Help on selecting approved stove and or insert to upgrade fireplace

[AlexandreG]

Hi! I have scroll and read through the forum day and night since a few days to try to find a solution to my situation, and can't figure it out by myself.

I own an old farm house (about 1300sqf) in which a masonry fireplace is, with an homemade type of insert/ doors and air duck going through. warm the house incredibly well, can burn anything in there, which suits me perfectly with my woodland where we mostly have softwood.

Last year I built a 1500sqf house extension in logs , surrounding the masonry chimney. I faced quite a lot of difficulties in the building process and got to finish the project during winter time without having the gaps between the logs sealed before the cold (-40), so to prevent freezing the whole house i placed a drolet ht-3000 in there to help the main fireplace to keep the house warm. The ht-3000 did it's job, but overstretching is limits. the house is done, and we live in it now, wood is drying and shrinking and we have here and there new air leaks coming in that i fix as we find them, making the house not always super efficient in term of keeping the warmth and the drolet not being able to keep us warm alone.

Drolet ht-3000 is not able to heat the whole house under freezing temp, barely it's side of the new house ( i run it with 2years old beech tree that i get delivered in truck length), but it does help the fireplace in cold snaps. Most of time, I can run the fireplace and heat up the entire house, good wood, bad wood, rapidly, and it stay warm for 24h+ because of the masonry acting as a huge heat battery. I love playing with my axe to split firewood, but i enjoy greatly throwing unsplit massive 24inches logs to start a fire easily.

Got a herd of cows. Insurance company didn't like it and canceled me out. The new insurance company want the fireplace to be sealed or upgraded to a certified installation. Lucky enough, it is warm now and for the next week, but at any time the temp can drop very low for extended periods that the HT-3000 wont be able to keep the house at a reasonable temp, so i try to make a quick move on my choice, but i want to make a more careful choice then the one i did with the ht-3000.

I now need to find something big and powerful enough to heat the whole house that could fit in the masonery fireplace, hopefully that could allow me to use my resources and not 100% rely on resources coming from outside my land , I'm ok to buy wood, but i want the safety of being able to use what i have on hands at all time.

The dimension (in inches) of the fireplace's heart are :
Height at the opening 30 1/2 ( could ''dig'' it to 40)
height at the back 16
36 width at the opening, 31 1/2 at the back of the damper, 25 at the back of the firebox
the depth is 32 from the face of the fireplace to the back
17 from the face of the fireplace to the back of the damper

the chimney is 25ft tall 13 x 13, so likely most liner will fit in there.

I am unsure if i should get an insert, which makes me relying on electricity that often fails here to get a blower moving the air around it, but easy to fit in.
I have been told by a seller that a free standing stove right at the opening of the fireplace would be my best option, pushing me toward a vc defiant to run without the cat inside to burn my shoulder wood, which seems counter-intuitive to use a stove in a manner different then the way it was design for.

I have been through the many major brand, looking at specs, trying to figure out what would be the best option and I cant pin point what would work best, I see so many negatives reviews i get confused in the direction to take. Would the fire place size been bigger, i could have opt for a bk king that seems to makes owners proud of it.

I also start to consider removing the ht-3000 to install a more powerful stove that could warm the full house and place a lesser powerful one in the masonry fireplace, since its the center piece around which i built the entire house, i want it to keep working.

In the end, what I'm looking for, in order of priorities is something :
safe insurance wise (and for me and my family),
tons of heat output,
least wearable parts possible (reliability)
and optimally versatility in term of ability to burn wood that isn't always perfectly dried up.

I'm open to changes my ways, but want to make sure a change will give great results.

I'm sorry for the super long text, and for my less then perfect English writing skills

thanks to anyone who can share their point of view on the matter

thanks to everyone i have been reading post and opinions on this forum for the last few days, I greatly appreciate this community

 

[EbS-P]

Biggest insert you can fit would be the best full time heater. Blowers don’t draw much so you could run a small generator. Second option would be to stick a stove in the fireplace. Depending on hearth size you could rear or top vent a jotul F55 with short legs. You may want a damper.

