Help with install

[NateH]

Okay, guys I'm finally ready to start building my hearth and order flue pipe and all the appropriate parts that I need for my install. However, I am not sure if I should install through the wall and up the side of the house... or if I should try to fit a liner in my chimney then connect to class A on the roof.

With both installations there are hiccups. If I go through the wall and outside, I'll end up with approximately 32 inches of horizontal pipe section, and something tells me that would be too much... however, this method would be the easiest for me to install.

If I go into the chimney I'll still have to install a thimble and use an elbow in the room but it will immediately connect to the liner then go up and out the chimney... this is good, but what is bad is the fact that the previous owner of my house roofed over my chimney sometime in the past... at first I thought this was no big deal, I would just install an anchor/transition plate at the top of my chimney but I'm not sure how that will work since the asphalt roof now covers the existing chimney... would a transition plate still work? Would there be enough roof to even install the flashing and pipe going out the roof if I could somehow make the transition plate work? The chimney sits right at the edge/exterior of my house and I'm afraid there literally wouldn't be enough roof, etc to make this install work... and on top of all of that the inside dimensions of my chimney are only about 8"x8"... going to put a picture or two up.

 

[begreen]

I would tear out the chimney/fireplace completely. As is stands it's a liability. After that it's your call. I am a strong believer in trying to locate the chimney inside and go straight up. With the fireplace removed you may want to completely reconfigure that room and reverse furniture arrangements. Play around with this if an interior chimney is at all possible. If exterior metal chimney with the fireplace removed then I'd rather notch the soffit than have a long horizontal section.

 

[NateH]

Begreen, you said it's a liability... are you talking safety issues here. I guess I should have stated that I'm going to build a frame for the hearth, build it out from the old fireplace, insulate with Roxul, then cover with Durock, then do a stone surround... I thought this would be a good solution.

I understand a central located fireplace would be more ideal and provide more efficient heat, but where the fireplace is currently located fits best with the room and house, and on most importantly, it's what the wife wants...

 

[begreen]

I'm just talking about the fireplace as it stands now. It has little value other than a chase. I was talking about installing a freestanding stove in another location but maybe I misunderstood. Are you installing an insert in the fireplace or a freestanding stove in front of it? Where would the thimble and 32" horiz. piece be going?

Would it be possible to notch the soffit and have a mason rebuild the top of the chimney and flash the roof repair?

 

[NateH]

I'm going to install a free standing wood stove (Jotul Oslo 500) in front of the fireplace. Going to totally revamp the face of the fireplace, close it up, build the hearth out into the living room, basically giving that section an entire new look.

I hear what you're saying about ripping the whole thing down and starting fresh, but I can at least give the interior a much needed facelift and make it nice and pretty, just want to do everything right in the process.

I was going to install the thimble into the masonry chimney then through the backside of it, and up the house or chimney rather... I know this is kind of whacky, but we've been living in this construction zone since June, and I really want to use this wood burner this season...

 

[NateH]

.... this is why I originally wanted to install a liner in the existing chimney but I don't know if it's possible since the previous owner literally eliminated the exit of the chimney by shingling over it some years back....

I did consider extending the brick chimney so I could then fit it with a transition plate and all would be good, I think... I'm at work now, will have to take a few better pictures tomorrow so it's easier to see what I'm dealing with.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm going to install a free standing wood stove (Jotul Oslo 500) in front of the fireplace. Going to totally revamp the face of the fireplace, close it up, build the hearth out into the living room, basically giving that section an entire new look.

I hear what you're saying about ripping the whole thing down and starting fresh, but I can at least give the interior a much needed facelift and make it nice and pretty, just want to do everything right in the process.

I was going to install the thimble into the masonry chimney then through the backside of it, and up the house or chimney rather... I know this is kind of whacky, but we've been living in this construction zone since June, and I really want to use this wood burner this season...

Will a liner fit up the chimney? Maybe hard to tell since the top is shingled over. You'll want to figure that out.

I don't think you'll want to go all the way through both sides to run an external pipe up the outside.

Nate, you seem to be waffling, and I don't fault you, as this is all new and few options are going to be cheap, easy, or optimal. You're either going to need to get your hands real dirty up on that roof to assess the suitability of the chimney, or listen to begreen's advice, or employ some professional assistance.

You might find that the Mrs. NateH is offering her opinion as an attempt to help move this along, and if you offer a strong, focused, and reasoned approach to an alternative to what you've been discussing, and commit to banging it out once you've decided, she may be open to the new plan.

