Help with a wood stove decision

[andyfilius]

Hello, I just built a home and ran a chimney down to my basement for a wood stove. After getting my propane bill i'm ready to buy a wood stove and get to business. I've done some research locally and have a few options. Not a bad time to buy a stove with it being the end of the season. My stove would be in the basement. But we've built the home with a large, open staircase to the main level. I think a 2-2,500 square foot heating unit would work fine. All of these are high efficiency units.

What does everyone think of these options?:

1. HearthStone (with soapstone on the outside of the stove to heat up and hold heat)
Mansfield model -- 3.2 cu.ft.
floor model on sale for $2,195


2. Quadrafire
4300 model -- 2.4 cu.ft.
$1,599


3. Enerzone
Solution 2.3 wood stove -- 2.3 cu.ft.
floor model on sale for $1,399

Solution 2.9 -- 2.9 cu.ft.
$1,999


Let me know any opinions or thoughts on these options. Of course trying to get an economical stove as well, money is tight these days

thanks

 

[Pagey]

Is your basement finished and insulated? I'd read up here: (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/basement_install.html) to learn more about a basement installation.

Heating that many square feet, I'd go with a stove that has at least a 3.0 cubic foot firebox.

 

[andyfilius]

Right now the basement is not finished, but is partially insulated. I'm working on the insulation part. It will need to heat over 2,000 square feet. I do have a more modern floor plan as noted, so there's no door to the basement. Just an open stairway up, so it should rise nicely through the home.

 

[Pagey]

Yes, heat rises, but please read the linked article about heat loss through the unfinished walls. Heat can't rise very effectively if you're losing through your walls!

 

[andyfilius]

Just reading through the article. I will make sure my cement walls are well insulated. And we'll be finishing the basement within a couple years. OK, so i understand the importance of insulation, thanks for the great article and reference.

Any opinions on the brands or specific stoves mentioned?

 

[andyfilius]

If you think i'll need something in the 3 cu.ft. range, Enerzone also offers a 2.9 cu.ft. unit
price is $1,999.

Any advice on brand is appreciated. I know that none of these options offer a side load, and that only the Mansfield has an ash tray. I can see pros/cons to that. Was wondering about the SoapStone exterior which offers a more lasting radiant heat vs. a traditional iron option.

 

[Pagey]

Well, with today's EPA certified stoves you've really got three choices: soapstone, plate steel, or cast iron. You can't beat the beauty of the soapstone or the cast iron, but a well built plate steel stove is a real workhorse that's hard to destroy. Some soapstone models are considered "overfired" at 600F, for example, whereas a plate steel might not overfire until you're in excess of 800F.

You'll also want to consider if you want a catalytic or a non-catalytic stove. Each has its pros and cons. Go here: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/woodstoves.htm) and scroll down to the Combustion Design section to understand the difference if you're not familiar.

The Hearthstone and Quadrafire brands are both reputable brands. If you decide to go with plate steel, there are also many reliable brands out there. I have a Lopi Endeavor (plate steel) which is made by Travis Industries. Some others will chime in soon, I'm sure, and take the time to read several different threads so you get first hand insight from the owners of various models.

And, finally, make SURE you get a head start on your wood supply. 99% of all problems can be summed up with two words: wet wood. ;-)

 

[andyfilius]

Some great information. thanks!

What is your opinion on the Catalytic vs. non-catalytic?

thanks,
andy

 

[Pagey]

I have only used the non-catalytic, so I can't give you first hand experience about the catalytic. There are a lot of people who use the Woodstock Fireview, which is both a soapstone and a catalytic stove. From what I've read, it gives good heat with really, really long burn times because of the catalyst.

What I can tell you about the non-catalytic, is that with good, dry wood it works like a charm. It creates a beautiful fire, and it really radiates a lot of heat during the first part of the burn cycle (first 3-4 hours). After that, the stove will still cruise around 400F, but to get that nice, 650F burn you have to keep it crammed full.

Hopefully one of the Fireview users will chime in with how many sq. ft. they're successfully heating.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hello, I just built a home and ran a chimney down to my basement for a wood stove. After getting my propane bill i'm ready to buy a wood stove and get to business. I've done some research locally and have a few options. Not a bad time to buy a stove with it being the end of the season. My stove would be in the basement. But we've built the home with a large, open staircase to the main level. I think a 2-2,500 square foot heating unit would work fine. All of these are high efficiency units.