I have both an insert and hearth stove. The insert is better for every day operation the stove sits back and really needs a blower to heat well when pushed hard.

You are wanting to heat 2800 sq ft (not very well sealed right now). That’s going to push two modern stoves hard when it’s cold and windy.

Here is SBIs biggest insert. It’s available in their Osborn line too. That’s what I would install.

Blue Ridge 500-I | Wood Stove EPA

Blue Ridge 500-I High-Efficiency Wood Insert - EPA Certified - Heats up to 2,700 sq. ft. - 22" Logs - Up to 10 hour burn time - Proudly made in USA.

www.englander-stoves.com

 

[AlexandreG]

Biggest insert you can fit would be the best full time heater. Blowers don’t draw much so you could run a small generator. Second option would be to stick a stove in the fireplace. Depending on hearth size you could rear or top vent a jotul F55 with short legs. You may want a damper.

I have both an insert and hearth stove. The insert is better for every day operation the stove sits back and really needs a blower to heat well when pushed hard.

You are wanting to heat 2800 sq ft (not very well sealed right now). That’s going to push two modern stoves hard when it’s cold and windy.

Here is SBIs biggest insert. It’s available in their Osborn line too. That’s what I would install.

Blue Ridge 500-I | Wood Stove EPA

Blue Ridge 500-I High-Efficiency Wood Insert - EPA Certified - Heats up to 2,700 sq. ft. - 22" Logs - Up to 10 hour burn time - Proudly made in USA.

www.englander-stoves.com

Thanks for your opinion!

I see that you have inserted your Jotul completely inside the fireplace, is there a specific spacing needed to be allowed to do this? Or the stove itself as allowance for it?

Jotul is one of the stove i would love to have, they are beautiful and seems to give good heat output. What do you think of the combustor "issues"? I have a neighbor who runs his jotul with great results on the same wood then what i own, could it be an older version non epa certified?

Otherwise I love the idea of shoving the biggest insert in there, in the end they are built concept for this exact purpose. I didn't knew about the Osburn 3500 being made by SBI, i love the size its firebox and the fact it is non cat, but is it just me or it looks a lot like the ht-3000 even in specs, but being more than double the price?


Thanks again, extremely appreciated that you gave me your opinion.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks for your opinion!

I see that you have inserted your Jotul completely inside the fireplace, is there a specific spacing needed to be allowed to do this? Or the stove itself as allowance for it?

Jotul is one of the stove i would love to have, they are beautiful and seems to give good heat output. What do you think of the combustor "issues"? I have a neighbor who runs his jotul with great results on the same wood then what i own, could it be an older version non epa certified?

Otherwise I love the idea of shoving the biggest insert in there, in the end they are built concept for this exact purpose. I didn't knew about the Osburn 3500 being made by SBI, i love the size its firebox and the fact it is non cat, but is it just me or it looks a lot like the ht-3000 even in specs, but being more than double the price?


Thanks again, extremely appreciated that you gave me your opinion.

You don’t want the F500 too small too many issues.
I like my Drolet.

If he stove fits and you can hook it up and it’s approved for hearth installs and you meet you front ember protection with or without R value (you will be real familiar with the manuals of the stoves you are looking at). You can put the stove in. But running both the insert does a better job I have to run a fan behind the jotul.

 

[AlexandreG]

You don’t want the F500 too small too many issues.
I like my Drolet.

If he stove fits and you can hook it up and it’s approved for hearth installs and you meet you front ember protection with or without R value (you will be real familiar with the manuals of the stoves you are looking at). You can put the stove in. But running both the insert does a better job I have to run a fan behind the jotul.

Do you have the drolet escape insert?

