Hearth.com for swimming pools?

[Gooserider]

Looking for advice and / or a pointer for something I need to fix on our in ground swimming pool... Way off topic for the Hearth, but perhaps someone can point me to the equivalent sort of forum for pool people? (All the ones I've found seem to be linked to some manufacturer or dealer that just wants to push their own products...)

My problem is with our filter - We have a D.E. (Diatomaceous Earth) filter for our pool, that is elderly, but works well. The problem with it is that the grids in it keep getting holes in them, which results in loosing filtration, and getting the D.E. washing back into the pool, along with the crud the filter should be taking out. We can get new replacement grids, but they are expensive and hard to find.

However the grids are essentially nothing more than plastic frames covered with a fabric filter material of some sort - the plastic frames are in perfectly fine shape, the only problem is with the filter material that has gotten holes in it. Does anyone know if it's possible to get the grids re-covered? I can't see why it wouldn't be possible - I could probably even do it myself if I could get the right sort of fabric and thread...

Gooserider

 

[fossil]

Try some of your old pantyhose, Goose. ;-P Rick

 

[gpcollen1]

Hey Goose

I grew up out of High School working on pools, did it summers during college and still dabble for family and friends. I have never heard of anyone covering them with fabric themselves but that does not mean it does not happen.

My biggest issue with the industry is the cost of replacement parts for this seasonal industry. They really get you. That said, those grids do take a beating in all that water flowing through there with chlorine and backwashing and pressure. My biggest suggestion is water chemistry is your friend. if you are on of those 'my water is clear so i am fine' guys then that might be your issue. Balanced water chemistry saves liners and pumps and filters. Other things to look at is maybe your sizing of your filter to your pump. How high does the pressure get in that filter? Is your chorinator after the filter or before?

Well, that is all I can think of. My cousin has a Hayward VG4800 and she did not have one grid hole/tear for 8 years. Has replaced 2 grids each of the last two years. Generally I would say it is just an age thing but operating conditions and water balance can make this happen.

I'll check with a buddy in the biz and see what he thinks.

 

[Gooserider]

Hey Goose

I grew up out of High School working on pools, did it summers during college and still dabble for family and friends. I have never heard of anyone covering them with fabric themselves but that does not mean it does not happen.

My biggest issue with the industry is the cost of replacement parts for this seasonal industry. They really get you. That said, those grids do take a beating in all that water flowing through there with chlorine and backwashing and pressure. My biggest suggestion is water chemistry is your friend. if you are on of those 'my water is clear so i am fine' guys then that might be your issue. Balanced water chemistry saves liners and pumps and filters. Other things to look at is maybe your sizing of your filter to your pump. How high does the pressure get in that filter? Is your chorinator after the filter or before?

Well, that is all I can think of. My cousin has a Hayward VG4800 and she did not have one grid hole/tear for 8 years. Has replaced 2 grids each of the last two years. Generally I would say it is just an age thing but operating conditions and water balance can make this happen.

I'll check with a buddy in the biz and see what he thinks.

Well I'm not a fanatic on chemistry, but we keep it relatively close most of the time. Usually my pattern is that we have a real battle with it every time we open the pool (which is in-ground, gunnite, not painted, about 16K gallons) and it takes 2-3 weeks to get it into shape, but then it stays pretty good until fall... We use a Meyco cover in the winter, but it sags on us, so we end up with major "leaf tea" - I've been putting air pillows under the cover which helps, but we still have a black lagoon at openning. The rest of the year we have a lot of leaves and other tree debris, but it's manageable. I do tend to run on the light end of the chlorine scale, but the pool gets relatively light use, mostly just the GF and I, and she doesn't use it that much...

Our filter is presumably the one that came with the pool - which is more than 15 and less than 30 years old, (it was put in by the previous owner, but we aren't sure just when) we've replaced all the grids at least once. The pump has also been rebuilt / replaced at least once (thanks to some incompetent pool techs that left it plugged in on the timer after closing the pool >:-( ) but far as we know, it's the same size as the original. With a fresh clean filter we usually see about 5-7 PSI on the gauage on top of the filter, when it gets over 15-20 it pretty much stops flowing, and we have to backwash. What I have found in the past is that I'd need to backwash DAILY 3-4 times in a row when openning, then once the water was reasonably clear, we would need to backwash about once a month or so.

In addition to the filter we have a Polaris robot w/ booster pump that Tees off the output of the filter.

We don't currently have a clorinator - I tried one that spliced into directly into the filter return line, and was not at all happy with the way it worked. We have picked up a couple of Hayward clorinators that look like they use some thin lines, but haven't taken the time to try to hook them up yet. We originally used "Stingy Sticks" in the skimmer basket, but I got tired of having to separate the partly used sticks from the other crud the skimmer collected, so now we use a floater w/ 1" tabs.

Gooserider

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm personally getting a kick out of reading a thread about swimming pools when I'm looking outside at close to 3 feet of snow on the ground still. . . .

