Heating Strategies

[Utilitrack]

We got caught up in the "Great Pellet Stove Rush of 2008" and bought a stove. I tried to heat exclusively with the stove, while still using the boiler for domestic hot water, end up burning 3+ tons of pellets for the year as well as 300 gallons of HHO. Looking for ideas to to use combo of both systems to effectively heat our 1,800' Cape Cod style home this winter. Lopi Leyden 45K BTU stove on main level with 3 tons of LG's.

We bought the stove to diversify heating options, it was not a political statement, so I have no issues using both fossil fuels and wood pellets. Anyways looking for suggestions/experiences to maximize the use of both alternatives. My wife and I both work during day, so heating house during the day is only for the dog's comfort.

If suggestions include programmable t-stats please let me know which model and which appliance to run with it, settings would be helpful as well heating hours for each appliance. Thanks in advance for your wisdom and experience.

 

[HEMI]

We got caught up in the "Great Pellet Stove Rush of 2008" and bought a stove. I tried to heat exclusively with the stove, while still using the boiler for domestic hot water, end up burning 3+ tons of pellets for the year as well as 300 gallons of HHO. Looking for ideas to to use combo of both systems to effectively heat our 1,800' Cape Cod style home this winter. Lopi Leyden 45K BTU stove on main level with 3 tons of LG's.

We bought the stove to diversify heating options, it was not a political statement, so I have no issues using both fossil fuels and wood pellets. Anyways looking for suggestions/experiences to maximize the use of both alternatives. My wife and I both work during day, so heating house during the day is only for the dog's comfort.

If suggestions include programmable t-stats please let me know which model and which appliance to run with it, settings would be helpful as well heating hours for each appliance. Thanks in advance for your wisdom and experience.

I dont see any reason why you cant heat the whole home on pellets, 1800 sq ft?....I heat a 2200 sq ft colonial on an englander designed to heat 1500 sq ft, and my main floor is 72-74, upstairs 67-68. I use no other source for heat!

 

[mnkywrnch]

Hemi makes a great point heating your whole house with pellets should work just fine.

 

[TboneMan]

My main heat source is a propane forced air furnace (all other heating appliances are propane also). We purchase a Quad 1200 two years ago, like you, for diversification. I have a Honeywell (cheap) programmable thermostat install right next to my furnace thermostat and am heating 2500 sqrft. in the "snowbelt" of central NY. Our dog is also the only one home during the day. I'm direct vented so I have to account for a rare but occasional power outage so I have UPS connected to the stove will keep the stove running (no ignitions) for at least an hour.

Here's what I've been doing:

I program the PS thermostat to shut down (set at a low temp. , say 55 deg F) for 4-5 hours during the middle of the day.
I program the furn thermostat to keep the house at a minimum of 65 during this period (it rarely fires during this period, only the coldest, windiest, cloudiest days).


Both t-stats are set to ramp up the house temp 1 hour before we typically leave work. The PS t-stat is set 5 deg higher than the furnace t-stat. This keeps the pellet stove running while the furnace recovers the house temp. up to 72 deg. Once the furnace has recovered the house temp, the pellet stove maintains the temp in the house (on all but the coldest of nights) running pretty much constantly (again, it is trying to heat 5 more deg than the furnace). By itself the PS can not recover the house temp to this level.

I've used just shy of 5 ton of pellets the past two years. My propane usage went from an average (annual) usage of 850 gal down to 200 gal. Even paying $250/ton for pellets, as I did this year, I'm still a bit ahead, and WAY MORE COMFORTABLE!