If yes how big of a space does it heats up in your case? How good/fast do you build up heat? I do appreciate the price of the drolet escape, I'm just a bit worried by the small firebox ability do give enough heat for my situation, even if it is 1/3 of the price, if it does not accomplish the mission, it is wasted money. It could possibly be an idea to install that insert at a fraction of the price if i can replace the ht-3000 for something more powerful that could be the main source of heat in the house

 

[bholler]

Hi! I have scroll and read through the forum day and night since a few days to try to find a solution to my situation, and can't figure it out by myself.

I own an old farm house (about 1300sqf) in which a masonry fireplace is, with an homemade type of insert/ doors and air duck going through. warm the house incredibly well, can burn anything in there, which suits me perfectly with my woodland where we mostly have softwood.

Last year I built a 1500sqf house extension in logs , surrounding the masonry chimney. I faced quite a lot of difficulties in the building process and got to finish the project during winter time without having the gaps between the logs sealed before the cold (-40), so to prevent freezing the whole house i placed a drolet ht-3000 in there to help the main fireplace to keep the house warm. The ht-3000 did it's job, but overstretching is limits. the house is done, and we live in it now, wood is drying and shrinking and we have here and there new air leaks coming in that i fix as we find them, making the house not always super efficient in term of keeping the warmth and the drolet not being able to keep us warm alone.

Drolet ht-3000 is not able to heat the whole house under freezing temp, barely it's side of the new house ( i run it with 2years old beech tree that i get delivered in truck length), but it does help the fireplace in cold snaps. Most of time, I can run the fireplace and heat up the entire house, good wood, bad wood, rapidly, and it stay warm for 24h+ because of the masonry acting as a huge heat battery. I love playing with my axe to split firewood, but i enjoy greatly throwing unsplit massive 24inches logs to start a fire easily.

Got a herd of cows. Insurance company didn't like it and canceled me out. The new insurance company want the fireplace to be sealed or upgraded to a certified installation. Lucky enough, it is warm now and for the next week, but at any time the temp can drop very low for extended periods that the HT-3000 wont be able to keep the house at a reasonable temp, so i try to make a quick move on my choice, but i want to make a more careful choice then the one i did with the ht-3000.

I now need to find something big and powerful enough to heat the whole house that could fit in the masonery fireplace, hopefully that could allow me to use my resources and not 100% rely on resources coming from outside my land , I'm ok to buy wood, but i want the safety of being able to use what i have on hands at all time.

The dimension (in inches) of the fireplace's heart are :
Height at the opening 30 1/2 ( could ''dig'' it to 40)
height at the back 16
36 width at the opening, 31 1/2 at the back of the damper, 25 at the back of the firebox
the depth is 32 from the face of the fireplace to the back
17 from the face of the fireplace to the back of the damper

the chimney is 25ft tall 13 x 13, so likely most liner will fit in there.

I am unsure if i should get an insert, which makes me relying on electricity that often fails here to get a blower moving the air around it, but easy to fit in.
I have been told by a seller that a free standing stove right at the opening of the fireplace would be my best option, pushing me toward a vc defiant to run without the cat inside to burn my shoulder wood, which seems counter-intuitive to use a stove in a manner different then the way it was design for.

I have been through the many major brand, looking at specs, trying to figure out what would be the best option and I cant pin point what would work best, I see so many negatives reviews i get confused in the direction to take. Would the fire place size been bigger, i could have opt for a bk king that seems to makes owners proud of it.

I also start to consider removing the ht-3000 to install a more powerful stove that could warm the full house and place a lesser powerful one in the masonry fireplace, since its the center piece around which i built the entire house, i want it to keep working.

In the end, what I'm looking for, in order of priorities is something :
safe insurance wise (and for me and my family),
tons of heat output,
least wearable parts possible (reliability)
and optimally versatility in term of ability to burn wood that isn't always perfectly dried up.

I'm open to changes my ways, but want to make sure a change will give great results.

I'm sorry for the super long text, and for my less then perfect English writing skills

thanks to anyone who can share their point of view on the matter

thanks to everyone i have been reading post and opinions on this forum for the last few days, I greatly appreciate this community

First thing I have to ask is how are you operating the drolet. That's stove should easily outheat any traditional fireplace easily. What moisture content is your wood at?

