Heavy creosote build up

[Murray01]

Recently purchased a cabin from my father in law that has a Blaze King model KEJ 1102. We only use it during the shoulder seasons and never in the winter. I have downloaded the instruction/installation manual and have been reading up on the stove. This summer I finally gave it a good cleaning. Last year I found a brand new catalytic burner tucked away in a cupboard, once I figured out what it was for I inspected the one in the stove and discovered that the old one had about one quarter of the honeycomb was rotted out. I replaced the old one, that helped big time with getting the thermometer into the active zone. This year I took all the stove pipe apart and gave it a good clean, I have about 80% fine black/brown dust and 20% creosote(hard flakey material) cleaned best I could but couldn’t get to bare metal. Same with the chimney 80/20 ratio. Next I turned to the broken fire bricks on the back of the firebox, I had to pry them out, they were stuck on due to creosote buildup, likewise with the sides and to a lesser extent the bottom bricks. Scraped the buildup off the sides and back of the firebox best I could. The rest of the firebox was 2 days chipping and scraping creosote, in the corners I encountered 1/2”-3/4” of creosote. Between the outside wall and a firebox wall is a space about 3/4”, it was plugged full of creosote, with a small screwdriver and bent coat hanger I cleaned it best I could. Can’t really get my fingers in there but I think I got most of it. All in all I collected 2 1kg coffee tins of creosote plus whatever the vacuum cleaned up, likely another coffee tin worth.
What I know about about the stove and pipe:
Blaze King model KEJ 1102 7”pipe
Single wall stove pipe 8’ straight up into 8’ of insulated chimney
Door and window gaskets leaking, both replaced yesterday.
Wood is primarily Jack pine, I’ve been mixing 10 year out seasoned wood with 2 year old seasoned wood. I don’t own a moisture meter but will get one.

I think my problem is a combination of a mixed bag of wet/dry wood and not running stove hot enough long enough. The other issue is poor maintenance while my father in law was using the stove. As I was cleaning the buildup I kept thinking that I’m lucky that I didn’t have a creosote fine in the firebox.

An suggestions/ideas/criticisms are welcomed. This is my fire cat wood stove. Thank you for reading this long winded post.

 

[Highbeam]

These things get pretty nasty in the firebox. It is common to pop off chunks of 1/2" thick crusty creosote from the corners especially. It's kinda like a black lava cookie. Only with a very hot fire can the firebox somewhat self clean.

The chimney on a BK is also not known to be as clean as you might expect for a stove with such a low emissions rating and high efficiency. See, to burn at such a low rate means the exhaust gas temperature often falls below the condensation temperature of water so the flue is exposed to a lot of wetness and dry cycles which accumulates debris. Usually black, often flakey. Over 90% of the time the stoves are run on low, statistically, according to industry research and BK. Low and slow is where it's at. That just means creosote in the firebox and especially with pine.

Oh and that lame void behind the inner steel panels is a bugger to clean. It is easier to keep the void clean than to try and recover from years of neglect.

I get a lot more creosote in my stove and chimney of the BK than a did with a modern noncat on the same hearth and using the same fuel.

Since this is a new stove to you and you checked the gaskets, please check the bypass frame and gasket. Hopefully it's nice and flat and not melted.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

do you have any pics of the chimney after you swept it out. I know you said that you couldn’t get to bare metal. Did you notice any hard shiny buildup that couldn’t be removed? Almost like a layer of black glassy looking stuff.
Sounds like you removed a bit of stage 1 and 2 creosote. Just making sure what’s left in chimney is not stage 3 creosote.

 

[BKVP]

OP hit it on the head! Lack of maintenance. I have owned 3 of our King models. 1102, 1107 and now KE40. All were tested and tortured in my home before they hit the market. None has had the accumulation referenced in this post.

The combustor failure was likely due to the leaking glass and door gasket. If fuel was wet or snow laden, that too could have resulted in thermal shock.

Follow operating instructions to have periodic high burns to keep creosote issues in the firebox to a minimum.

Your 1102 does not have a bypass gasket or retainers. The bypass is 1/2" steel and therefore no need to look for them.

If your flue collar measures 7", that stove was purchased in Canada. All 1102's sold in the USA were 8" diameter flue collars.

As for cleaning behind the baffles, go to your local welding supply store (our TrueValue has welding supplies) and purchase a round wire, flexible shaft brush. That and burning correctly will be of great benefit.

I've also owned other EPA (1990's) non catalytic stoves (2) and both had clean 15' chimneys....just like my 3 King stoves.

Proper operation, conditioned fuel and annual maintenance allows any modern stove to provide warmth and peace of mind.

Good job O.P.

BKVP

 

[Murray01]

These things get pretty nasty in the firebox. It is common to pop off chunks of 1/2" thick crusty creosote from the corners especially. It's kinda like a black lava cookie. Only with a very hot fire can the firebox somewhat self clean.

The chimney on a BK is also not known to be as clean as you might expect for a stove with such a low emissions rating and high efficiency. See, to burn at such a low rate means the exhaust gas temperature often falls below the condensation temperature of water so the flue is exposed to a lot of wetness and dry cycles which accumulates debris. Usually black, often flakey. Over 90% of the time the stoves are run on low, statistically, according to industry research and BK. Low and slow is where it's at. That just means creosote in the firebox and especially with pine.