 

[Clay H]

In the past 5 years i have relyed entirely on the pellet stove. OK is not as cold as up north obviously which means i only use 2 - 2.5 tons each season to heat 1800'. One problem i have always had is i have to set the stove (pellet feed rate) according to what the weather man says its going to do outside each night. If its a typical 29-30 degree December night, i leave the stove on low (1) and in the morning the house is still close to 70 in the living room and 65 ish in the bed rooms...not too bad. If its colder than that I would get up and bump on the propane furnace to run 15 minutes and go back off. On nights when the temps drop into the lower 20s or high teens, i have to set the stove up on about level 3 (it goes to 6) for it to keep up therefor using pellets at a much faster rate.
This year i have a new programable thermostat and i think with propane cost down (i think 1.50/gal) from last year and pellet prices up (300/ton), i will set the thermostat to come on more and leave the stove turned down on low and my pelet consumption may be closer to 1.75 tons instead of 2.5 saving me only about 150 bucks on pellets but my current propane consumption is only 200 gal./year Other than my furnace, the water heater is the only other propane consummer.
And I'm putting in a tankless/on demand water heater this month which will use 45% less fuel as advertised.
Also i am going to put more blown insulation in the attic next month...that is the single most important thing you can do to minimize heat loss in the winter. Second to that is to have good quality windows.

 

[Utilitrack]

Thanks for the feedback Tboneman
Now the rest of the story- I did easily heat the entire house last winter with the Lopi only, but with the price of oil being very comparable it makes sense to me to use both. I believe that some of the boiler issues I had last spring were related to inconsistent use. So i guess what I am looking to do is to use both fuels as effeiently as possible, like I probably burned tons of pellets during the days last year when no one was home to enjoy the heat

 

[Romy]

stacking bagged pellets really warms me up -don't even need a thermostat.

 

[amick780]

I like TboneMan heat my house with the PS alone, 2900 sq/ft colonial with forced air propane. The PS heats the whole house 85% of the time, other then real cold (10 degrees or lower) windy nights or cold cloudy days. As much as I don't like using fossil fuels I would use the oil in the day when the house is empty as long as its cheap. I am sure you can turn the thermostat for the furnace down a bit and the dog won't mind. I would be surprised if the furnace kicks on much at all. Just set the thermo to recover the house prior to coming home. I myself just turn down the PS during the day Harman room temp setting around 64, it still keeps the downstairs plenty warm. My wife turns it up when she gets home.

 

[TboneMan]

In the past 5 years i have relyed entirely on the pellet stove. OK is not as cold as up north obviously which means i only use 2 - 2.5 tons each season to heat 1800'. One problem i have always had is i have to set the stove (pellet feed rate) according to what the weather man says its going to do outside each night. If its a typical 29-30 degree December night, i leave the stove on low (1) and in the morning the house is still close to 70 in the living room and 65 ish in the bed rooms...not too bad. If its colder than that I would get up and bump on the propane furnace to run 15 minutes and go back off. On nights when the temps drop into the lower 20s or high teens, i have to set the stove up on about level 3 (it goes to 6) for it to keep up therefor using pellets at a much faster rate.
This year i have a new programable thermostat and i think with propane cost down (i think 1.50/gal) from last year and pellet prices up (300/ton), i will set the thermostat to come on more and leave the stove turned down on low and my pelet consumption may be closer to 1.75 tons instead of 2.5 saving me only about 150 bucks on pellets but my current propane consumption is only 200 gal./year Other than my furnace, the water heater is the only other propane consummer.
And I'm putting in a tankless/on demand water heater this month which will use 45% less fuel as advertised.
Also i am going to put more blown insulation in the attic next month...that is the single most important thing you can do to minimize heat loss in the winter. Second to that is to have good quality windows.

Clay, I've had a on demand HWH for about a year and a half. My calculation put the saving (on HW only) in the 60% range! Mind you, there are just two adults in the house. They take a little getting use to, but they make a lot of sense (and cents).

 

[defield]

Utilitrack,

Regarding the part of your questions about programable thermostats:

We have a Lopi Leyden, an oil hot water baseboard system, and an older HS Tarm wood boiler connected in parallel with the oil furnace.

