Help on putting wood stove into fireplace

[fiorentina]

Planning on putting a wood stove into an existing masonry fireplace. Started by thinking about an insert and later a hearth stove but after reading posts from this forum I am now thinking maybe I can squeeze in a top-vented stove. That way choices are more and it will be easier on budget.

First about the house. The fireplace is in a big living room that is 25x20 with cathedral ceiling (no second floor, 3 exterior walls). The area adjacent to it (through a door) is 30x14. The two parts account for one zone of the oil baseboard heating system. And I hope the stove can take care of them (1020 ft^2, roughly 10660 ft^3, ~43000BTU according to the calculator). If the stove can help with the other part of the first floor (700 ft^2, further from the fireplace) or the second floor that will be great but I am not counting on it (not open floor plan, many walls that may discourage circulation). The lower half of the chimney is inside and the upper half (from the top of the living room roof to the top of the main unit roof) is exposed.

Now about whether I can squeeze a stove into the fire place. It has a quite big opening (48"x30" in front, 28"x30" in back). But the minimum depth is 16" and the heartch extends 18" from the front of the opening. I try to visualize using the listed dimensions of Englander 13-NC and 30-NC, which I'm leaning to buy (see pics). I found that while 13-NC can be completely inside, 30-NC sticks out about 10", thus leaving only 8" from the border of the hearth. I am keeping an 1.5" clearance at the back (the back is slanted and 1.5" is the minimal clearance, it's 5" at the bottom"). My questions are: 1. Is 8" to hearth border (30-NC case) too short to be safe? If so, what is the minimum (nothing in the vicinity of the stove, could floor be affected?) 2. Is the 1.5" clearance on the back ok? 3. My understanding is that the position of the vent (in the depth direction) is not a big issue as flexible liner will be used to link the vent to the flue (passing the damper). If that's the case, I guess I can move 13-NC out of the fireplace a bit so that I can have more radiant heat? 4. The capacity of the stove, will 13-NC be powerful enough? I am a bit concerned that 30-NC may overheat this part of the house if I can't get a good circulation.

I am a newbie to wood heating (was in bay area) so I will really appreciate your help. This forum has been a great source of information.

 

[edthedawg]

Welcome, neighbor (assuming I have the right "quiet corner" in mind...)

8" out front sounds way short, so you'd wind up needing to build Something out there - 18" off the front of the stove door is a good standard, but you want to look up the specifics of the stove you select. They all tend to vary somewhat for the ground-cover size and R-value requirements, as well as specified clearances to combustible wall/trim surfaces. Your mantel shelf there could be a problem, too. I'd guess that's only about 50" up off the hearth surface there?

1.5" out the back isn't likely an issue but you need to know what else might be on the other side of the stone/brick to be sure. If there's framing on the other side, you just consider the total thickness, distances, air-gaps, etc. But in general the requirements are spelled out in front of, around, and underneath / above the stove itself. Again - primary concern tends to be the immediate clearance to combustibles.

Flex liner will cure a lot of ills lining-up-wise, but you may need to consider where you would install an inline damper above the stove. If there's only a couple inches of space between the top of the stove and the top of the firebox, you'll have no place to put in a usable damper. If your resultant chimney height is well within the specs of the stove you purchase, and you are using a new EPA-listed stove, you shouldn't likely need the damper. Our chimney height exceeds the mfg'r recommendation for flue length, so the damper is critical to slowing down our burn.

We have flex liner, a taller firebox, and still wound up exhausting our Hearthstone Heritage out the back into a tee, which then goes up into the flex-liner.

I'm not equipped to tell you the differences of the 13-NC vs the 30-NC specifically, but you need to factor in other things beyond your square footage and air circulation paths alone. Is this an older house? What are the insulation & windows/doors like? I'd venture you can move some air around, despite the "closed" floorplan, provided you don't mind running a couple box or ceiling fans and keeping the doors open.

Good luck, be safe, and enjoy the forum and again - presuming you're in the Ashford / Willington / Stafford vicinity, Mainline Heating on Rt 89 @ exit 72 off I-84 is a great local stove shop, if you haven't found them yet.

 

[begreen]

Welcome, fiorentina. One of our moderators has the 30 NC set up the way you propose. It is working well for him. If possible, I'd go for the larger stove. The blower will help with circulation, and a properly placed fan, on the floor blowing cool air from the adjacent room, towards the stove, should establish good circulation. If not, open up the wall a bit.

Ed is correct, the stove requires 18" in front of the door for a hearth. That can be some tiles set in or on the floor. It doesn't have to be at the same height as the existing hearth. You'll also want to have a block-off plate installed, preferably at lintel height so that you recoup the maximum amount of heat from the stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

I am afraid that if that 30" dimension is the lintel height that a 30-NC just ain't gonna cut it in this application. Mine has the shorter optional six inch legs and it is 29 inches high at the top of the flue collar which is also the height of the top of the heat shield which distributes convection air over the top of the stove. The standard nine inch legs would make it impossible to get the sucker into that fireplace. Even with the six inch legs the outlet from the heat shield would be aimed at the back of the lintel in the fireplace impeding the movement of the hot air out into the room.

