Help me pick the right stove!

[Fetz]

Hi, I am looking at tearing out our zero clearance and making an alcove for a free standing wood stove. I have narrowed down to two choices that will be best for maintaining clearance requirements in the alcove. The Blaze King Ashford 30.2 and the Hearthstone Shelburne. These both seem to combine radiant and convection heat, as I'd prefer not to be baked our of the living room. I have done quite a bit of research but I thought I should get some opinions from people with wood stoving experience.

My home is a single story ranch about 1800sqft. My floor plan (provided by my robot vacuum) is attached and the red x is the stove location. Our primary heat is propane. I don't think we'd plan on having the stove be the primary heat source.

I am leaning towards the BK but I have two primary concerns. The first is that we do not have strong dealer support. The nearest seller is 2 hours away. The installer I intend to use is comfortable installing any brand but is not a BK dealer.

Second, I do not want to buy firewood from anyone. Between cutting trees on my own property and scavenging free wood from local sources I feel I would be able to supply and season my own wood. I don't plan on burning anything rotten or unseasoned but it quality will vary. Are the catalysts really as finicky as everyone makes them out to be? If so, I would opt for the Hearthstone and appreciate the better viewing but I really admire the efficiency of the BK.

Also, in terms of house layout, how well might the stove heat the master bedroom? The living room has a ceiling fan and i can also run the HVAC fan any time to circulate air but I don't know if those will distribute air well enough. Doesn't really change my plans for the project but I'd like to manage expectations. If I go any larger with the stove I'd have to use NFPA 211 rules to reduce clearances. Right now both of these stoves should not require any heat shielding.

Thanks!

 

[bikedennis]

Many if not most here agree that BK is one of the best.

 

[begreen]

These are two quite different stoves. The Shelburne is a hybrid. It has about a third smaller firebox, more like the Ashford 2.0. The Manchester is closer in size to the Ashford 3. The Ashford is a pure cat stove which can burn at a lower rate for less heat, but with a longer burn time. It is more convective than the Shelburne or Manchester.

Alcoves have more stringent requirements so be sure that there is room for the stove. The Shelburne needs a minimum of 52" width. The Ashford is a bit less radiant and needs at least a 42" wide alcove.

 

[Fetz]

These are two quite different stoves. The Shelburne is a hybrid. It has about a third smaller firebox, more like the Ashford 2.0. The Manchester is closer in size to the Ashford 3. The Ashford is a pure cat stove which can burn at a lower rate for less heat, but with a longer burn time. It is more convective than the Shelburne or Manchester.

Alcoves have more stringent requirements so be sure that there is room for the stove. The Shelburne needs a minimum of 52" width. The Ashford is a bit less radiant and needs at least a 42" wide alcove.

Are you saying 42" for the Ashford 2 or 3? To my understanding of the manual the Ashford 3 states a 51" minimum alcove width.

Alcove width is my limiting factor and I am planning for a 54" alcove. I am basically trying to fit the best stove in there that I possibly can which is why these two are at the top of my list.

Were it not for the concerns I mentioned above I'd be settled on the BK but I have some reservations about the catalyst and lack of dealer support.

 

[kborndale]

If your sourcing your own wood and don't yet have it split and stacked you are running out of time. Hardwood will not be ready to burn for next season, if you were to get a few cords of softwood split and stacked tomorrow it could be ready for next winter but that's even cutting it close. And buying wood is no different. Wood you buy will still need a year to dry. And to answer your other question about the wood, yes BKs require fully dried wood but so do non cat stoves. If you try to run any modern stoves with wood that is over 20% MC you will be quite disappointed with the results.

 

[Fetz]

If your sourcing your own wood and don't yet have it split and stacked you are running out of time. Hardwood will not be ready to burn for next season, if you were to get a few cords of softwood split and stacked tomorrow it could be ready for next winter but that's even cutting it close. And buying wood is no different. Wood you buy will still need a year to dry. And to answer your other question about the wood, yes BKs require fully dried wood but so do non cat stoves. If you try to run any modern stoves with wood that is over 20% MC you will be quite disappointed with the results.

Yeah I am working through some trees and have half a cord of Osage, maple, and a dead fallen white oak cut and stacked so far but I don't expect to be able to burn a lot this coming winter. All we have here are hardwoods.

Are you saying you think a secondary air system and cat are equal in regards to wood quality needs?

 

[Whitenuckler]

Where are your cold air returns and where is the furnace located? That could really help circulate the air.

 

[kborndale]

Yeah I am working through some trees and have half a cord of Osage, maple, and a dead fallen white oak cut and stacked so far but I don't expect to be able to burn a lot this coming winter. All we have here are hardwoods.

Are you saying you think a secondary air system and cat are equal in regards to wood quality needs?

A cat stoves may be slightly more sensitive to wet wood, but a modern non cat stoves will not produce much heat or draft with wet wood. The only thing that a modern stoves produces well with subpar wood is creosote.

Oak and Osage can take up to 3 years to get below 20% and the clock doesn't start until it is split. Some maple like silver can dry in a year.

 

[Fetz]

Where are your cold air returns and where is the furnace located? That could really help circulate the air.