What does everyone think of these options?:

1. HearthStone (with soapstone on the outside of the stove to heat up and hold heat)
Mansfield model -- 3.2 cu.ft.
floor model on sale for $2,195


2. Quadrafire
4300 model -- 2.4 cu.ft.
$1,599


3. Enerzone
Solution 2.3 wood stove -- 2.3 cu.ft.
floor model on sale for $1,399

Solution 2.9 -- 2.9 cu.ft.
$1,999


Let me know any opinions or thoughts on these options. Of course trying to get an economical stove as well, money is tight these days

thanks

I am not an expert . . . nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night . . . so take my advice with a grain of salt.

From the sound of it you will want a large woodstove based on your space. Also, from what I have read here it sounds like heating the basement isn't always the most best solution, but for folks that opt to or need to go that route it is always a good idea to insulate first.

If I had to do a basement installation I honestly think I would go with a steel or cast iron stove . . . and of those two I would go with a large steel stove. I absolutely love the look of the soapstone, but based on its "gentle heat" descriptions from users I wonder how effective it would be pumping out the heat in the basement and then having the heat move upstairs (although someone using a soapstone stove should by all means jump in here and correct me if I'm way off base) . . . plus if all you want is good, clean heat and lots of it and the stove isn't a "show piece" (i.e. not a focus point of a living room for example) it seems to me that any newer, name brand stove with a good history should be able to do the job (no offense is meant to steel or cast iron, but to me the soapstone and cast iron enamel stoves just have a nicer look than most -- not all -- steel stoves which as an added benefit are often less expensive price-wise . . . but then again beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder and quite honestly my main consideration in purchasing a stove would be reliability and whether or not it will heat my home adequately.

 

[andyfilius]

Good advice. I grew up with cast iron stoves, and I know well the instant and hot heat that they can put out. Based on the fact the soapstone is a slower growing, radiant heat you may be right. I'm personally more modern in my style and don't mind a sleek, black box. In contrast to the more "old-worldly" looking soapstone. I could still go either way however.

Based on fear of buying too small of a box, the Enerzone 2.9 sounds like it would do the trick. The guy who ran the chimney for me, and installed a double sided gas fireplace on my main level for me said that the 2.9 would do me right, but i could get by with the 2.3.

What's tearing at me is the price difference. I know I'll make up the cost in comparison to propane, so just wondering how you guys would decide based on space and price.

 

[Pagey]

We're heating 1,800 sq. ft. (moderate insulation/windows) with 1,000 of that downstairs and 800 upstairs. My Lopi Endeavor has a 2.2 cubic ft. firebox. As much as I love this stove, I cannot see it heating any more than it does. And in really cold weather, you get about 4 hours of what I call "useable" heat before you'd want to reload. I can only imagine how it would struggle in a basement.

I would highly, highly recommend you go with at least a 3.0 cubic ft firebox, my friend. You'll thank yourself later, trust me. You can put less wood in a bigger box on milder days, but you can't, no matter what, cram any more in a 2.3 box!

 

[woodburn]

That is a great price on the mansfield- I would scoop it up. They might even negotiate even more since it's a floor model. I strongly recommend putting a floor register located directly above the stove. This would let a lot of heat rise straight up into the living area. It could be one that you could close off when the stove is not in use. You could even put an inline fan between the floor joists to blow that hot air up their if you wanted to. Also, I have a question- What is your plan for lugging all that wood down there? I have considered a basement stove and this is one of my biggest issues with it.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, for your climate I'd look at a 3 cu ft stove. You will appreciate the longer burntimes and reserves for those below zero weeks. The best priced unit would probably be an Englander 30NC (under $1000). I'd also consider a Napoleon 1900 (~$1700), Quad 5700, PE Summit stoves (~$1800).

While insulating, be sure to pay attention to the rim joist and bottom plate. There should be no leaks there, caulk like crazy, it will pay off. Then insulate the rim joist areas.

 

[Pagey]

Yep, sounds like you might be looking at a Pacific Energy Summit or Summit Classic:

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_summit.php)

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_summit_classic.php)

My paternal grandmother is heating her home with a Lopi Liberty, which is the big brother to my stove. It's a well made stove that really throws the heat.

(broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/productuide/detail.aspx?id=211)

And, as suggested, I don't see how you can go wrong with the Englander 30. Seems to be one of the best bang/buck ratios on the market if you require heat without fancy looks.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Just to throw our hat in the mix...I'd say look at our SJ125.
It's not a pretty stove but a well built furnace. Hit my link to look at them.
I know the SJ125 could heat 3000 s/f if ducted with a blower and they can run without power.

