. I ordered the .95 amp version as opposed to the 1.75 amp version. I can tell a huge difference in low, not sure about high just yet.

You guy were 1000% right, and I was wrong (shhhh, don't tell my wife, lol).

Does anyone or has anyone replaced the bearings on one of these? I'd really like to get an expensive pair of ceramic bearings to replace and see how they do. I really can't believe I'm on motor #4 in 7 years. I know it's the most used part of the stove but that just seems a bit excessive to me.

Thoughts on replacing the bearings? I've tried it before but couldn't get the fan blade off without messing it up. Has anyone seen that done before.

The old fan didn't have any play in the shaft and spun forever, but it did have some very slight chatter once removed from the unit and spun. Almost like sand in the bearing, but just the smallest piece. It was enough to drive me crazy though.

Thanks guys... have a great Saturday.
 
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gfreek

Minister of Fire
Nov 5, 2010
1,423
Attica,,New York
I've done the bearing replacement. Skate board bearing but different inner diameter.. I've used long allen wrench, could use maybe long allen socket, correct angle thru the blades to remove. Fan slides off, remove screws, then end housing, then I use a small bearing separator to get under the bearing and vise to remove the bearings from the shaft..long mini pipe nipple to reinstall bearing on fan shaft side. Sorry I forgot the sizes I used..
 
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