Harmon P68 vs Bosca 500 Classic

[Cyberc@t]

Hi all

I suspect I sort of know the answer, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has either gone from the Bosca Classic 500 to the Harmon P68, or anyone who simply owns either model. I have the Bosca. It is the dirtiest, messiest thing I have ever encountered.

I currently do my own yearly maintenance on it, all appropriate cleaning procedures, the few repairs its ever needed (one blown motor), clean chimney, etc. I use quality pellets, softwood since I've never seen any difference in using hardwood.

I'm not missing any cleaning procedures cuz if you do, the thing simply doesn't work until you do it. It's also inadequate heat (no OAK) - I live just outside of Brockville, Ontario - so it is quite cold here in the Winter. About minus -35 F (not C) is the average worst around here.

My two main levels are 1300 sq feet each. The drafty 100+ year old basement is another 1300 sq feet, not used, just your basic icky old basement, I do have an oil furnace, which I haven't used since I got the Bosca, never heated the basement, anyway. I;ve been told that P68 Harmon will be way better, way cleaner.

Any comments on my switching to the P68? Will my life, heat quality and mess improve? I'd also like to add the extra hopper, which seems to give me a total of 140 pounds +/- and any other little extra like temp controls, etc so I can actually leave the house for a night or so in the Winter and not have to torch the pipes when I get home ... thanks for any comments.

tanya

 

[Bioburner]

One of the biggest advantages will be you will have support, a web forum that can usually get your problem solved better than a expensive visit from a dealer and several sources for parts. I am so glad I never bought a Bosca. I liked that they used common parts.
The ease of cleaning and the very large ash bin is a very nice feature of the p series.

 

[Cyberc@t]

Thanks, it is actually the Harmon dealer who has helped me with the Bosca ... he has been utterly fantastic. Who ever it is who is 'supposed' to be the Bosca tech just doesn't ever get back to people, hence you have to learn to work on it, yourself. It wasn't my idea to put the Bosca in, we were grossly undersold from a different dealer, and I had nothing to do with the deal. Research now tells me what was going on when we bought ... everything in Canada is also a LOT more than USA prices so putting in a stove isn't a cheap adventure ... but it just can't handle a house this size. Even if it could, it is one dirty, time-consuming stove ...

 

[bogieb]

I love my Harman's. Very easy to maintain even with the ashiest of pellets. The hopper extension is great too although I would take that 140# with a grain of salt - but you can get a nice long burn out of it.

If the Bosca is to the point that you need to replace it, I would go with the Harman. But if it runs well, heats your house (you haven't run the oil burner since you got the Bosca) and you spend minimal upkeep $, then I would think long and hard about replacing it. Also, you may want to think about getting a second stove to help heat areas that need it. If the Bosca doesn't have to work as hard, it may not be as dirty.

And, there is no guarantee that the P68 will actually handle your house by itself. Case in point; My P61a should easily heat my 650 sq/ft basement and 950 sq/ft main floor. Unfortunately the air currents don't carry the heat where I need it; even with holes cut in floors and lots of vent fans it would be near 90* in the basement and in the 40's in the bedrooms (living room and kitchen were in low 70's), so I ended up with another stove (Harman P43) on my main floor. I would have been better served to buy 2 smaller stoves at the same time (my original plan) as to buying the P61a and then still having to get another stove.

Of course there are plenty of other people that heat a couple of floors, and way more sq/footage just fine with a P61 or P68. So it is hard to say what exactly to do in your circumstance. But, you may look into what it will cost for two P43's and put one on each floor or just one P43 as a supplement to the Bosca (you may even be able to find some lightly used stoves for a great discount in price).

 

[Bioburner]

Unfortunately the OP lives in a poor used market area so pickings for a used stove is thin unless can see if someone friendly from south of the border can find a good used stove. I sold my used PC45 last month and I hope they are enjoying it as they are burning corn and use lot of corn in their family farm. I have not seen that many used stoves here in Minnesota yet but that will probably change after Easter.
Tanya, is that you mushing in the avatar?

