Homemade Attic Insulation Guard?

[kevinmoelk]

I posed this question in another thread, but thought I'd just ask directly. Can an attic insulation guard be made? Is there a good reason why I should buy one?

My thought is that an attic insulation guard could simply be a box of sheet metal used to keep the insulation away from the chimney.

Please advise.

-Kevin

 

[Roospike]

Are you going from a 1 st floor through a second floor ( 2 ceilings ) and through the attic ?

Pictured is how i had to run my pipe through my house....
Through the first floor ceiling and through the second floor ceiling and into the attic i built boxes out of concret board because #1 the floor joist of the first to second floor are 2"x12" s and the attic is 2"x8" s and once into the attic i didnt have enough room for a insulation boot ( tho i had bought it already ) as the roof was too close to the ceiling joist of where my pipe came through.
This was done because i had to and not to save a $.

When installing your chimney make sure you do it right and do it on the side of safty vs a few dollars in your pocket , this is a one time deal so make sure its done correct.

 

[G-rott]

I posed this question in another thread, but thought I'd just ask directly.


Can an attic insulation guard be made?


Is there a good reason why I should buy one?

My thought is that an attic insulation guard could simply be a box of sheet metal used to keep the insulation away from the chimney.

Please advise.


-Kevin

Yes
No
Good thought
Secure it well to the framing, in the attic, that it won't move during insulation instilation.
Garett

 

[webbie]

In theory you could make it - we used to do this sometimes before they existed!

But, keep in mind they are vented out the top and therefore part and parcel of the cooling design of the chimney. Also, some are designed for more than keeping just insulation away - they keep other possible falling objects from getting into the ceiling support.

Of course, one could build a wood frame box a few inches away also.

As shown, this is often covered in the instructions as a way to box in the pipe on the job.

 

[Jay H]

Mine was mfgred but I don't see why one can't simply make one. I installed R25 over existing insulation not too long ago and saw the mfgred insulation guard and stuffed insulation around it. No fires yet

Jay

 

[kevinmoelk]

Thanks for the information folks.

Perhaps I should elaborate on my specific situation. I just bought a used stove and chimney. The chimney is a metalbestos ss-2. On one section of the chimney there are brackets which are secured to either side, presumably to attach to the framing and provide support for the chimney. I did not receive a ceiling support box, nor did I receive an attic insulation guard. The only other piece that came with it relating to the ceiling is basically a flimsy beauty trim ring that clearly would not support the weight of the chimney.

If the brackets were taking the weight of the chimney, and the beauty ring covering up the oversized hole from the inside, then the only piece I need is the attic insulation guard.

Craig, my thought was to leave the guard completely open on top. I'm curious as to what other purposes exist. You mentioned that they keep crud out of the ceiling support box, but again I don't have one of those anyway. Do I really need one, or can I use the brackets that were previously attached? What's the decision making process here. Please advise.

I'm not trying to skimp and save a few bucks at the risk of burning my house down. But at the same time I see no need to spend the money if the purpose is to only keep insulation away. Why spend $100 bucks when I could easily build one for $20?

-Kevin

 

[Roospike]

I posted an installation guide to help you go by , open the attachment pic and take a look at what you'll need.

If the brackets were taking the weight of the chimney, and the beauty ring covering up the oversized hole from the inside, then the only piece I need is the attic insulation guard.

The brackets are used for outside and or wall mount support , if inside you'll need the ceiling support , if outside you'll need the bottom support ( at the base of the T / 90° ) either was your going to need a support boot.

If going straight up then your need a ceiling support boot , fire stops shield , insulation shield ect .. ect..
When i bought my insulation shield it was $44. so not a big savings there.



Again , are you going through 2 ceilings>?

 

[Roospike]

Here is another one.

http://www.mtlfab.com/media/l898_pgs2-3.pdf

 

[kevinmoelk]

I posted an installation guide to help you go by , open the attachment pic and take a look at what you'll need.

If the brackets were taking the weight of the chimney, and the beauty ring covering up the oversized hole from the inside, then the only piece I need is the attic insulation guard.

The brackets are used for outside and or wall mount support , if inside you'll need the ceiling support , if outside you'll need the bottom support ( at the base of the T / 90° ) either was your going to need a support boot.