There are two hard wired, wall mounted ( within inches of each other), programable thermostats, one for the oil furnace and one controlling the Lopi. ( The wood boiler has an internal thermostatic draft damper, and being in parallel with the oil furnace, the draft damper, and the oil furnace thermostat do much of the controlling. )

The oil furnace uses an older Honeywell unit.

Bought a new Honeywell thermostat for the Lopi and could not get it to work properly, even after contacting their tech support. Returned it. A fellow Hearth.com member suggested a "ritetemp" programable unit from The Home Depot. Works great.

As far as programming for your home, have you tested to be sure that your pellet stove UPS and/or natural draft is adequate to prevent smoke from entering the house in the event of a power failure. The answer to that somewhat determines how you should program for the daytime with no one home.

Ranger

 

[Clay H]

In the past 5 years i have relyed entirely on the pellet stove. OK is not as cold as up north obviously which means i only use 2 - 2.5 tons each season to heat 1800'. One problem i have always had is i have to set the stove (pellet feed rate) according to what the weather man says its going to do outside each night. If its a typical 29-30 degree December night, i leave the stove on low (1) and in the morning the house is still close to 70 in the living room and 65 ish in the bed rooms...not too bad. If its colder than that I would get up and bump on the propane furnace to run 15 minutes and go back off. On nights when the temps drop into the lower 20s or high teens, i have to set the stove up on about level 3 (it goes to 6) for it to keep up therefor using pellets at a much faster rate.
This year i have a new programable thermostat and i think with propane cost down (i think 1.50/gal) from last year and pellet prices up (300/ton), i will set the thermostat to come on more and leave the stove turned down on low and my pelet consumption may be closer to 1.75 tons instead of 2.5 saving me only about 150 bucks on pellets but my current propane consumption is only 200 gal./year Other than my furnace, the water heater is the only other propane consummer.
And I'm putting in a tankless/on demand water heater this month which will use 45% less fuel as advertised.
Also i am going to put more blown insulation in the attic next month...that is the single most important thing you can do to minimize heat loss in the winter. Second to that is to have good quality windows.

Clay, I've had a on demand HWH for about a year and a half. My calculation put the saving (on HW only) in the 60% range! Mind you, there are just two adults in the house. They take a little getting use to, but they make a lot of sense (and cents).

Kool! 60 % would be great - there is 3 in our house so that might be a stretch.
What is there to get used to?

 

[TboneMan]

In the past 5 years i have relyed entirely on the pellet stove. OK is not as cold as up north obviously which means i only use 2 - 2.5 tons each season to heat 1800'. One problem i have always had is i have to set the stove (pellet feed rate) according to what the weather man says its going to do outside each night. If its a typical 29-30 degree December night, i leave the stove on low (1) and in the morning the house is still close to 70 in the living room and 65 ish in the bed rooms...not too bad. If its colder than that I would get up and bump on the propane furnace to run 15 minutes and go back off. On nights when the temps drop into the lower 20s or high teens, i have to set the stove up on about level 3 (it goes to 6) for it to keep up therefor using pellets at a much faster rate.
This year i have a new programable thermostat and i think with propane cost down (i think 1.50/gal) from last year and pellet prices up (300/ton), i will set the thermostat to come on more and leave the stove turned down on low and my pelet consumption may be closer to 1.75 tons instead of 2.5 saving me only about 150 bucks on pellets but my current propane consumption is only 200 gal./year Other than my furnace, the water heater is the only other propane consummer.
And I'm putting in a tankless/on demand water heater this month which will use 45% less fuel as advertised.
Also i am going to put more blown insulation in the attic next month...that is the single most important thing you can do to minimize heat loss in the winter. Second to that is to have good quality windows.

Clay, I've had a on demand HWH for about a year and a half. My calculation put the saving (on HW only) in the 60% range! Mind you, there are just two adults in the house. They take a little getting use to, but they make a lot of sense (and cents).

Kool! 60 % would be great - there is 3 in our house so that might be a stretch.
What is there to get used to?