 

[bogieb]

By the way, welcome to the forum @Cyberc@t !

 

[bogieb]

Unfortunately the OP lives in a poor used market area so pickings for a used stove is thin unless can see if someone friendly from south of the border can find a good used stove. I sold my used PC45 last month and I hope they are enjoying it as they are burning corn and use lot of corn in their family farm. I have not seen that many used stoves here in Minnesota yet but that will probably change after Easter.
Tanya, is that you mushing in the avatar?

Just looked at the CL aimed at her area - and holy cow, there is nothing there for used pellet stoves, much less used Harman's.

 

[Bioburner]

Population density is very low

 

[Cyberc@t]

Yes, that is me mushing, with Bert and Ernie, both now dead (ernie just died last month at almost 14, he was still sledding at 12). I have 5 other Alaskan Malamutes I still sled and show. Yes, all of Ontario is tough to find a used stove, I've been looking. I'd drive anywhere in lower Ontario for one, there just isn't one to be found. Dealers sometimes have demos, so that's my only real option.Kijiji is what we tend to use here, CL isn't all that popular in most of Canada. I've been looking six months. A couple in Thunder Bay but that is a 13 hour drive, though I usually go there first weekend of May, for the dogs, anyway.

 

[johneh]

Just looked at the CL aimed at her area - and holy cow, there is nothing there for used pellet stoves, much less used Harman's.

In Canada CL is not used much we seem to like KIJIJI
and there are a few on it just north of her in Ottawa
http://www.kijiji.ca/b-ottawa/pellet-stove/k0l1700185

 

[Cyberc@t]

Thanks, the one was just posted. I haven't looked at any other models other than the Harmon, though. The P68 retails for almost $6K with tax. I can get way cheaper ones of other brands at CTC or TSC but when I looked at a few they were really poorly made in comparison to Harmon or even my Bosca....

 

[johneh]

I don't know who you are dealing with but you are close to ferguson's energy systems .
Talk to Earl he is the owner and may give you a better price .
(broken link removed to http://fergusonsenergysystems.com/index.html)

 

[Cyberc@t]

They are fantastic people, where I get my pellets, for what I have now. I likely just didn't rem the price right. Either way, the mess of this Bosca isn't worth even one more year of it. It is terrible for cleaning, terrible for ash coming out every time you open the door.

 

[bags]

I run a P68 and love it. You can run one easily for a month before any cleaning and even longer. My dealer here runs his ALL winter to heat his showroom and shop. Never turns it off nor cleans it just to show customers how reliable they are. He does scrape the pot and quickly scrapes down the fire box when he switches ash pans. I do just clean mine out of habit after every ton burned which is a month. I am heating 2,350 SQ FT on two floors comfortably here. We do not see -35* F here but it does get below zero and we have had brutally cold winters but this winter more of a normal one.

All I do is a quick pot scrape daily while the stove is running and dump pellets into the hopper. Literally. The Harmans are not picky about any type or brand of pellets either. They will burn whatever you feed them. I am very happy with my P68. I am glad I bought it and have zero regrets.

Had I bought a PITA to operate and non-stop cleaning type stove I would have likely said to hell with pellets. But I can honestly say the P68 has simplified my heating life. They are not cheap but well worth it. I do not know anything about the Bosca but I'll just take your word for it as being a pain and that is all I need to know. I'd never buy one just because of that.
'

 

[the cug]

theres a lot of stoves for sale on kijiji in Ontario. now is the time to bargain. your drafty basement is a concern. try and cover up or insulate. your floor is 1 more wall that your heating up and from experience a lot of your cold is coming from there. I heat my camp with a pellet stove and theres not enough btus to keep up. the camp is 18' x 44'. I purchased another stove (2nd hand) to help out with the situation.