 

[Ugly]

I use an old swimming pool filter I bought at an auction to clean sugar beet juice prior to putting it in a dairy tank for fermentation. I replaced the mesh screen with stainless steel mesh and attached it to the support frame on BOTH sides using JB weld. Two years later and it's still working and at a lot higher pressure than they are designed for. I bought the stainless dutch weave at Mcmaster Carr.

Ultrafine-Filtering Type 304 Stainless Steel Dutch-Weave Wire Cloth

I'm one of those guys who always tries to make it better than it was when I got it if I have to take it apart. Hope that gives you an idea.

 

[tenax]

here's one of my 2 favorites..they helped me a lot when i was doing a bunch of renovations and upgrades to my pool.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/index.php

 

[gpcollen1]

Sounds like you are doing things pretty well aside from this issue. I am still waiting for a response on grid material and ideas from a my buddy.

Sounds like the pressure is good when clean and chlorine is in check. I do like the auto chlorinators hayward makes. Just drill a hole in the pump discharge piping for the water feed and drill one in the return line after the filter for the chlorine to flow and hook it up - pretty simple. They do need some annual maintenance though - orings/gaskets, tubing and all in that chlorine get beat up.

That Meyco cover - mesh I assume? We only installed loop-locs. either way the covers sag if leaves pile up and you do get all the blowing dust and pollen in the pool that gives that tea like quality in the spring. I always recommend throwing in 5 gallons of CL in there in April/May prior to opening it up to help keep it cleaner for opening.

I wonder if you could just sew some patches on them with fishing line when they rip/get holes?? You could use new material or some of the old??

 

[Gooserider]

firefighterjake:
I’m personally getting a kick out of reading a thread about swimming pools when I’m looking outside at close to 3 feet of snow on the ground still. . . .

I kind of agree, I'm certainly not planning on swimming any time soon! But this is something I have to fix one way or another before we open the pool, so I have to think about it now, not wait until opening season...

Ugly
I use an old swimming pool filter I bought at an auction to clean sugar beet juice prior to putting it in a dairy tank for fermentation. I replaced the mesh screen with stainless steel mesh and attached it to the support frame on BOTH sides using JB weld. Two years later and it’s still working and at a lot higher pressure than they are designed for. I bought the stainless dutch weave at Mcmaster Carr.

Ultrafine-Filtering Type 304 Stainless Steel Dutch-Weave Wire Cloth

I’m one of those guys who always tries to make it better than it was when I got it if I have to take it apart. Hope that gives you an idea.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it would work in a pool environment - The chlorine in a pool is really nasty to pool parts, and they are VERY fussy about what you can use in contact w/ pool water - I think I can count on one hand the number of metal parts in our entire pool system, and they are among the higher replacement frequency items... Not only is direct corrosion an issue, but they also worry about even minute trace amonts of metal serving to feed algae and so forth... Stainless might work, but I'd be real worried about the JB Weld... Perhaps some other form of adhesive, or maybe sewing?

tenax
here’s one of my 2 favorites..they helped me a lot when i was doing a bunch of renovations and upgrades to my pool.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/index.php

Thanks - haven't registered there yet, but they do look good from just the list of forum areas...

CTwoodburner:
Sounds like you are doing things pretty well aside from this issue. I am still waiting for a response on grid material and ideas from a my buddy.

Sounds like the pressure is good when clean and chlorine is in check. I do like the auto chlorinators hayward makes. Just drill a hole in the pump discharge piping for the water feed and drill one in the return line after the filter for the chlorine to flow and hook it up - pretty simple. They do need some annual maintenance though - orings/gaskets, tubing and all in that chlorine get beat up.

That Meyco cover - mesh I assume? We only installed loop-locs. either way the covers sag if leaves pile up and you do get all the blowing dust and pollen in the pool that gives that tea like quality in the spring. I always recommend throwing in 5 gallons of CL in there in April/May prior to opening it up to help keep it cleaner for opening.

I wonder if you could just sew some patches on them with fishing line when they rip/get holes?? You could use new material or some of the old??

Yes, the Meyco covers are mesh. Not neccesarily a bad thing, as it means that even though I had to pump the pool down about 2 feet to close it, by the time spring opening rolls around, we are usually topped up between the rain and snow melt... Our cover mostly does a good job of keeping the crud off, as advertised, the leaves blow off pretty well when it's dry. They generally don't start to build up until we get some rain that cakes them down, and then the weight of the wet leaves pushes the cover into the water and keeps them from drying and blowing away... Putting the air pillows in the pool helps, but doesn't completely cure the problem, especially since they often leak or break...

I've thought about patching the filter fabric, but have been hesitant as taking apart a DE filter mid season is a REAL PITA... I don't want to go back in if the patch doesn't work... I've also noticed that once the grid gets a hole in it, it seems to "run" like a sock, and generally be pretty fragile - I don't know that a patch would hold.

