Help with a patent???

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keyman512us

keyman512us

Member
Hearth Supporter
Feb 27, 2007
804
North Worc. CTY MA
I can see after some initial research why "ideas" in this country go NOWHERE! Anyone ever look into a patent on their idea? I now can see why America is going nowhere when it comes to technological improvement. Even if you have an idea...there is no way to get it to market...I just talked to an attorney who has experience in this field...rather bleak and discouraging. Apparently patent lawyers are few and far between, cost tons of money and can't be trusted. Only in America! Gave me the lowdown on those 'so called' invention submission companies...are all a scam! Apparently this aspect of the law is the "Mount Everest" of "Only the big boys can play here". So I guess since I'm not GE, GM, or TYCO...I'm SOL! So much for a better mouse trap (or smoke stack)...lol

Sidebar note:...If you are a patent attorney or know of one...please let me know....I've been on the Gov website (very frustrating) and I might as well be trying to find out how to build stealth aircraft!!!...Grrrrrrrr
 
I cannot say for sure, but I would venture a guess to say those companies you see on TV advertising that they can help you promote your inventions are scams to some degree. There must be something in it for them, to be advertising on TV, you know.
 
Rick Martin in Longmont Colorado has been doing stuff for a person I know. Whether or not he can be trusted, is good etc. I don't have any idea (personal experience). But the person I know keeps giving him money so he must be doing something worthwhile.
 
Craig Issod (founder of Hearth.com) is the expert here on patents, he teaches some kind of classes on them I heard. In the meantime, I do have some experience in this area. I have two patents at this time, one idea on the market now for over three years.

Please read this thread below, it might help, I will add more later.

Below is a story of my first patent results.

(broken link removed to http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040816/NEWS/408160314&SearchID=73258146335665)

Below is another thread well worth reading to do with patents, originated here on our own forums,

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/5528/

To those who have ever wondered what to do when you get a great idea, I hope these threads will shed some light on this subject. ;-)

Also, I would NEVER use these other "patent help" companies.






Robbie
 
Keyman

I am not an attorney, and hold no patents, but there is one practical thing you should do. Make sure you can document the idea as yours. Put the idea in written form, drawings and text. Get them copyrighted, give a copy to an attorney and have them date registered. The reason is to protect your interests. Two friends have lost the right to pursue their ideas, because someone else had initiated the patent and could document a date they started. They were people who both friends had shared their idea with in confidence. Don't even think about putting it on a forum.
 
Some links from my class at:
https://www.hearth.com/invent/

Basics.....
First, as Rich says, document the idea - have it notarized. If you have any proof of the timeline such as emails, etc. make certain you keep them.

DO NOT use any of those inventions places!

Join a local inventors group if there is one (we have one in Springfield...that reminds me, I'll go to the meeting tonight!

Ok, moving on from there, there is usually no money in patents. I say usually. That does not mean you should not get a patent BUT that the actual making, marketing and selling of the product or idea is where the big bucks come from. Ideas are a dime a dozen...people with the energy and staying power to follow them through is the rare part.

It does cost a bunch - figure about 6-$8,000 to get one unless you do it yourself....and if you do attempt it yourself, you better have time to get educated.

For 50 bucks or less, the book "Patent it Yourself" is a good reference.

A new and interesting service from the Patent Office is a Provisional Patent, which allows you to have 'patent pending" for one year - for $100 - while you prepare and file your real patent.

That should get you started...check out the new Google patent search.
Here are two of my patents:
(broken link removed to http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5320246.html)
(broken link removed to http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7014555.html)

I'm interested in selling/licensing the one for chimney extensions, so if you know anyone who wants to save 4 years in the development process and start an exciting company let me know!
 
