When I bought that new mast we drove down to Doug's to pick it up, of course it wasn't quite done yet, but he let my teenage boys install several of the pop rivets in it, so they had a real labor investment in the boat. Then the kids moved out to Oregon and Alaska. That's why we sold it because I don't sail and my wife only crews on several boats.
Heavy hitch hoist
- Thread starter Ashful
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GMW is not unique in the sailing world, in that it's managed very poorly, by a guy who loves sailing much more than business. I've toyed with the idea of approaching Doug with a plan to buy it from him many times over the last 15 years, but I felt that when the time was right for me, he wasn't yet ready; and now that he likely is, that ship has sailed for me. I think that if someone young doesn't buy him out in the next few years, the Thistle class may be toast, with no other boat builder supplying the class today.
My plan, at the time, was to re-introduce woodies to the fleet. Ever since the D&M factory burned, the top folks in the class have been restoring boats from the 1940's and 1950's, as the woodies simply outperform all but the very newest of glass boats, and look better while doing it.
My entire reason for getting into Thistles, over any other class of similar performance, was that rare combination of performance and mahogany. I suspect the class could see new life, rather than only surviving on legacy families, if we could make those beautiful wood hulls available to the average Joe, again. As it is today, you need to have years of time and experience, or a very substantial budget (or both), to take on the restoration of a 65 - 75 year old woodie Thistle.
What's funny about this thread is that, while created around a hoist, with no mention of Thistles in the OP... I suspect we may get SpaceBus hooked on a new racing hobby, before it's done.
SpaceBus: The adrenaline rush of being strapped into a massively-overpowered sailing vessel with no brakes in crowded waters cannot be beaten by anything with tires on asphalt. As someone who's done a bit of both, trust me!
SpaceBus: The adrenaline rush of being strapped into a massively-overpowered sailing vessel with no brakes in crowded waters cannot be beaten by anything with tires on asphalt. As someone who's done a bit of both, trust me!
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
My wife wants to get into sailing. Would you suggest a wooden boat for a beginner? Obviously I'll also be betting into sailing if she wants to.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
It’s at this point I’ll share everything I know about wooden boats I learned here.
Great channel and genuine person behind it. Fascinating….
Great channel and genuine person behind it. Fascinating….
sloeffle
Minister of Fire
Ashful: I can't help you ( wood guy here ) with your project but this is definitely a very interesting thread.
We were kaying last year and there were some folks racing small catamarans ( they would hang of the side to make turns
) on the local reservoir. We watched them get wet and race for about an half hour. It was great entertainment.
We were kaying last year and there were some folks racing small catamarans ( they would hang of the side to make turns
) on the local reservoir. We watched them get wet and race for about an half hour. It was great entertainment.Talked with a veteran Thistle sailor yesterday at our club about whether he had ever seen any hoist type kluges when he was regatta-ing back in the 60's and 70's and he pointed out that nobody had bottom boat covers back then, it just wasn't conceived yet. Slide it on the trailer, put your waist strap on and run on down the road, so no need to rig up a hoist at any hoist-less clubs. And Doug has sold his molds and stuff to a younger enthusiast, not sure if he's delivering boats yet. And we have a new guy in the club with a beautifully restored woodie, hull 1266, and he's competitive on the water.
sloeffle
Minister of Fire
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I think mahogany, but that's just from watching a few youtube videos. Teak is another popular choice.
Don't think the hulls were teak or mahogany, the rails were teak and oak and the decking were mahogany and teak. The hulls had to be formed with more flexible wood, I'm sure Ashful will chime in since he's actually scraped, sanded and refinished at least one.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Maybe spruce? Usually when things need to be light and strong that's the choice. Often used in instruments as well for the tonal qualities.
Yes, it is! I highly recommend it, for those months when it's too hot to process firewood.Ashful: I can't help you ( wood guy here ) with your project but this is definitely a very interesting thread.
We were kaying last year and there were some folks racing small catamarans ( they would hang of the side to make turns
Excellent news on someone taking over the molds. As to bottom covers, no one was glassing over their woodies back then. The 4 oz. glass everyone started putting over their woodies a few years back is what necessitates the bottom cover, as a rock thrown from a tire will shatter the glass/wood bond, and cause all sorts of localized problems. But things have gotten so competitive in the class, that it's tough to have a very smooth and fair hull without that skin of glass over the wood.
Nearly all are 5 plies of 1/16" mahogany, cold-formed using a process developed for airplane manufacture during WW2. I believe the first few boats had three plies of doug fir, with only the outer ply on each side being mahogany, but mine is all mahogany.
Most newer Thistles have Teak rails and gratings on a glass hull. Way easier to maintain than mahogany, since teak only needs oil, whereas mahogany needs sanding and varnish. The older ones, and still a few new ones (based on what the owner requests) had varnished mahogany gratings.
