I have been looking at all the different threads for power interruptions and running your pellet stove. In my location we get power blips "less than 1-5 minute power outage" probably once every couple months. We typically will lose power in summer for extended periods but do not need heat. Over winter it is rare to lose power but it did happen last year for a 4hr period. Long enough that the house got down to 58 degrees. Ive been researching solutions and have read everything from buy generators to buy battery backups and things in between. Well I do own a 6500watt portable generator. it is new and supposedly provides clean-ish power but is not a true sinewave inverter generator. From what I read is it will likely power my pellet stove fine and not damage it for the very rare occasional winter power outage BUT it is less than desirable. So I started thinking is there a way I can buy a UPS (not the ultra expensive dual type UPS) but rather the 100-200$ single phase or whatever it is called type. From what I read the 900watt option from cyber power would run my stove for 30-60min. Enough time to get the generator out. First question, can I hook the generator to the UPS and then the UPS to the stove thus supplying clean sine wave energy? Second question, I have heard of people using deep cycle marine type batteries but I do not understand how to go about doing this as well. I am on a strict budget and spending 500 or more on a new inverter generator is not currently in the works. The UPS will help prevent damage for those short blip type power interuptions but I am also trying to find a longer solution to run the stove for a day if needed. We NEVER have outages longer than that unless the world came to an end. Thanks for any help in understanding this.
Help me understand using a battery backup with deep cycle batteries
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The newer model Harman stoves are designed to sense a modified sine wave and start the shutdown of the stove.You're better off with a pure sine wave UPS (500VA or greater) and then plug it into the generator to keep the stove going in a long term power outage. The UPS will also filter and smooth the generator supply. A deep cycle battery is not necessary in your case.
Get a CyberPower Pure Sine Wave UPS, model CP1500PFCLCD ($200), it will run your stove for 20 to 30 minutes. If you replace the internal 12V battery with a 12V car battery, it will run a stove 2 to 4 hours with the car battery.
This is the model I use: http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-750VA-LCD-120V-with-SmartConnect/P-SMT750C
Shop around for the best price. At Amazon it's currently $287.
Shop around for the best price. At Amazon it's currently $287.
I use AIMS 1250 and two 100AH Deep Cycle Batteries for my Harmon XXV. About 12 hours run time on Medium Fan speed and Manual (Does not go out and relight). Longest period without power was 12 hours. I only had one 100ah battery and had to rob peter (Generator Batter) and finally shut it off.
I have yet to use our Generator (7.0k) Briggs and Stratton Model 40248. I wonder if it truly would allow charging the battery thru the Inverter using generator. I would think it's still not clean power (PSW). Generator gets tested. I went from small battery located in generator to having Deep Cell 60ah I keep in garage. Small one would not start it at -10f. Too Cold.
In the Future I plan on small inverter Generator and couple more batteries to replace the Lead Acid ones at 5 years.
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I have yet to use our Generator (7.0k) Briggs and Stratton Model 40248. I wonder if it truly would allow charging the battery thru the Inverter using generator. I would think it's still not clean power (PSW). Generator gets tested. I went from small battery located in generator to having Deep Cell 60ah I keep in garage. Small one would not start it at -10f. Too Cold.
In the Future I plan on small inverter Generator and couple more batteries to replace the Lead Acid ones at 5 years.
You can pick up used true sine wave UPS units on Fleabay with dead batteries for not a lot of money. APC brand units are pretty reliable. They used AGM batteries that last 3 to 5 years in typical use and readily available on line. AGMS are housebroken, they do not leak or vent gas but their life is limited. Flooded lead acid deep cycle batteries are not housebroken, they can last longer but they can leak acid and vent hydrogen plus occasional acid mist. Automotive starting batteries are also not housebroken, they are optimized for 4 to 6 years of use but when used in service like a UPS, their life may be limited. Batteries used in standby service can build up sulfur on the plates and once its attached the battery loses capacity. There are battery maintainers made to prevent this but a typical UPS just uses AGM batteries that do not have that sulfating issue.
I just went through the same dilemma. I moved and left my Pacific energy wood stove behind, new house came with a Quadrature CB1200 so I wanted to be resistant to power outages. After reading lots of threads I bought a cyberpower 1500 from Amazon. I tested it last night and after 30 min on the UPS the display claimed 37 min remaining. This will take care of the 1 to 5 minute blips we normally have here. For longer outages I bought a Yamaha 2000 inverter generator. I have a larger champion generator as well but when I tested it I found the frequency ran up to 62Hz at low loads. Also didn't want the listen to it all night running the stove!