Thanks all...
Thanks for the info, the words from experience...and moral support. I have been spending so much time here on the computer my eyes are going cross eyed. I know everyone can probably name a person they kno that has said "I thought of it and they stole my idea". I have "better things to do"...But two of my ideas have already been "stolen"..and I don't want to be able to say "third time is a charm". I have read your post about making $.50/hr in another thread Craig...I can believe it. I'm 255 patents through a string of 1455 on the patent office database "doing my homework". And seeing as it is 3 degrees out for today and tommorow...better to drink a coffee, do some research, and control my overall anxiety level.
..I'm on my third revision of my idea...if I can get a patent on it...it very well may takeoff.
The lawyer told me to put everything in writing...discuss it with someone I can trust...and have both of us sign and date it...In case it does get patented...I dunno...time will tell.
 
keyman512us said:
Thanks all...
Thanks for the info, the words from experience...and moral support. I have been spending so much time here on the computer my eyes are going cross eyed. I know everyone can probably name a person they kno that has said "I thought of it and they stole my idea". I have "better things to do"...But two of my ideas have already been "stolen"..and I don't want to be able to say "third time is a charm". I have read your post about making $.50/hr in another thread Craig...I can believe it. I'm 255 patents through a string of 1455 on the patent office database "doing my homework". And seeing as it is 3 degrees out for today and tommorow...better to drink a coffee, do some research, and control my overall anxiety level.
..I'm on my third revision of my idea...if I can get a patent on it...it very well may takeoff.
The lawyer told me to put everything in writing...discuss it with someone I can trust...and have both of us sign and date it...In case it does get patented...I dunno...time will tell.
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, document and get it signed by an independent third party with a notary.
 
Thanks uncle rich...will do...like I said "I'm doing my homework on this one"
 
Also, please be aware that a patent could take several years after you file.........so be ready for a long wait.

You might want to discuss this with a patent attorney before hand to get an idea how long the wait is and respond accordingly. If your idea is ready to be produced, you might want to ask him about a "patent pending" type deal, this could save you lots of time.

A funny note: I once got an idea, thought I would try a "short cut", so I contacted a major company, they said to send them the idea, and they would look at it and let me know if they have already thought of it. :ahhh:

They said chances were very good they probably already thought of it.............

I still have that idea in my head, they don't............








Robbie
 
They said chances were very good they probably already thought of it.............

I still have that idea in my head, they don’t............

Robbie
Click to expand...
"Great minds think alike..."

"Pleasure to make your aquaintance Robbie"
 
keyman512us, ;-) my pleasure.

I hope to see your idea on the market sometime, please keep us posted.

I often wish we had a "idea workshop" type deal here on the forums, but the way the system works, it just can't be I don't think.




Robbie
 
I have a friend form Maryland who Invented a novel tool. He took the prototype to a Patent attorney in Baltimore. After he showed and explained the tool to this Attorney the Attorney agreed to do the search,registration etc. for a piece of the action. I will post the Attorneys name on here when I as my friend his name.
I think they sold it ....for a nice piece of change and they both made out real well.
Mike
 
I often wish we had a “idea workshop” type deal here on the forums, but the way the system works, it just can’t be I don’t think.

Robbie
Click to expand...
I Know what you mean Robbie...

Mike...Thanks for "chiming in"...If you get the info please let me know. I like the sound of an attorney that "might deal for a piece of the action"...as long as the guy is honest & up-front...I don't mind. Thanks...
 
Remember these points - a patent is not needed nor is usually the first or most important reason an item is a success. It is just one of MANY actions which run parellel during development of a product. You can do real well with many items that are not patentable.

Also, a NEW patent can be granted on a relatively slight improvement to any existing product (even a patented one). So don't let it get you down if you find patents that are close - if yours has improvements (lighter in weight, costs less, ships easier, etc.) - this is patentable.

All in all, probably the biggest piece of general advice that I have to give would be this: You have to be willing to follow through with your idea for a LONG period, perhaps 10 years or more. It takes years to get a patent, develop and prototype, market and finally (hopefully) make money on it, so don't start unless you intend to finish. That is general advice - there are exception, of course, but you are likely to find out that other people are not as excited about your invention as you are and that is why YOU are often the best person to develop the product....at least to a certain extent.

When you look around at successful people....take Dane Harman for instance (Harman Stoves), you will note that he has been making stoves for over 25 years...and that company really only hit the big time in the last 5.

So I like to think that only the stubborn need apply to the product development process.

Again, there are exceptions with simpler tools and markets that are already well established. Robbie, for instance, makes a "better mousetrap" which a person already was going to buy...but Robbies is better than the other one. That is very different than - for instance - my chimney extensions which virtually did not exist before and therefore an entire market has to be created and educated.

Keyman, if you want to pm or email me I'll be glad to agree to non-disclosure and give you my opinion of your idea, etc.