I believe the rails are ash outers with mahogany inners, but I'd have to re-watch Larry Liggett's rail replacement video on YouTube to confirm.
My memory isn't great, but I think only the first half dozen Thistles made had Spruce in them. I believe they switched to all mahogany pretty quickly, once they got into production. The weights, stiffness, construction are all very closely controlled, such that each boat should perform equally well, and that really dictates the exact ply construction.
When the first glass boats were developed in the 1950's, a few builders spent a ton of R&D hours on trying (and failing) to get them to match the weight and performance of the original 500 lb woodies, as everyone wanted low-maintenance glass back then. Ultimately, the compromise was to bolt an extra 15 pounds of lead onto the keel of every wood boat in the fleet, hence the weight now being that 515# that Mutineer had caught in post #1. There's a lot more to it, that I won't bore you with, but the goal is to create a one-design class, in which the only difference between boats is the ability and luck of the crew... not the boat itself.
It's interesting that new glass Thistle will run neck-and-neck with a 70-year old woodie. But while the wood boats stay fast forever, as long as you keep rot at bay, the glass boats go soft and become less competitive with age.
Ask him if it came from PA. That number sounds too familiar, in fact I think I've sailed it. Does it say "Velvet Elvis" on the transom?
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Mahogany is probably more water resistant than the spruce, but I assume individual fibers like to stand up when wet, which means lots of sanding and varnishing. Spruce is pretty bad for lifting too, but gets a pass for being easy to work with and cheap. It's a common boat wood, from googling, but the mahogany clearly performs better despite being heavier. Teak is nice because the fibers don't tend to raise, as much, when wet. We've had a teak body brush in our shower that gets used at least twice a day for the last four years with no maintenance. It gets a small crack in the winter when the house gets ultra dry, but otherwise keeps on working. I like to use spruce when building things, but I haven't milled enough lumber to be picky with what I'm using right now.
sloeffle
Minister of Fire
In the back of my brain, I was thinking maple or white oak ( a native NA species ), mahogany would of never crossed my mind to build a boat hull with. I built a ton of furniture with mahogany, it's very forgiving, and easy to work with.
Ashful- I'll check on #1266, he is from Western PA, the boat is currently bright yellow and perfectly refinished, he bought it two years ago when he got into the club. He grew up in Oregon, sailing bigger wooden boats with his dad on the Columbia.
And my old #2112 definitely had oak rails and mahogany decking. The center trunk mahogany had dry rotted to the point that it was like balsa wood down near the bottom, how it supported the mast forces was a miracle.
One of our members is currently in a very long refinish job on hull #2, and we see hull #1 at regattas all the time- Chris Klotz's boat.
And my old #2112 definitely had oak rails and mahogany decking. The center trunk mahogany had dry rotted to the point that it was like balsa wood down near the bottom, how it supported the mast forces was a miracle.
One of our members is currently in a very long refinish job on hull #2, and we see hull #1 at regattas all the time- Chris Klotz's boat.
Yep, I know who Chris is. In fact, he was crew on my boat when it won Nationals in 1986, although that's before I owned it. He went on to win as skipper himself in 1990.
Unfortunately, boat numbers are not directly recorded in the trophy list, so you have to do some digging to find that info. I remember boat #1 won Nationals in the early 2000's, but can't remember who was sailing it, at the time.
All these numbers start rattling around in your brain, I've crewed on so many Thistles that I can't remember them all. But #1266 does ring a bell, I know there was a 1200'something woodie at our lake, which I once skippered in a (fun/unofficial) race. The owner of that boat crewed once for me, when I was still pretty new to sailing, and got to see me get clocked (hard) in the head with the boom on a surprise wind reversal. One of the fun aspects of lake sailing next to a mountain, the wind can reverse as you pass the mountain.
Yeah, teak is great for rails, you never have to varnish it, and you never get splinters from it. As to oak vs. ash on the rails, maybe my memory is wrong, but I thought they were always ash/mahog/hull/ash. Here's the best photo I could find of mine, without serious digging:
Unfortunately, boat numbers are not directly recorded in the trophy list, so you have to do some digging to find that info. I remember boat #1 won Nationals in the early 2000's, but can't remember who was sailing it, at the time.
All these numbers start rattling around in your brain, I've crewed on so many Thistles that I can't remember them all. But #1266 does ring a bell, I know there was a 1200'something woodie at our lake, which I once skippered in a (fun/unofficial) race. The owner of that boat crewed once for me, when I was still pretty new to sailing, and got to see me get clocked (hard) in the head with the boom on a surprise wind reversal. One of the fun aspects of lake sailing next to a mountain, the wind can reverse as you pass the mountain.
Yeah, teak is great for rails, you never have to varnish it, and you never get splinters from it. As to oak vs. ash on the rails, maybe my memory is wrong, but I thought they were always ash/mahog/hull/ash. Here's the best photo I could find of mine, without serious digging:
