Help and advice wanted on designing a heating system.

[deerefanatic]

Hi guys. Some good friends of mine just bought a new house and are doing some major remodeling... It has a two zone baseboard heat system downstairs, and nothing upstairs... They have added on to both sides of the house and the upstairs.. I opened my mouth and proposed breaking up the two large zones downstairs and seperating the zones upstairs..... Viola! I've been hired..

PLEASE keep in mind. While my friends want to do this right, they also are trying to save money.. This renovation is running $30k over budget already... So can't get too extravagant...

Anyhow, I did a heatloss analysis on the place today by taking measurements of the rooms and windows etc.... The total for the downstairs is 53,200 btu/hr worst case for the downstairs only. Upstairs I haven't figured because it's totally torn up and I haven't seen the floor plan yet.....

These heatloss numbers are based at 73F inside temp (these folks do like to be warm) and -20 outside temp (we get a week of nights at least this cold every winter.... Sometimes even a day or two of hi's that low)

There will be 5 zones downstairs....
Living Room
Hallway and a small room/office deally...
Master Bedroom/Bath
Spare Bedroom
Kitchen/dining/laundry/porch

3 zones Upstairs:

2 bedrooms, one for each of their daughters on separate zones......
Bathroom/common room.

There is some baseboard downstairs already.

Now, I have some questions.

First, I'm going to pull almost all of the copper in the basement when I break the zones up and put in pex. Theory is less heatloss off of pex than copper, which will put off the need to insulate quite so soon. The copper will get used to plumb to the upstairs bathroom.

I planning on running a single pump with zone valves off of the gas boiler. Right now they have a 007 taco and a Weil-Mclane Cgi series at 57k btu/hr.... The two existing zone valves are the typical honeywell units. I was thinking for the rest of the zones of using Taco EBV's... Is the electric savings worth the $20+ premium? Will flow be messed up having the EBV's along beside the conventional Honeywell jobs?

Now, here are the BTU requirements for each zone:

Living Room: 8,555 Btu

Kitchen/Dining/Laundry/Porch : 23,311 (This is the largest zone, but it unfortunately is all kinda open so it might as well be all together... if anything, the Dining could be split off because its 13,735 BTU by itself)

Hallway and small room: 4842 BTU

Master Bedroom: 11,313 BTU

Spare Bedroom: 5184 BTU

There is an interior bathroom, but the loss is about 500 btu/hr and it's directly in the middle of the house, so just leave the door open..

Also, I'm wondering on you guys input on maybe utilizing some cast iron radiators in the home as they will fit in with the decor alright... Can a guy utilize cast iron rads in the same zone as bb? Seems that even though the BTU rating is a little low, they also heat radiantly so that could help things feel warmer.......

I forgot to measure how much existing baseboard is in the house... I might make a trip up there tomorrow after work and get that up here....

Thanks in advance!!

-Matt

 

[Nofossil]

It will take a very long time for EBVs to save $20 in electricity. I like them because they seem to be mechanically more robust, but that's a relatively subjective opinion.

You can mix them, but I think that the port on an EBV is a bit larger than a Honeywell zone valve. That means that if you have multiple zones open, the EBV zones will get a bit more flow. Probably not a big deal - they'll just get up to temp a bit faster.

I don't know of any reason not to mix radiators and baseboard - others here have done it.

Completely off-topic - I have a software update for the NFCS that you need to install. Makes rule editing much easier. How are the sensors going?

 

[deerefanatic]

I was hoping you'd weigh in on this one Bill... I almost called and asked you to!

I'll contact you over at the Nofo forum about the software update.....

Ok then. I'll pass on the EBV's.... Especially since there is a lot of 6 Honeywell valves on ebay for less than $10 bid right now.....


Alright, looks like I'm on the right track!

 

[jebatty]

PLEASE keep in mind. While my friends want to do this right, they also are trying to save money.. This renovation is running $30k over budget already… So can’t get too extravagant…

No bone with the desire to find economies, or with asking a qualified and experienced friend to design and install a hydronic system. After watching HGTV recently on remodeling projects going awry, it seems paradoxical to me where many people seek to achieve savings, after going way over budget on other things which appear cosmetic. Sometimes friendships can also get quite strained in endeavors like this, whether or not any compensation is involved, as expectations become unrealistic. Good luck and I wish you a very successful outcome.

 

[deerefanatic]

I think I've already blown their expectations away... But, I did forewarn them that their boiler is going to be too small....... But, with the multiple zoning, they can cut down the room temps in part of the house if they need to when it's realllllllyyyyy cold.

As for the qualified and experienced... Not very qualified, but I think I'm plenty experienced!! :D LOL!!