If going straight up then your need a ceiling support boot , fire stops shield , insulation shield ect .. ect..
When i bought my insulation shield it was $44. so not a big savings there.



Again , are you going through 2 ceilings>?

Okay, I'm beginning to understand. The home is a one story home, so only one ceiling and then through the roof.

Not sure how these brackets would work for a wall mount unless there is a piece missing. I don't think they would reach beyond the diameter of the chimney pipe to provide adequate distance away from combustibles. I can however see how it would work for a ceiling or roof configuration.

Still, if I can get the brackets to work and maintain the necessary clearance, then why would I need a ceiling support boot? What exactly does a ceiling support accomplish beyond supporting the chimney? Why is it better than using the brackets?

If the attic insulation guard could be made then why buy one? Admittedly $40 is not a big deal, but I figure I'd have some extra cement board around after building the hearth pad.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to figure out what exactly I need to do before I go about this whole project. Some guys just build, but I like to plan, plan again, and then build. Thanks for the help Roospike.

-Kevin

 

[Shane]

There is no sense really in purchasing one. Simply make your own. What some would be worried about is that you are not using "listed" components in the system. The chimney system is UL listed with the components the manufacturers supplies. The worry is that your "modification" of the listed system may attribute ot failure. OR more realistically that if there ever was a failure and the insurance co's were involved there is a chance they could blame you for negligence becasue you modified the system. Long and short of it is that unless you block air flow then your not going to hurt anything by building your own attic insulation shield. As Craig pointed out many installers were building them for years before pipe manufacturers started manufacturing them.

 

[Dave_1]

Kevin,

Try a heating & air conditioning shop for an open piece of duct that is 4” larger, & at least 16“ in length, then the I.D. of your class A chimney.

And, depending on your rafter / truss pattern, on 24” or 16” centers, buy 2 flat sheets of appropriate sized tin.

Once you got a sharpie, Dremel or “nibbler”, 3/8” drill, steel bits, 1” deck screws then have at it & save $30 pesos, senor. ;-)

Dave

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the information folks.

Perhaps I should elaborate on my specific situation. I just bought a used stove and chimney. The chimney is a metalbestos ss-2. On one section of the chimney there are brackets which are secured to either side, presumably to attach to the framing and provide support for the chimney. I did not receive a ceiling support box, nor did I receive an attic insulation guard. The only other piece that came with it relating to the ceiling is basically a flimsy beauty trim ring that clearly would not support the weight of the chimney.

If the brackets were taking the weight of the chimney, and the beauty ring covering up the oversized hole from the inside, then the only piece I need is the attic insulation guard.

Craig, my thought was to leave the guard completely open on top. I'm curious as to what other purposes exist. You mentioned that they keep crud out of the ceiling support box, but again I don't have one of those anyway. Do I really need one, or can I use the brackets that were previously attached? What's the decision making process here. Please advise.

I'm not trying to skimp and save a few bucks at the risk of burning my house down. But at the same time I see no need to spend the money if the purpose is to only keep insulation away. Why spend $100 bucks when I could easily build one for $20?

-Kevin

Any possibility of getting a cable for your camera asap? It's hard to help without seeing the pieces and setup. But from the description, the bracket sounds like adjustable roof brackets to hold the class A in place on the roof. If yes, these brackets sit on the roof and are hidden by the adjustable roof flashing. You'll still need a ceiling support box. This is where the the rest of the weight of the class A is supported. It supports the class A chimney in collar that extends at least 6"? inches into the living space in order to maintain clearance to combustibles. Study the diagrams in the links posted to see how the system goes together for your pipe.

If you can't get the camera linked, then study these parts and let us know what Metalbestos parts you have and are referring to. For example, it sounds like you have a 6T-RSP as the bracketed support pipe, is this correct or am I way off? Here is a sales site that should have your parts listed:
(broken link removed)

 

[kevinmoelk]

Any possibility of getting a cable for your camera asap? It's hard to help without seeing the pieces and setup. But from the description, the bracket sounds like adjustable roof brackets to hold the class A in place on the roof. If yes, these brackets sit on the roof and are hidden by the adjustable roof flashing. You'll still need a ceiling support box. This is where the the rest of the weight of the class A is supported. It supports the class A chimney in collar that extends at least 6"? inches into the living space in order to maintain clearance to combustibles. Study the diagrams in the links posted to see how the system goes together for your pipe.