Oh and that lame void behind the inner steel panels is a bugger to clean. It is easier to keep the void clean than to try and recover from years of neglect.

I get a lot more creosote in my stove and chimney of the BK than a did with a modern noncat on the same hearth and using the same fuel.

Since this is a new stove to you and you checked the gaskets, please check the bypass frame and gasket. Hopefully it's nice and flat and not melted.

Thank you for the reply. You mention:

It is common to pop off chunks of 1/2" thick crusty creosote from the corners especially. It's kinda like a black lava cookie. Only with a very hot fire can the firebox somewhat self clean.

I’m worried that if I got a hot enough to burn off the creosote remaining I’d start the creosote on fire and melt the stove or at least have a out of control fire on my hands. As much creosote as I removed from the firebox there is still lots in there. My plan is to keep chipping away at it. No gasket on the bypass door, appears to seal nicely. Once the cat thermometer is in the active zone for an hour or so I can look into it and see it glowing orange and there was zero creosote build up anywhere near the cat and the bypass door so I’m assuming thats working correctly.

 

[Murray01]

do you have any pics of the chimney after you swept it out. I know you said that you couldn’t get to bare metal. Did you notice any hard shiny buildup that couldn’t be removed? Almost like a layer of black glassy looking stuff.
Sounds like you removed a bit of stage 1 and 2 creosote. Just making sure what’s left in chimney is not stage 3 creosote.

Some black and shiny material mostly dull but very hard, fingernail won’t touch it but I could scrape it off with a screwdriver. Had to Google the stages of creosote which brought me to the chemicals you sprinkle on your fire that’s supposed help with the breakup of creosote, positive reviews but I can post a positive review on topics I know nothing about.
Is the creosote chemicals worth it? If so what would be a suitable product?
Pictures are at the top of the chimney. If they don’t come through I’ll reread the section on posting pictures and try again.
Thank you for your suggestions

 

[BKVP]

Thank you for the reply. You mention:

I’m worried that if I got a hot enough to burn off the creosote remaining I’d start the creosote on fire and melt the stove or at least have a out of control fire on my hands. As much creosote as I removed from the firebox there is still lots in there. My plan is to keep chipping away at it. No gasket on the bypass door, appears to seal nicely. Once the cat thermometer is in the active zone for an hour or so I can look into it and see it glowing orange and there was zero creosote build up anywhere near the cat and the bypass door so I’m assuming thats working correctly.

You won't melt the stove. If you have a weed burner torch, you can burn it off outside.....

 

[Murray01]

OP hit it on the head! Lack of maintenance. I have owned 3 of our King models. 1102, 1107 and now KE40. All were tested and tortured in my home before they hit the market. None has had the accumulation referenced in this post.

The combustor failure was likely due to the leaking glass and door gasket. If fuel was wet or snow laden, that too could have resulted in thermal shock.

Follow operating instructions to have periodic high burns to keep creosote issues in the firebox to a minimum.

Your 1102 does not have a bypass gasket or retainers. The bypass is 1/2" steel and therefore no need to look for them.

If your flue collar measures 7", that stove was purchased in Canada. All 1102's sold in the USA were 8" diameter flue collars.

As for cleaning behind the baffles, go to your local welding supply store (our TrueValue has welding supplies) and purchase a round wire, flexible shaft brush. That and burning correctly will be of great benefit.

I've also owned other EPA (1990's) non catalytic stoves (2) and both had clean 15' chimneys....just like my 3 King stoves.

Proper operation, conditioned fuel and annual maintenance allows any modern stove to provide warmth and peace of mind.

Good job O.P.

BKVP

Thank you for your reply.
You refer to a “round wire flexible shaft brush” not sure exactly what you are referring to but I’m thinking a bottle brush only with steel bristles?
With a name like BKVP I’m assuming you are associated with Blaze King, recently purchased a door and window gasket and not knowing what I’m doing(product wise) wanted to stay with OEM. Priced out the parts at Amazon.ca $115, local Home Hardware is an authorized BK dealer, total bill was $69 plus $20 shipping. Was pleasantly surprised, will definitely be purchasing any parts through Home Hardware in the future.

 

[BKVP]

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Mine is like this and I put it into my cordless drill. Yes, I am the Vice President of the company. The 1102 is a great stove, you should really enjoy it.

BKVP

 

[Highbeam]

Don't be afraid of a fire in your firebox. It's supposed to happen that way. If the creosote bothers you I wouldn't spend much time chipping at the old firebox debris until after you've burned some long and hot fires to dry them out. It's much easier then. I try to do this before the summer break. It'll just get gunky again in the fall. You'll see.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Some black and shiny material mostly dull but very hard, fingernail won’t touch it but I could scrape it off with a screwdriver. Had to Google the stages of creosote which brought me to the chemicals you sprinkle on your fire that’s supposed help with the breakup of creosote, positive reviews but I can post a positive review on topics I know nothing about.
Is the creosote chemicals worth it? If so what would be a suitable product?
Pictures are at the top of the chimney. If they don’t come through I’ll reread the section on posting pictures and try again.
Thank you for your suggestions

View attachment 314907 View attachment 314908 View attachment 314909

That does not look like a lot of shiny hard build up to me. I’m not sure how much it extends down the chimney, but if it’s only a couple feet and it is as it appears in the picture, I think you’re probably ok. I’m not a professional though, so if a pro does chime in about these pictures, I would defer to that.