Oh, another thing. Often a patent can be gotten for ONE SMALL PART of your invention and this may be a part you didn't even think of yet. For instance with my 1/2 kettle, the patent covers the fact that the steam is blown away from the fireplace face and also that the handle has built-in stops so the kettle does not tip when you lift it up (when filled with water).

So sometimes you will be able to "patent around" certain features in the existing patents.
 
Robbie said:
I often wish we had a "idea workshop" type deal here on the forums, but the way the system works, it just can't be I don't think.
Robbie
Click to expand...

My ideal job would be having a group of people who had the resources and cash to think up all kinds of improvements and then patent and produce some of them. Really fun.

The ideas are relatively easy - it is what comes after that gets me bogged down. I don't like to have to answer the phone and fill orders. I'd rather think.

For some great ideas, try:
http://www.halfbakery.com/

OH, here's a patent pending thing I have which could probably make million - but I am about to let the application expire since I don't have the time and $$ right now........if anyone wants to get rich, let me know. This device would simply clamp around existing toilet feed tubes or be built into them.

Text of patent pending app in next post
 

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Title: Retrofit Audio and Frequency Toilet Feed Tube Alarm Module

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION--FIELD OF INVENTION

This invention relates to water supply feed tubes which are used to refill toilets after flush, specifically to alarms for same that are able to be installed on the toilet supply without disassembly of plumbing components.

DESCRIPTION:

Improved toilet alarm module is shown complete in Figure 1. Fig 1-1 and 1-3 show toilet supply water line which module 1-2 is installed around by means of hinges Fig. 1-6 and Screw Fig. 1-5. Fig 1-4 illustrates control panel and LED’s/ audio alarm.
Fig. 2 represents a cross-section of said module showing inner tube Fig. 2-7 which lines interior to avoid condensation onto electronic circuits. Sensing Microphone 2-8 and circuit assembly 2-9 are also show in this section.
Figure 3 shows common toilet supply tubes of the rigid and flexible varieties on which the invention mounts.
Figure 4 shows a complete toilet installation with Fig. 4-10 showing one possible position of the module and Fig. 4-11 showing a typical manual shut off valve.

SUMMARY

A small module, typically made of plastic with integrated electronics, sensing microphone and water-resistant interior tube. This module hinges or detaches into two or more parts so that it can be easily installed, retrofitted and serviced on existing toilet feed tubes. When used as part of a new toilet feed tube assembly the same detachable features allow for replacement and service. The Alarm is inexpensive both to manufacture and to the consumer and uses audio sensing and timing circuits for both monitoring the time between fills as well as deciding when to sign, flash or otherwise transit an alarm.

OPERATION

In operation, the module uses a microphone to sense the amplitude of the water rushing through the feed tube and conversely the relative silence of the tube when the water flow has stopped. The alarm, which can be LED, Audio or even wired or wireless transmission is triggered by means of an electronic timer/counter which is adjustable to fit various toilet-use scenarios. The alarm in turn provides a signal to residents, maintenance or other personnel that the toilet is in need of service.
 
Craig, I really like your idea, imagine how much this device could save these huge apartment complex in big cities on just water use alone.

This is not counting the "alarmed notification" for regular maintenence to keep thousands of commodes running smoothly.

Or add in maintence for fixing floors where commodes run over etc.

I think you need to contact Moen..............


Robbie ;-)
 
Craig,
I like the idea...Robbie's too:
This is not counting the “alarmed notification” for regular maintenence to keep thousands of commodes running smoothly.
Click to expand...

Let's talk...(lol)
 
There actually exists a number of devices to stop water from flowing in commercial applications - and there are some patents on items for residential apps, although my idea was documented before their invention.

The problem is that they solve the situation the wrong way. Their unit require plumbing and has all kind of parts making it cost about $100. It does actually shut off the flow, which some would see as an advantage, but when your hotel room john stops working it is going to be a disadvantage! There is a good market for his invention(s), but a vastly bigger one for mine since it is simpler, less costly and can be installed in 10 seconds. Here is one of the existing units.....this guy has filed about 6 patents because he keeps getting it wrong and then tries to correct it. Sooner or later he will get around to my idea...he's getting close in the newest patents.

http://www.aquaone.com/main.asp
 
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