Depending on how long your plumbing runs are, it can take a bit of time to get hot water to your location. In the case of a shower (no tub fill spigot) with a low flow head, it can take 30-45 seconds before you get hot water. Also, there is what's referred to a "cold water sandwich". There a brief time between when you turn on a faucet and when hot water is actually produced. During this period cold water is being pushed through the pipes. If you have just run hot water through a faucet, turned it off and then turned it on again, you'll get a surge of cold or just slightly warm water after initially feeling hot.

Something to keep in mind when doing dishes (and not running water contently) or using a shower back to back. Especially in the shower scenario, you don't want to step in and at about the same time the cold water surge occurs. :-0

As for the 60% savings, we both work and have busy "after work" lives (community org. meetings and such). This means there are days, the only hot water we use is for showers (we both grew up with water/energy miser parents too, so they are generally short showers). The morning coffee cup and dishes from "quicky" dinners will wait a couple of days before being washed. The "on demand" system makes a lot of sense with our busy lifestyle. There's no sense in making hot water that isn't being used!

 

[Clay H]

In the past 5 years i have relyed entirely on the pellet stove. OK is not as cold as up north obviously which means i only use 2 - 2.5 tons each season to heat 1800'. One problem i have always had is i have to set the stove (pellet feed rate) according to what the weather man says its going to do outside each night. If its a typical 29-30 degree December night, i leave the stove on low (1) and in the morning the house is still close to 70 in the living room and 65 ish in the bed rooms...not too bad. If its colder than that I would get up and bump on the propane furnace to run 15 minutes and go back off. On nights when the temps drop into the lower 20s or high teens, i have to set the stove up on about level 3 (it goes to 6) for it to keep up therefor using pellets at a much faster rate.
This year i have a new programable thermostat and i think with propane cost down (i think 1.50/gal) from last year and pellet prices up (300/ton), i will set the thermostat to come on more and leave the stove turned down on low and my pelet consumption may be closer to 1.75 tons instead of 2.5 saving me only about 150 bucks on pellets but my current propane consumption is only 200 gal./year Other than my furnace, the water heater is the only other propane consummer.
And I'm putting in a tankless/on demand water heater this month which will use 45% less fuel as advertised.
Also i am going to put more blown insulation in the attic next month...that is the single most important thing you can do to minimize heat loss in the winter. Second to that is to have good quality windows.

Clay, I've had a on demand HWH for about a year and a half. My calculation put the saving (on HW only) in the 60% range! Mind you, there are just two adults in the house. They take a little getting use to, but they make a lot of sense (and cents).

Kool! 60 % would be great - there is 3 in our house so that might be a stretch.
What is there to get used to?

Depending on how long your plumbing runs are, it can take a bit of time to get hot water to your location. In the case of a shower (no tub fill spigot) with a low flow head, it can take 30-45 seconds before you get hot water. Also, there is what's referred to a "cold water sandwich". There a brief time between when you turn on a faucet and when hot water is actually produced. During this period cold water is being pushed through the pipes. If you have just run hot water through a faucet, turned it off and then turned it on again, you'll get a surge of cold or just slightly warm water after initially feeling hot.

Something to keep in mind when doing dishes (and not running water contently) or using a shower back to back. Especially in the shower scenario, you don't want to step in and at about the same time the cold water surge occurs. :-0

As for the 60% savings, we both work and have busy "after work" lives (community org. meetings and such). This means there are days, the only hot water we use is for showers (we both grew up with water/energy miser parents too, so they are generally short showers). The morning coffee cup and dishes from "quicky" dinners will wait a couple of days before being washed. The "on demand" system makes a lot of sense with our busy lifestyle. There's no sense in making hot water that isn't being used!

Thats going to be the same situation no mater what kind of water heater you have. Currently i have to turn the shower on and then go back to the sink and brush my teeth and by the time i'm done, i have hot water at the shower head. Delivery rate from the heater to the faucet will not change with this heater. The cold water sandwitch makes sense and i'll remember that.
Thanks.