At any rate, thanks for the suggestions, I will probably also try asking over on that forum that Tenax pointed me at...

Gooserider

 

[Ugly]

There are types of JB that are inert to chlorine at temps to 100c. You'd need 316 Stainless for a chlorine environment on closer inspection, so my thoughts don't cut the mustard for your purposes. The 304 would rust in that environment.

Materials made of PEEK would also be inert in that environment, but they're pricey as hell for mesh screen. Virgin PTFE mesh is way more reasonable and is also inert in a chlorine environment and can literally filter talc in the smallest sizes - pretty affordable stuff.

You just need to know the screen size you're replacing, Mcmaster-Carr carries all the things I've mentioned.

 

[johnn]

Gooserider:
I also use "DE" filter probably 20 years old give or take. If memory serves LOMART Ultima 5000, which I have replaced 3 of the bags. Buy not replacing all, the job was a little more difficult due to the wear in the seat area, made the original bags a little shorter, and i wasn`t sure a good seal would happen on the new ones. However things worked. Years ago, I used "DE" to filter fish tanks and the bags were more a cloth rather than the plastic and am not sure if the filter could be covered with a cloth. Mine are all glued on with an epoxy looking glue and im not sure of patching is doable or not.For covering the pool, I use large intertubes tied together under the cover which creates a dome for run-off, its held in position with a gallon milk container filled with sand dropped through the center to the pool bottom and tied to intertubes. This can create wind catching issues if the sides are not well tied down. Personally I feel that sun and rain play more havoc to the covers than it sitting on top of water and holding water .

Ive used siphon to empty seasonal water off cover and netting the leaves off,only to find out the cover leaks and my good water also gets drained. this is when i allowed the cover to be supported by the pool water. Ill be getting a pump capable of volumne soon!

 

[johnn]

Didn`t mention that breaking the 1" tablets into 4 pieces will make keeping chlorine level easier:
Opening pool and heavy filtering reqiures more back washing than thought. DE get saturated fairly quickly.
Pressure climb may be too high causing bag failure, try backwashing at 5 lbs rise in pressure.
Get that "PH"LEVEL right first,,makes other adjustment much easier
IF you put stabilizer in last year,,,try skipping it this year until chlorine level are difficult to maintain.
GGOD LUCK

 

[kenny chaos]

We don't need any of that stuff for the pond. ;-P

 

[Gooserider]

Well for the sake of others with pools - I found the Poolforum link that Tenax pointed me at had a lot of good info, but there is apparently some sort of real "Soap Opera" going on behind the scenes, with the bottom line result being that one can no longer register there, which means you can't ask questions and so forth. A lot of good info, but if there isn't a thread already there that answers what you would have asked you are kind of stuck... However I did find a link there to these folks - troublefreepool.com who appear to have started their site as a result of the problems on PoolForum, and have a lot of the same members, and a similar approach to pool care. I've posted my question, but haven't seen any response in the hour or two since (not a problem...) however they seem to have a lot of good info and a very positive and helpful attitude - though they do solicit for cash donations (but don't have any advertising).

Seems like a good site for those with pool questions.

Gooserider

 

[tenax]

yeah,the founder of poolforums sort of disappeared and i believe mods/admins took it over. i knew about troublefreepools.com and heartily endorse it (and no, you don't have to pay money) and it's a great site. i couldn't remember the name of the site though. my apologies and hope you find what you are looking for there..

 

[Gooserider]

yeah,the founder of poolforums sort of disappeared and i believe mods/admins took it over. i knew about troublefreepools.com and heartily endorse it (and no, you don't have to pay money) and it's a great site. i couldn't remember the name of the site though. my apologies and hope you find what you are looking for there..

No problem, at least you got me started in the right direction... The site seems a bit slow, but that might have something to do with the season... I had a minor battle this afternoon just getting at the pool equipment enough to pull the label info off it, but have now posted more specifics about just what I have over there, hopefully will see something soon...

Gooserider

 

[tenax]

you're probably right about the time of year, goose. as i'm in alberta i was usually on it from about may to august...haven't had to go there for quite awhile after i did my major equipment rebuild. unfortunately, i use a sand filter with zonite or whatever it's called for material so i can't help you

 

[Gooserider]

Well assuming for the moment that I can't get the existing grids repaired or replaced for fairly short money, one of the questions is whether to just replace the entire unit - and if so, with what kind of filter... My working assumption is that if I change the filter, I'm going to need to do a major replumbing job no matter what, which would have it's own virtues, as what I have now is more than a bit of a kludge...

Gooserider

 

[tenax]

for what it's worth, my sand filter is 30 years old now and it still going strong. (albeit, the pool only goes in our climate 5 months per year) i don't know if prior owners ever changed the sand. i went 7 years before i decided to change it not because it seemed to need it, but i was installing new electrical, pump, ngas furnace and a chlorine generator so i figured i may as well finish the job off.