 

[Cyberc@t]

Not entirely sure I know what you mean. I have a field rock foundation, one corner cracked. A friend is going to show me how to fix it. Same corner as the water pump. But I can't see any amount of heat ever making contact with that basement, though I may have misread? And while there are a lot of stoves on kijiji I either don't know what they are, or, they aren't very good? Correct me, if I am wrong. I have old board style floors, which I was going to cover up with laminate. Yes, they could be refinished. And I did ONE single room one year and what a horrific mess. For six months!

 

[Cyberc@t]

@bags - never once did it occur to me to have a second ash pot. until now ... thanks!

 

[jzm2cc]

Harmans are definitely nice units but not without issues. My PC45 is in pieces getting the feeder weldment welded. Classic auger tube burn hole along with having auger tip welded/extended.

I've found the Heatilator Cab50 a joy to heat the house this winter. Holds 120 lbs, stupid simple to clean, and inexpensive to buy compared to a Harman.

My personal favorite is still the Prescott EXP.

 

[Cyberc@t]

Available in Ontario, Canada?

 

[jzm2cc]

A quick Google search shows all of those brands are sold in Canada.

 

[Lake Girl]

Cyberc@t, the Harman in TBay is from the dealer there so I don't think you will get much of a rate cut. If you decide to go with a Harman, stick with a more local dealer. What's up in May with the dogs in TBay?

It always amazes me what can be found for used pellet stoves in the US ... never see those kind of deals here

What exactly makes the Bosca a mess? What brand pellets are you using ... they can make or break you depending on ash! How well does it heat your space?

Insulate that basement (the whole house!) as much as you can ... Added rigid styrofoam in addition to fiberglass and vapour barrier for our crawl space and made a big difference. Spray in insulation on the rim joists will also help keep out the drafts and insulate ... use the proper vapour mask when applying.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[the cug]

also if your going to do your floor put a vapour barrier below your padding over top of your planks.

 

[johneh]

And I did ONE single room one year and what a horrific mess. For six months!

A YEAR did my complete down stares in 1 week including 3 coats of finish 1200 sq ft. . Old style 2x8 tongue and grove pine .
House is hand squared cedar logs built in 1861

 

[Manfred Range]

I love my Harman's. Very easy to maintain even with the ashiest of pellets. The hopper extension is great too although I would take that 140# with a grain of salt - but you can get a nice long burn out of it.

If the Bosca is to the point that you need to replace it, I would go with the Harman. But if it runs well, heats your house (you haven't run the oil burner since you got the Bosca) and you spend minimal upkeep $, then I would think long and hard about replacing it. Also, you may want to think about getting a second stove to help heat areas that need it. If the Bosca doesn't have to work as hard, it may not be as dirty.

And, there is no guarantee that the P68 will actually handle your house by itself. Case in point; My P61a should easily heat my 650 sq/ft basement and 950 sq/ft main floor. Unfortunately the air currents don't carry the heat where I need it; even with holes cut in floors and lots of vent fans it would be near 90* in the basement and in the 40's in the bedrooms (living room and kitchen were in low 70's), so I ended up with another stove (Harman P43) on my main floor. I would have been better served to buy 2 smaller stoves at the same time (my original plan) as to buying the P61a and then still having to get another stove.

Of course there are plenty of other people that heat a couple of floors, and way more sq/footage just fine with a P61 or P68. So it is hard to say what exactly to do in your circumstance. But, you may look into what it will cost for two P43's and put one on each floor or just one P43 as a supplement to the Bosca (you may even be able to find some lightly used stoves for a great discount in price).

I have a quadrafire 1200 in my split level, 1000 square-foot main floor home. It sits in the basemen which is finished. It simply convects the air in the stairwell and does heat the whole house nicely even around about 5 below celsius. lower than that and it laggs a bit. but we don't get much colder. By the sounds of it I would be better off with a larger capacity Harmon variety, preferably with a 2" auger, or larger. Mine needs a lot of cleaning and maintennance and is a bit dirty. oh well. I love thw fact that I never get a fuel bill.

 

[Wessty]

Take a look at the Drolet Eco-65. It is a bottom feeder like the Harman, for half the price. My first winter with one, I've found it easy to clean and maintain. It's also Canadian made.