 

[AlexandreG]

First thing I have to ask is how are you operating the drolet. That's stove should easily outheat any traditional fireplace easily. What moisture content is your wood at?

I'm pushing it as much as i can, it won't burn wood fast enough to give me enough energy unit/ heat output compare to what i need.

I just found a chart on Drolet website, ht-3000 in my area should be ok to warm up 2300sqf, I'm asking too much of it. Plus the house is having very tall ceilings, yes i do have ceilings fan all over the place, huge 8footers ones, but the air mass is way too much for the tiny ht-3000, it aint nothing like my big fireplace that is having a gigantic Thermal mass plus a blower system i made in the firebox, sealed with metal and glass doors kind of insert(I was a boilermaker in a past life), i was able to slow burn my wood as much as the HT -3000 by playing with a throat and a top damper, but could make it extract my btu at a way more decent rate when needed, the thermal mass would then kick up, keeping everything warm for days. Ht-3000 just doesn't have the ability to extract btu fast enough without overheating .


Went digging on osburn website, their 3500 is, according to all specs, an exact copy of the ht-3000.

 

[bholler]

I'm pushing it as much as i can, it won't burn wood fast enough to give me enough energy unit/ heat output compare to what i need.

I just found a chart on Drolet website, ht-3000 in my area should be ok to warm up 2300sqf, I'm asking too much of it. Plus the house is having very tall ceilings, yes i do have ceilings fan all over the place, huge 8footers ones, but the air mass is way too much for the tiny ht-3000, it aint nothing like my big fireplace that is having a gigantic Thermal mass plus a blower system i made in the firebox, sealed with metal and glass doors kind of insert(I was a boilermaker in a past life), i was able to slow burn my wood as much as the HT -3000 by playing with a throat and a top damper, but could make it extract my btu at a way more decent rate when needed, the thermal mass would then kick up, keeping everything warm for days. Ht-3000 just doesn't have the ability to extract btu fast enough without overheating .


Went digging on osburn website, their 3500 is, according to all specs, an exact copy of the ht-3000.

So I take it your running it with the air wide open in that case?

 

[AlexandreG]

So I take it your running it with the air wide open in that case?

Negative, i absolutely can not, it would overheat.

 

[bholler]

Negative, i absolutely can not, it would overheat.

Good you shouldn't be that would be wasting all the heat out the chimney. What pipe temps are you running at? What moisture content is your wood at? Do you have ceiling fans to push the heat back down?

 

[AlexandreG]

Good you shouldn't be that would be wasting all the heat out the chimney. What pipe temps are you running at? What moisture content is your wood at? Do you have ceiling fans to push the heat back down?

Thanks for your help

Vortex double wall from sbi, about 5' before going outside connecting to an insulated prefab, 22ish feet from stove top to chimney cap

I have different stack of wood, don't have a moisture meter

First oak and maple 3 years old

Followed by 2 beech stacks 2 years old and 1 year old

Followed by stacks of bone dried white pine, red pine, fir, coming from the building of my house, been extracted from the forest 3years ago in middle of the winter, added to that piles a whole load of left over kiln dried construction lumber in all sizes.

Also have a stack of trees that are standing up dead that i collect here and there to clean my forest, poplar, fir and larch.

I can tell the difference when it is not dried enough, the stove won't burn great, building a red coal bed that won't consume and block the airways, even with it fully open. Secondary burn won't kick in.

When using properly dried wood the stove won't build up that much of a coal, flames are way more aggressive , i need to shut down 3/4 the air intake otherwise it will overheat fast, secondary burns kicks in properly, and the coal ends up at some point in ashes.


Ceilings fans on first floors are in winter mode.