 

[Toomb]

I would have a mason come out and restore the top of the chimney, and then use that. Taking the chimney down isn't complicated or expensive, but what about the siding? Can't tell what it is in the pics, but can you match it? Chris

 

[NateH]

I could match the siding, but wow, I'm definitely not there yet... at least at the moment ripping the whole chimney down is a last resort. I've been working on my house putting this addition on and remodeling for some time now, and I was hoping this stove/hearth install would be the one project that went smoothly...

Ed, you are correct sir... I am waffling, and wish I wasn't. I'm starting to believe there are a few good ways to move forward with this install and taking the roof apart and adding a few bricks to the chimney might be one of them.

Any other ideas will be much appreciated... again, when I get home this afternoon, I will try to snap a few more pictures that are a little better.

thanks guys.

 

[bholler]

I could match the siding, but wow, I'm definitely not there yet... at least at the moment ripping the whole chimney down is a last resort. I've been working on my house putting this addition on and remodeling for some time now, and I was hoping this stove/hearth install would be the one project that went smoothly...

Ed, you are correct sir... I am waffling, and wish I wasn't. I'm starting to believe there are a few good ways to move forward with this install and taking the roof apart and adding a few bricks to the chimney might be one of them.

Any other ideas will be much appreciated... again, when I get home this afternoon, I will try to snap a few more pictures that are a little better.

thanks guys.

If it was my house i would rebuild the top of the chimney and drop a liner as long as the rest of the masonry structure is in good shape

 

[NateH]

bholler, thanks. I just saw another recent thread and the OP is dealing with pretty much EXACTLY the same scenario as I am... it looks like most people are suggesting to him to go with a liner, insulate it, attach an anchor plate to the top of the chimney and then the double wall out and up...

Quick question. What is the difference between an anchor plate and transition plate? I noticed Champion sells both, but their Transition Plate is much more expensive.

 

[bholler]

bholler, thanks. I just saw another recent thread and the OP is dealing with pretty much EXACTLY the same scenario as I am... it looks like most people are suggesting to him to go with a liner, insulate it, attach an anchor plate to the top of the chimney and then the double wall out and up...

Quick question. What is the difference between an anchor plate and transition plate? I noticed Champion sells both, but their Transition Plate is much more expensive.

The transition plate has the collar on the bottom to attach the liner to the anchor plate does not. In the other thread it makes sense to me to transition because the masonry is not external. In your case transitioning would work fine but rebuilding the top of the masonry would look much better.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I could match the siding, but wow, I'm definitely not there yet... at least at the moment ripping the whole chimney down is a last resort. I've been working on my house putting this addition on and remodeling for some time now, and I was hoping this stove/hearth install would be the one project that went smoothly...

Ed, you are correct sir... I am waffling, and wish I wasn't. I'm starting to believe there are a few good ways to move forward with this install and taking the roof apart and adding a few bricks to the chimney might be one of them.

Any other ideas will be much appreciated... again, when I get home this afternoon, I will try to snap a few more pictures that are a little better.

thanks guys.

The first time doing anything is the hardest, and this is pretty technical stuff. I waffled a lot before I finally decided and moved forward. You've got a powerful desire to do this, that's the most important ingredient here.

Do you already have the stove?

You need to figure out whether you can use the chimney, and it seems like you'll have to get up there and get those shingles off to know. Are you comfortable getting up on the roof and potentially compromising the roofing?

I climbed up on my roof three times to make sure my chimney was going to be usable. On that third trip, I decided that I'd need a lift, scaffolding, or a platform to work from if I was going to proceed. Unexpected $$$.

You might find that the chimney won't accommodate an insulated 6" liner, or it will with some significant work, like breaking out the tiles all the way down. Then there's knocking the hole out where the pipe will enter the chimney. Stressful stuff if it's your first. And all significant costs if you decide to get help.

Don't let any of this deter you. Just go into it knowing that it's a big job and you may run into dead ends along the way. I gained an enormous amount of respect for the folks who do this stuff for a living by doing it myself.

 

[NateH]

Ed, all very helpful advice. Thanks!

I'm a bit overwhelmed, but not deterred. I have been tackling what I thought were impossible obstacles since I started the addition/remodel on my house 6 months ago. At first glance, almost everything I've done to date seemed daunting to say the least, but when I actually plan and plan and plan and actually MAKE the COMMITTMENT to addressing these issues one problem at a time and commit to a game plan, stress starts to alleviate, the problem no longer feels like a problem but just another box to check off before it's all said and done.

I did decide a lift or scaffold will be the way to go for me... I don't think I can work off a ladder safely to even inspect the roof let alone install flue pipe and/or cut a hole in my roof.