If you can't get the camera linked, then study these parts and let us know what Metalbestos parts you have and are referring to. For example, it sounds like you have a 6T-RSP as the bracketed support pipe, is this correct or am I way off? Here is a sales site that should have your parts listed:
(broken link removed)

Howdy BeGreen. Yes, the 6T-RSP, but the pipe the brackets are attached to is much longer, I believe 3ft.

I think the previous set up must have used this to support from the ceiling because there is a portion of the chimney that is painted and matches the double wall pipe that comes from the stove. The bracket sits just above the painted portion. So this would be indicative of an improper installation. In other words, I think they used the roof kit flipped upside down and held up the chimney from the ceiling joists.

Sorry about the camera. I realize the absence of photos makes helping me difficult. Hopefully tomorrow.

Okay, so I'm clearly missing the ceiling support box. The only other piece I have is what I would call a beauty ring or trim ring. It's just a flat donut made of sheet metal uncapable of holding any weight. Maybe part of the ceiling support box? Humm. I see there is a ceiling support box with a built in attic insulation guard. Maybe that's the one to get.

This sucks, now I feel a little cheated not having everything I need, but I guess that's just part of being a novice.

-Kevin

 

[Roospike]

Again , I dont have an issue with the building of the attic insulation shield , i did it with cement board and its turned out great.

#1 If you get no ceiling boot you'll be back here asking how to connect black stove pipe to double wall stainless steel class A . To make the change from black pipe being double wall or single wall and to change from that to your stainless steel pipe is where the ceiling support boot come in.
The ceiling support has a male end that hooks to your black pipe and the top of the ceiling boot has the lock connectors for the class A SS pipe.

Just wanting you to be safe brother , you'll be saving money burning wood year after year for a lot of years to come , if its an extra $20. or $40. to make sure its done right then now is the time to do so.

Research , questions and planing is a good thing , were on the same boat with ya.

 

[Roospike]

wrenchmonster , we posted at the same time.

Is this the supports your are talking about as pictured ?

(Roof support kit for chimney at 4' high and over )

 

[kevinmoelk]

Roospike, nope not the one. It's the support BeGreen mentioned.

I'm not opposed to spending 100, 300, or 500 bucks to get it right. I see the stove as an investment that will pay for itself in fuel savings eventually. So yes, absolutely want to do things right. If I didn't I wouldn't have spent the money I've already spent. And I still need to spend a few hundred building a hearth I'm sure.

Ah, this would be much easier with pictures. I'll try and list what I have here.

1- Roof flashing (6T-AF12)
3- Pieces of 36" insulated pipe (6UT-36)
1- Roof support package (6T-RSP)
1- Chimney cap (6T-CT)
1- Clamp (6T-LB?) used to hold chimney cap


Then I also have a couple sections of double walled stove pipe. Looks pretty nice actually. One piece looks adjustable and the seams look to be welded it's about 4 feet long. Then another piece 2 feet long. There are also 2 elbows for the stove pipe.

That's it for the chimney and pipe.

-Kevin

Edit: Oh yeah, and 1 storm collar.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Okay, well after some review it seems like I'm going to need a couple things. I'll need a ceiling support box (either with or without the attic insulation guard, why buy them separately when there is a one piece available?)

Looks like I'll need a new flashing piece since the one I have is for 6/12 to 12/12 and I believe my roof pitch is 4/12. Or can this flashing be modifed? It looks as though I could just drill those rivets out and re-cut the pitch on the bottom of the piece that goes around the chimney. Re-install, new pop rivets and new silicone.

I'll re-use the roof kit on the roof, as intended.

However, what do I do about the holes left behind where the bracket previously lived on the chimney? Do I just use some hi-temp silicone to cover up the holes? Or is there another, better way to deal with those holes?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Thanks for your patience guys. I'll really try and get some pictures up tomorrow.

-Kevin

 

[begreen]

I think you have it figured out now. It does sound like the previous install of this pipe was a little creative and not proper. Maybe that's why he didn't use the stove that much. I wouldn't feel good about it. I wonder how he connected the double wall to the class A? For the extra holes in the pipe, you can use a short, ss screw to block the hole. Silicone each screw in, no need for high-temp up there, it's external. I'm not sure about adapting the flashing, but if you do it carefully it might work.