I feel that a 32" to 33" lintel height is the minimum for installing this pup in a fireplace and that is with six inch legs.

 

[fiorentina]

Thank you all for the replies. So something needs to be done in front... I'm aware of the mantel but not the in-line damper and will check the specs. I have a ceiling fan in that room which should help the vincinity. Just not sure how hard to direct hot air into the other side of the house, or the second floor, which is quite far from the fireplace.

Ed- I haven't checked out Mainline heating but plan to do so. The part that really gives me headache is the relining. I got a quote that runs $2300 (including stove installation). I'm getting more quotes but do you by any chance have some chimney services to recommend? You may PM me if you like. Thanks a lot...

 

[edthedawg]

How much chimney do you have on the back end of this setup? That is one of the biggest concerns, along with the rest of the house details. All those things (conveniently termed a "system of systems" in another post here the other day) work together to dictate how your exclusive setup needs to look and run.

$2300 for a whole new lining and "turn-key" stove install, from soup to nuts, actually don't sound too bad (assuming you wind up with all the bells and whistles).

Mainline Heating has a good website ((broken link removed)) and Scott Bradley (owner) is obsessive about doing things right, and having happy customers. he used to be a commercial electrician and did a lot of work on our house before going solely into the wood-fired appliance business.

I can PM you my installer info, too...

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Even with the six inch legs the outlet from the heat shield would be aimed at the back of the lintel in the fireplace impeding the movement of the hot air out into the room.

I feel that a 32" to 33" lintel height is the minimum for installing this pup in a fireplace and that is with six inch legs.

I don't know if I shared this with you Bart?

Here is what I did to bring the heat out!!

Butts right up to the rear heat shied. Made from left over 16 gauge steel from fabricating the block of plate.

Its like its turbo charged..........and boy does it work Great!!

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't know if I shared this with you Bart?

Here is what I did to bring the heat out!!

Butts right up to the rear heat shied. Made from left over 16 gauge steel from fabricating the block of plate.

Its like its turbo charged..........and boy does it work Great!!

I have something similar. Sheet metal running up from the heat shield to the underside of the lintel. It also captures the heat coming up out of the top of the side heat shields I put on the stove and the blower carries that out into the room too. Really helps for convection heating without the blower on too.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Oh.... you put the side heat shields on?

How much did that help with stripping the heat from the sides?

 

[BrotherBart]

Oh.... you put the side heat shields on?

How much did that help with stripping the heat from the sides?

A bunch. When the stove is rolling you can hold a butane lighter over the top opening of the heat shield and it will blow out the flame.

 

[Shari]

I don't know if I shared this with you Bart?

Here is what I did to bring the heat out!!

Butts right up to the rear heat shied. Made from left over 16 gauge steel from fabricating the block of plate.

Its like its turbo charged..........and boy does it work Great!!

Hiram,

How are these connected to the stove or are they just sitting in place?

Shari

 

[Shari]

I have something similar. Sheet metal running up from the heat shield to the underside of the lintel. It also captures the heat coming up out of the top of the side heat shields I put on the stove and the blower carries that out into the room too. Really helps for convection heating without the blower on too.

Care to share pictures or your install?

Shari

 

[BrotherBart]

Care to share pictures or your install?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

I don't know if I shared this with you Bart?

Here is what I did to bring the heat out!!

Butts right up to the rear heat shied. Made from left over 16 gauge steel from fabricating the block of plate.

Its like its turbo charged..........and boy does it work Great!!

Hiram,

How are these connected to the stove or are they just sitting in place?

Shari

Shari,

They are just sitting on top (just sitting in place)

 

[Shari]

Hiram & BB,

Do either of you use a blower on your units?

Shari

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Hiram & BB,

Do either of you use a blower on your units?

Shari

Shari, :lol:

That's the whole reason for the extensions in my pictures above!

They take the hot air from the blower, squeezes & pushes it out of the fireplace opening.

It blows out a butane lighter at 6 feet from the front of the stove. (turbo)

So the air is stripped from the back of the stove and then from the top of the stove.

 

[Shari]

Ah, Hiram, that sounds so nice and cozy (as I sit here watching the snow fall outside)!

Shari

 

[pgmr]

Why not just use an insert? It already comes with the air channels to get the hot air out of the fireplace.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Why not just use an insert? It already comes with the air channels to get the hot air out of the fireplace.

Does anyone make an insert that has a 3.5 cu. ft firebox priced around $1K that would heat a 2200 sq ft house?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Ah, Hiram, that sounds so nice and cozy (as I sit here watching the snow fall outside)!

Shari

Its snowing here as well and its a nice cozy 72° inside and a frigid 22° outside!

Cheers, Hiram