 

[andyfilius]

Great, I will read up on these options tonight. My only concern with some of these other brands is not being able to source them locally in West Michigan.

And, to answer an earlier question, i have a walk out basement. So getting wood into the basement isn't a problem. I even have a sub-garage on the lower level. So i can store wood there without having to trudge through snow to get to the wood shed

 

[Jack Straw]

Whatever you go with try it 1st without putting in any registers. I have a stove (Lopi Endeavor) in my basement with an open stairway and we get all the heat we need upstairs. I thought we would need a register, but we don't.

**Question** Do cast iron stoves move the heat through a house like a steel stove or do they just radiate heat??

 

[edthedawg]

It boils down to BTU's (how much heat you make) and convection loops (how you move that heat around).

BTU's = firebox size, fuel quality, and burning practices. All good things to consider and you've got good advice so far. I'd go w/ the Mansfield myself - that's a great price - but I'd also not want to heat from the basement if I could avoid it. Your setup sounds favorable to it, however. Soapstone, steel, cast iron - they all have their unique heat transfer qualities. Plate steel can handle the thermal stresses w/ thinner sections than cast iron, so there's less thermal mass as a result, but probably not a huge difference in terms of surface temps and the ability to use those hot surfaces for purposes of convection and radiation.

Convection loops are trickier. You really don't "move heat". You move heated air. And really, what you want to do is move cold air, and push it toward the stove - give it energy, let it do its thing (rise and return naturally to lower energy state by transferring heat to you, wife, walls, furniture, floors, etc.) and then loop back. You can radiate heat in the immediate vicinity, but good convection loopage will make your whole house much happier.

And I kinda shudder at the thought of combustible clearances around something large sitting constantly at 800+F.

 

[b121]

With a Lopi Endeavor I tried heating a finished basement (1500 sf) with open stairs and my main floor (1500 sf)
thinking the heat would rise up the open stairs to the main floor.
All I got was 90 + degress in the basement an 65 degrees on the main floor.
With a lite candle I could detect cold air returning to the basement along the nosing of the stair steps and warm air
flowing up stairs along the ceiling of the basement to the open stairs. So there was an exchange of hot/cold air taking place
but not at the volume required to comfortably heat both floor levels. Floor grates may have helped improve this hot/cold air exchange, but from what I've read
about a wood stove in the basement, it's still difficult getting the proper hot/cold air exchange.
We don't use the finished basement very much so for next winter I just recently installed a Woodsock Fireview at my main level and the basement will be heated with oil (hot water baseboard) with the thermostat turned back to 60 degrees.

 

[quinn]

I agree that in a basement application a large steel stove would be the best fit. While I use two cast iron Jotul stoves I have to say that I am very impressed with the Pacific Energy stove lines. I have three friends who use them and they are workhorses that last, put out good heat with long, clean burns, and are very easy to manage. Were I in your shoes I would get the Summit without hesitation.

 

[andyfilius]

Thanks for the heads up on the Pacific. I will see who a local dealer is in my area. I understand the heat exchange between the basement and the main level may not always be as good as you'd expect. I am confident I have a good design to the home (just built it). And, frankly, it's my only option right now

 

[begreen]

The T6 is one of the easiest stoves to load and run that I've owned. At heart it's a Summit.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumm.htm)

 

[karri0n]

Englander 30 seems a good fit if you aren't looking for looks or like the look of a steel box(like you mentioned), and you can pay almost 1k less than any other 3.0ft competitor. I've seen people get those monsters for $500(OMG cheap!)

 

[Jack Straw]

With a Lopi Endeavor I tried heating a finished basement (1500 sf) with open stairs and my main floor (1500 sf)
thinking the heat would rise up the open stairs to the main floor.
All I got was 90 + degress in the basement an 65 degrees on the main floor.
With a lite candle I could detect cold air returning to the basement along the nosing of the stair steps and warm air
flowing up stairs along the ceiling of the basement to the open stairs. So there was an exchange of hot/cold air taking place
but not at the volume required to comfortably heat both floor levels. Floor grates may have helped improve this hot/cold air exchange, but from what I've read
about a wood stove in the basement, it's still difficult getting the proper hot/cold air exchange.
We don't use the finished basement very much so for next winter I just recently installed a Woodsock Fireview at my main level and the basement will be heated with oil (hot water baseboard) with the thermostat turned back to 60 degrees.

I think you had too small of a stove for you area. I am Heating 1500 sf in total with an endeavor.