 

[smalltown]

Interesting thread. This will be our first season with a pellet stove. Our small Cape Cod style home was originally all electric (ouch) then in later years we added a wood stove. Next we converted over to baseboard hot water with an oil fired boiler, but we aksed for a cold start boiler. We ended up with a System 2000 that has served us well. What's the best for us is that from late spring to October the boiler does not fire up unless there is a need to heat hot water. I have a seperate zone for my superstore water tank. It catches me off guard each year when one cold night I say to my wife "what's that noise" to which she replies "it's the boiler". I guess what I am trying to add in my long winded fashion is that even though you switch to pellets, chunk wood or coal most boilers are still maintaining you boiler temperature 24 hours a day. The addition of a hot water on demand unit would be a great idea, but you would need to switch off the boiler completely to save the most dollars. Not sure if that's a maintenance issue with a regular boiler not starting even once in a while or not.

 

[flowercat]

There are many ways to run oil and or wood pellets. I have a oil furance that heats our hot water and baseboard water heat. I have a smaller house in the north east that has ony one zone. I use the oil hot water all year and the heater only when the weather is very cold (negative temperatures). When I use the oil heat I turn off the pellet stove. I have an Englander that can heat the entire house reasonaly well. The major issue is that upstairs the rooms don't get as much heat because the wood stove is located down stairs and heat isn't piped into each room. Last winter I used about 1/4 - 1/2 of a tank full of oil even though I heated qauite a few cold nights with oil heat and the hot water was heated all winter with the tank located in a cool area. If I had another zone upstairs I might set the temperpature where the oil heat would come on if the rooms aren't a certain temperature.

 

[Uconn411]

I'm in a similar situation to you. Have baseboard heat in a 2 story, 2100 sq.ft Colonial house, with a Lopi Leyden pellet stove. I was leaving it on during the day when I was away at work. But sometimes the burn pot would over flow even after cleaning it in the morning, and I would come home to a huge mess of pellets that were lit in the burn pot. So now that oil is cheap again, I plan to use oil heat as my primary, but keep the temps low until I come home. Then, I will turn on the pellet stove, and use that heat for the night. I shut it of before going to bed. I only use digital thermostats in my 2 zones. I do not use one on the pellet stove b/c I do not want to prematurely wear out a $150 igniter.

6am-7:45am Oil heat = 68 degrees.
8am-4pm Oil Heat = 60 degrees.
4pm onwards I turn on my stove.
Turn off stove around 11pm, and Oil heat is set to 62 for the night.

I'd also say if you have drafty windows like me, to use some removable caulk. It made a world of difference to put it around a 9ft section of windows I have in the front of the house, then peel it off in the summer. Home Depot sells it:

(broken link removed to http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=20)

 

[Utilitrack]

I'm in a similar situation to you. Have baseboard heat in a 2 story, 2100 sq.ft Colonial house, with a Lopi Leyden pellet stove. I was leaving it on during the day when I was away at work. But sometimes the burn pot would over flow even after cleaning it in the morning, and I would come home to a huge mess of pellets that were lit in the burn pot. So now that oil is cheap again, I plan to use oil heat as my primary, but keep the temps low until I come home. Then, I will turn on the pellet stove, and use that heat for the night. I shut it of before going to bed. I only use digital thermostats in my 2 zones. I do not use one on the pellet stove b/c I do not want to prematurely wear out a $150 igniter.

6am-7:45am Oil heat = 68 degrees.
8am-4pm Oil Heat = 60 degrees.
4pm onwards I turn on my stove.
Turn off stove around 11pm, and Oil heat is set to 62 for the night.

I'd also say if you have drafty windows like me, to use some removable caulk. It made a world of difference to put it around a 9ft section of windows I have in the front of the house, then peel it off in the summer. Home Depot sells it:

(broken link removed to http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=20)

Thanks UConn-Go Huskies