Ceilings fans on half of the second floor are on summer mode because of the obstruction of the ceilings logs that otherwise blocks the good air movement, the rest are winter mode.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for your help

Vortex double wall from sbi, about 5' before going outside connecting to an insulated prefab, 22ish feet from stove top to chimney cap

I have different stack of wood, don't have a moisture meter

First oak and maple 3 years old

Followed by 2 beech stacks 2 years old and 1 year old

Followed by stacks of bone dried white pine, red pine, fir, coming from the building of my house, been extracted from the forest 3years ago in middle of the winter, added to that piles a whole load of left over kiln dried construction lumber in all sizes.

Also have a stack of trees that are standing up dead that i collect here and there to clean my forest, poplar, fir and larch.

I can tell the difference when it is not dried enough, the stove won't burn great, building a red coal bed that won't consume and block the airways, even with it fully open. Secondary burn won't kick in.

When using properly dried wood the stove won't build up that much of a coal, flames are way more aggressive , i need to shut down 3/4 the air intake otherwise it will overheat fast, secondary burns kicks in properly, and the coal ends up at some point in ashes.


Ceilings fans on first floors are in winter mode.


Ceilings fans on half of the second floor are on summer mode because of the obstruction of the ceilings logs that otherwise blocks the good air movement, the rest are winter mode.

Ok so if the wood is top covered it certainly should be dry enough. What temps are you running at through the pipe?

 

[AlexandreG]

Ok so if the wood is top covered it certainly should be dry enough. What temps are you running at through the pipe?

Yes wood is under a roof structure, never sees rain or snow, but have great airflow from my field's wind.


The sbi stove pipe thermometer is asking me to stay between 400 and 900, which I tend to keep in the higher part (600+) otherwise I dont get much of an heat output, while starting/priming the stove, I let it go pass 1000 before shutting down my air intake, that way the second kicks in properly, it is at that moment I can extract the most heat usually for around a 2-3hours, wich when i have the opportunity i feed it again to keep it in this range. At night I tend to pack it with bigger logs and shut down almost completely the air intake to extend the burn times, flue temp goes down around the 300-400 when i pack it up again mid -night, i would guess it throttle around 500 when I'm sleeping.

Thanks if you have any corrections to what im doing to help extract more heat

 

[bholler]

Yes wood is under a roof structure, never sees rain or snow, but have great airflow from my field's wind.


The sbi stove pipe thermometer is asking me to stay between 400 and 900, which I tend to keep in the higher part (600+) otherwise I dont get much of an heat output, while starting/priming the stove, I let it go pass 1000 before shutting down my air intake, that way the second kicks in properly, it is at that moment I can extract the most heat usually for around a 2-3hours, wich when i have the opportunity i feed it again to keep it in this range. At night I tend to pack it with bigger logs and shut down almost completely the air intake to extend the burn times, flue temp goes down around the 300-400 when i pack it up again mid -night, i would guess it throttle around 500 when I'm sleeping.

Thanks if you have any corrections to what im doing to help extract more heat

I would suggest monitoring stove top temps as well and find out when that is hottest. 600 is still sending an awful lot of heat out of the chimney.

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

The sbi stove pipe thermometer is asking me to stay between 400 and 900, which I tend to keep in the higher part (600+) otherwise I dont get much of an heat output, while starting/priming the stove, I let it go pass 1000 before shutting down my air intake, that way the second kicks in properly, it is at that moment I can extract the most heat usually for around a 2-3hours, wich when i have the opportunity i feed it again to keep it in this range.

I would tend to believe that the heat emitted from a Drolet HT-3000 cruising at 600+ for a couple of hours would chase me away from the stove area looking for a cooler space.

 

[AlexandreG]

I would tend to believe that the heat emitted from a Drolet HT-3000 cruising at 600+ for a couple of hours would chase me away from the stove area looking for a cooler space.

This what I would have expected 😂

It is super comfortable to drink my coffee, or my end of day beer, right in front of it. I mean my rocking chair is like 5 feet from it, if anything i put it a little bit in an angle from the window when it is roaring . My bed is literally right above it, never got too warm, neither my pregnant wife ever complained about being too warm....when she always is.