Going to post pictures prob at about 5 or 6 this afternoon...

 

[begreen]

Ed, you are correct sir... I am waffling, and wish I wasn't. I'm starting to believe there are a few good ways to move forward with this install and taking the roof apart and adding a few bricks to the chimney might be one of them.

Waffling is good, you are thinking out the options. Take your time and ask lots of questions. When it feels right, you'll know it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Waffling is good, you are thinking out the options. Take your time and ask lots of questions. When it feels right, you'll know it.

I'm going to show this to my woman and explain that you are a sage man of great wisdom and experience. While patient, she does have her limits. I sometimes waffle for years over things. Current examples include the permanent block off plate construction, the location for the woodshed and greenhouse, insulating the attic,... . There probably does come a time to be decisive, but when circumstances allow, patience can indeed be rewarded with great clarity.

I think my waffling allowance for the kitchen remodel is quickly coming to an end. I'd like to help Nate avoid a similar scenario with Mrs. NateH. We don't want to see him update his avatar with one showing just Nate and his chimney.

 

[begreen]

6 months after moving into our house I blitzed the kitchen and remodeled it. That bought me beaucoup time and grace for tackling other issues.

 

[NateH]

Some more pics I took yesterday.

 

[bholler]

View attachment 216848 Some more pics I took yesterday.

Yeah i would line that and from that angle i dont think class a ontop would look bad at all. If it was me i would consider some of the pweder coated stuff from ventis/champoin though. I just think it would look better

 

[cjgoode]

I had worked with the guys at woodlanddirect.com, they have some guys who are allegedly experts at flues and drafts etc. I needed to go through the wall as attic is way to small to try and go in and go through the roof and I was kind of determined not to make a hole in the metal roof. So I also did not want to go through the eve. So I go up about 7 feet from my stove 90 degrees and 18 inches to my wall thimble. Then I go to a 36 inch horizontal triple wall pipe to the T so that I could get beyond the eve, and then up 9 feet. They said the horizontal run was not an issue, only change to my plan was going up 9 feet where I had 6 feet. That extra 3 feet would be important to a good draft. I have no problem getting a fire to light, seems like I have a great draft and no problems getting the draft started. My problem now is some good DRY wood, but that is a separate issue. So the horizontal run, while not the best is doable and acceptable.

 

[NateH]

Thanks, CJ. Yeah, if I have to do that I will, but I do prefer to go up through the chimney and out the roof... not going to be easy for me, though. Definitely will work better than attaching a chimney to a chimney (my plan B) you know? I think a liner will also save me a few dollars, maybe...

Bholler, the class A colored pipe, you called pewter?... can I get that on woodland direct? That's where I was going to order everything, they're having a 5% sale on everything through the 3rd... hopefully there's no fine print. My wife prefers that look over SS but I don't know. I kind of like the shiny SS look.... in the end, the almighty dollar might win out.

 

[bholler]

Thanks, CJ. Yeah, if I have to do that I will, but I do prefer to go up through the chimney and out the roof... not going to be easy for me, though. Definitely will work better than attaching a chimney to a chimney (my plan B) you know? I think a liner will also save me a few dollars, maybe...

Bholler, the class A colored pipe, you called pewter?... can I get that on woodland direct? That's where I was going to order everything, they're having a 5% sale on everything through the 3rd... hopefully there's no fine print. My wife prefers that look over SS but I don't know. I kind of like the shiny SS look.... in the end, the almighty dollar might win out.

I honestly dont know what is available from online retailers

 

[bholler]

Thanks, CJ. Yeah, if I have to do that I will, but I do prefer to go up through the chimney and out the roof... not going to be easy for me, though. Definitely will work better than attaching a chimney to a chimney (my plan B) you know? I think a liner will also save me a few dollars, maybe...

Bholler, the class A colored pipe, you called pewter?... can I get that on woodland direct? That's where I was going to order everything, they're having a 5% sale on everything through the 3rd... hopefully there's no fine print. My wife prefers that look over SS but I don't know. I kind of like the shiny SS look.... in the end, the almighty dollar might win out.

And that should say powder coated sorry

 

[NateH]

Is the powder coating something that I would have to maintain more often than Stainless? I guess it is stainless just coated, huh.

 

[bholler]

Is the powder coating something that I would have to maintain more often than Stainless? I guess it is stainless just coated, huh.

No extra maintenance needed and yes it is stainless under the powder coat. I will say that powder coating class a is a relatively new thing so we really dont know how well it will hold up. It should be fine but unexpected things happen sometimes.