Furnace is in the garage. There is a cold air return on the opposite wall of the living room, about 25ft away, and another in the kitchen about 15ft from the stove location. One in each bedroom as well.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Furnace is in the garage. There is a cold air return on the opposite wall of the living room, about 25ft away, and another in the kitchen about 15ft from the stove location. One in each bedroom as well.

I'm not sure where the garage is, next to the kitchen? If the Kitchen and Living room are open concept that will help. If you heat with wood you could always add some electric heaters to top up the heat in certain area's. Then have the furnace set to come on when the fire dies out. You could get some good air movement which is good so you don't get the LR too hot.

 

[Fetz]

I'm not sure where the garage is, next to the kitchen? If the Kitchen and Living room are open concept that will help. If you heat with wood you could always add some electric heaters to top up the heat in certain area's. Then have the furnace set to come on when the fire dies out. You could get some good air movement which is good so you don't get the LR too hot.

Yes, next to the kitchen.

 

[begreen]

If your sourcing your own wood and don't yet have it split and stacked you are running out of time. Hardwood will not be ready to burn for next season, if you were to get a few cords of softwood split and stacked tomorrow it could be ready for next winter but that's even cutting it close. And buying wood is no different. Wood you buy will still need a year to dry. And to answer your other question about the wood, yes BKs require fully dried wood but so do non cat stoves. If you try to run any modern stoves with wood that is over 20% MC you will be quite disappointed with the results.

True, BK stoves will work fine on a variety of wood. The most important factor is that the wood is seasoned. Moisture content in the 14-20% range is ideal. Out west most burn softwood, back east it's more hardwood.

Roughly how tall is the chimney on the current fireplace? Many modern stoves require 16' of flue to draft well. The exceptions are several Canadian made stoves which breathe a bit easier and can work well on a shorter flue.

Are you saying 42" for the Ashford 2 or 3? To my understanding of the manual the Ashford 3 states a 51" minimum alcove width.

Sorry, brain fart error, you are correct, it's 52".

RE: heating. The bedrooms are going to get the short end of the stick. Heat doesn't convect well via hallways and normal room doors. The Master BR could be served by the common wall having a fan in the wall using the stud cavity as a duct with the intake high on the LR side and the output low on the MBr side. This could be thermostatically controlled. In many cases the most effective results are when colder Br air is blown toward the stove room, letting convection pull in warm air from the stove room through the hallway and door.

FWIW, using the hvac blower can have mixed results. Most ducting systems are quite lossy due to leakage and uninsulated sections. The heat loss has been considered acceptable when the temp coming off of the furnace is 145º and a duct loss of 20º is not uncommon. But in the case of moving hot air from the wood stove, the air temp may just be 80º and a 20º loss through an long, poorly insulated return kills any benefit. If all the ductwork (supplies and returns) are sealed and well-insulated, and in the conditioned home space, then using the furnace blower may help.

 

[Fetz]

Roughly how tall is the chimney on the current fireplace?

The chimney chase is 19ft floor to ceiling including the flue extension above the chase, so it should have about 16ft of flue.

The entire flue and chase cover will be replaced by the installer as part of the remodel so I suppose we could make it longer, but I'm hoping we can make the flue straight with no bends which the manual states will only require 15ft, as we are below 1kft elevation. I also am considering an outside air kit. Our house is not super tightly sealed but it just seems like there are no down-sides to adding one after looking deep into the forums here.

Begreen what are your thoughts on the dealer support? The chimney sweep/installer I am using is local and I imagine won't have any issues doing basic service on the BK. Is there anything I should need dealer support for besides a major repair? That would put aside my only remaining concern about the BK since the consensus is that anything will burn well as long as it's properly seasoned.

 

[begreen]

19' is perfect. No need for taller. The lack of local service could be an issue for any stove, if there are warranty or service issues. The more complex the stove is, the more this may be an important factor, especially if the stove is used a lot for 24/7 heating. BK stoves are well made and parts support is good. Their design is one of the best for cat stoves. Catalysts last typically about 10-12,000 hours. That's about ~3 yrs for 24/7 burners. Factory support for BK stoves is good, so is their forum support here. The BK community is strong and supportive.

Will the stove be self-maintained or by a local sweep? If by the sweep, how many BK stoves do they currently service? I ask, because a poor or less knowledgeable sweep can unintentionally degrade any modern stove's performance by some basic errors. Often the homeowner is none the wiser until they notice that the stove is not performing as well. For this reason a lot of us service our own stoves.

 

[Highbeam]

I’ve had my BK for about 13 years and burned over 50 cords. Never been back to the dealer after buying it. Heck, I don’t even think that dealer exists anymore. In the modern world you can just call them up and order parts like gaskets or catalysts. There are very few moving parts on a BK.

I don’t consider a local dealer to be important at all.

 

[Fetz]

Will the stove be self-maintained or by a local sweep?

I plan to self service everything that I can figure out on my own, including sweeping hopefully.

 

[begreen]

I plan to self service everything that I can figure out on my own, including sweeping hopefully.

Then I think you'll be fine. There is a wealth of good information here and almost every aspect of the BK design and service has been covered over the past 2 decades+. Ask questions. Highbeam and others have documented some of the more technical details of servicing.