 

[begreen]

The sbi stove pipe thermometer is asking me to stay between 400 and 900, which I tend to keep in the higher part (600+) otherwise I dont get much of an heat output, while starting/priming the stove,

The 400º to 900º is the "Normal" range on the thermometer, but 800-900º are temps normally only seen briefly on startup if at all. FWIW, we run at about 600º normally too. Usually the flue temp on our stove is about 50º-100º above stove top temp.

 

[AlexandreG]

The 400º to 900º is the "Normal" range on the thermometer, but 800-900º are temps normally only seen briefly on startup if at all. FWIW, we run at about 600º normally too. Usually the flue temp on our stove is about 50º-100º above stove top temp.

Thanks for clarifications, I ain't no expert on wood stove. I see possible improvement in my management of the fire.

I read a lot of your comments and you seem very knowledgeable. What stove would you consider able to give large amount of heat output in short period of time when the air mass to warm is massive and having to deal with Northern Quebec weather often playing in the range of -20 -40 for extended periods of time/ 4-6 months a year? I mean, i would love to have a wood stove i can cruise on a single load for 12+ hours, don't get me wrong, if anything alike exist I'll buy it, but up to now, i find that slow efficient burns won't extract the amount of btu i need to keep up with the heat losses, and hot fast burns that could extract extensive amount of btu are not really tolerated by new stoves.

Would you suggest more to dig in the idea of multiple stoves ? Transferring outside toward boilers?

Gas and electric means of heating are out of option for anything other than buffering.


Thanks again

 

[EbS-P]

Do you have the drolet escape insert?

If yes how big of a space does it heats up in your case? How good/fast do you build up heat? I do appreciate the price of the drolet escape, I'm just a bit worried by the small firebox ability do give enough heat for my situation, even if it is 1/3 of the price, if it does not accomplish the mission, it is wasted money. It could possibly be an idea to install that insert at a fraction of the price if i can replace the ht-3000 for something more powerful that could be the main source of heat in the house

I have the escape 1800i. I live in the South. 1000 sq ft basement. 17’ glass garage door. Two loads a day would keep it 75-80 when the temps 25-35 F.

Based on that you have said you need to to be looking at the biggest insert that will fit. I would not consider anything below 3 cu ft.

I general my recommendations are air seal, air seal, insulate then stove choices become more plentiful.

 

[AlexandreG]

I have the escape 1800i. I live in the South. 1000 sq ft basement. 17’ glass garage door. Two loads a day would keep it 75-80 when the temps 25-35 F.

Based on that you have said you need to to be looking at the biggest insert that will fit. I would not consider anything below 3 cu ft.

I general my recommendations are air seal, air seal, insulate then stove choices become more plentiful.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with me.

I do agree with you, your parameters are completely different of mines, but already with what you say, i understand that this insert ain't for me even with a nice price tag.

I agree with you, in my specific case, the bigger the better.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for clarifications, I ain't no expert on wood stove. I see possible improvement in my management of the fire.

I read a lot of your comments and you seem very knowledgeable. What stove would you consider able to give large amount of heat output in short period of time when the air mass to warm is massive and having to deal with Northern Quebec weather often playing in the range of -20 -40 for extended periods of time/ 4-6 months a year? I mean, i would love to have a wood stove i can cruise on a single load for 12+ hours, don't get me wrong, if anything alike exist I'll buy it, but up to now, i find that slow efficient burns won't extract the amount of btu i need to keep up with the heat losses, and hot fast burns that could extract extensive amount of btu are not really tolerated by new stoves.

Would you suggest more to dig in the idea of multiple stoves ? Transferring outside toward boilers?

Gas and electric means of heating are out of option for anything other than buffering.


Thanks again

I just responded to the other thread on seeking a big stove. That may only provide another 10-20% more heat. See comments in that thread. A larger insert could boost total output by 75-100% depending on what fits.