I am very cheap, went on Craigslist and found a old APC Smart UPS for 25 bucks. Not a small one but one of the bigger ones that you can add a second battery to. Batteries were dead so just wired in two 100 amp deep cycle batteries. Stuck them in a tote with a hose connected to the outside for when they were charging. I can get about 10-12 hours of run time on my St Croix Auburn stove. Used it twice last year and it was worth the effort and the money.
Sportsman GEN 1000i inverter generator on sale at TEC for $170 + your favorite UPS is a good way to go. The UPS will keep your stove going while you fire up the generator. PLEASE NOTE: UPS will not start the stove. You will need a generator for that.
Just do manual start to save your UPS battery. I keep bottle of the gel for that just in case. Run it in Manual so it does not cycle
FWIW to someone, I have a cheap little APC 350 UPS. It doesn't like the power from my non-inverter generator, so it just says NOPE! and switches to it's battery, so it eventually goes dead, shutting off what's attached to it, even when supplied with generator power. However, it likes the power from my inverter generator, so it butts out and charges when supplied by it.
I don't know if the power from the non-inverter generator is just terrible, it seems to run things fine, or it's a matter of the inverter being a bargain-basement model (Hey, it was on the clearance pile at WM, so I HAD to buy it!), but this might be an issue with some UPS's if you're counting on something not to shut down.
Luckily, we rarely lose power here, but did last night for about 30 minutes. I have my Harman on a Cyberpower pure sine wave UPS and the stove didn't even hiccup for that 30 minutes. I was actually considering firing up the generator right when the power came back on.
Actually, I had read posts about the Harmans going into shutdown when on battery backup and was very happy to see mine ran perfectly fine on the Cyberpower UPS for that 30 minutes so it must output a nice sine wave. I had used a Killowatt meter a while back and estimated I should get a minimum of 45 minutes on the UPS which is plenty of time for me to get the generator on if needed.
My Generator is just an open frame 5500 watt with a 6 circuit manual transfer switch and I haven't tested it with the Harman, so I hope it will be okay. I think it should be because I'm pretty sure the Cyberpower UPS that the power would run through first helps clean the power up a bit, but I'm not sure about that.
Actually, I had read posts about the Harmans going into shutdown when on battery backup and was very happy to see mine ran perfectly fine on the Cyberpower UPS for that 30 minutes so it must output a nice sine wave. I had used a Killowatt meter a while back and estimated I should get a minimum of 45 minutes on the UPS which is plenty of time for me to get the generator on if needed.
My Generator is just an open frame 5500 watt with a 6 circuit manual transfer switch and I haven't tested it with the Harman, so I hope it will be okay. I think it should be because I'm pretty sure the Cyberpower UPS that the power would run through first helps clean the power up a bit, but I'm not sure about that.
I doubt UPS will clean up the Power From Generator. Hey give it a try and see what happens. What's the worst it can do? Fry the Motherboard? I would not try it personally. Needs to convert AC power to DC and Back to AC for this to be clean. To see what will happen you need scope. (broken link removed to https://blog.tripplite.com/which-type-of-ups-system-works-best-with-a-generator)
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure my UPS does add surge suppression which does help some and is a big cause for electronic problems. Actually, I see my UPS also has built in AVR which it says "uses Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) to correct minor power fluctuations without switching to battery power" I am aware of the online UPS types that always convert the AC into DC and output through the inverter, but those aren't cheap.
There are also things like this which help:
Amazon product ASIN B00006B83G
I did have to use my old Englander stove a couple times over the years with the generator on the same setup with the same Cyberpower UPS and it all worked perfectly fine. Actually, all my electronics including TV and internet worked fine. Twice per year when I service the generator I do check and adjust the frequency to 60 HZ if needed which doesn't hurt either.
Before you use it on Pellet Stove hook up to Light Bulb. If it flickers cross your fingers. I went UPS (Aims 1250) with two 100ah Batteries. I have 7k Generator, but won't let it power UPS. If I have to charge one battery while other one powers it. Have yet to go past 10 hours power outage. If you do run for long time turn igniter to manual so it does not go out and relight. I turned down my fan to Medium Speed too. When we lost power I only had one 100ah Battery. Now two of them. I used generator battery to get me thru. Worst case it would still start generator or use one out of car. Bad advice can cost you $$$.
That's a great setup you have. For me, power loss, at least historically at my house has been really infrequent Even then, not for that long so I didn't want to go to too much expense besides the genny I already have set up.
I do also have what I call a portable power station that I put together a few years ago for our camper if we went to places without hookups. That setup is a 1500 watt pure sine inverter with a 100ah deep cycle battery in a 1/2 size milk crate. I suppose I could get several hours out of that on the Harman if needed and that would be after the 45 minutes on the UPS.
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