Honeywell Smart Valve Pilot?

[stmar]

Sorry for the duplication but my other thread got kind of long so didn't know if too many people would read.
Honeywell Smart Valve LP furnace with spark igniter. Igniter glows but pilot does not light. I blew on the pilot and it lit, main gas valve opens and furnace functions as it should. Tried several times and pilot would not light until I blew on it and didn't blow very hard. What would cause this and what is the fix?

 

[fbelec]

does the pilot look a little weak? it might be and i've seen this more than a couple of times, the pilot might need to be turned up. if there is no screw on the gas valve your kind of stuck replacing the gas valve. if the mount looks slightly warped that could be it. the screw would be located under a screw cap

 

[heat seeker]

Is there a shield missing, that guides the gas towards the pilot?

Any "extra" parts lying on the bottom...

Is there a draft in the area that could be wafting the gas away from the pilot? A cover missing/off/loose allowing a draft in there?

 

[stmar]

I talked to the service tech and he said to try adjusting the pilot so he would not have to come out and charge another service call. He said the igniter/sensor/pilot assembly was intact and he cleaned and tightened what he could. Has anyone adjusted a pilot on the Honeywell Smart Valve? He said to turn the adjustment screw a full turn. Does that sound right?
Here is the gas valve:
Heil Furnace Gas Valve 1009093 HQ1009093HW

 

[fbelec]

see the screw head on the left of where the gas pipe screws in right in the indent flat screw. under that should be another screw that will adjust the pilot. you'll have to be quick. the picture for me is not as clear as it could be so that might be the main gas adjustment if so remember where the screw inside was before you touched it so you can turn it back. if it were clearer i'd say maybe the white plastic one to the left front of the big screw head. keep in mind that you should put some money aside for a new one. when this problem happens your not far from needing a new one.

 

[stmar]

I found it and tried to do the adjustment but the attic was below zero and truthfully I don't know if I got it done correctly, could not see a difference in the pilot but will give it another try tonight. I am afraid the valve may be going and from what I have learned these things are not that maintenance friendly.

 

[fbelec]

i swear they build em to go early. my boiler didn't get much use early in it's career but the gas valve went bad. it would not light the boiler because it took 1 second longer than the computer would give it. long story short the gas valve was sluggish because there was this thick brown oil in it which i thought was cutting oil from the install. my plumber is a good friend of mine and there was no oil anywhere else in the piping just in the gas valve. so i washed it out with rubbing alcohol and it light within a second. been running now for more than 6 years now. i think the valve came that way.

 

[stmar]

Adjusting the pilot had no positive effect so have to call service tech again. It seems like the pilot orifice is restricted, he cleaned and checked last time he was here but I imagine there could be some deterioration or sediment that is the culprit. I am going to have him check the pilot pressure, definitely something wrong.

 

[stmar]

Changed out the orifice and it works, he cycled it multiple times and he showed me the pilot flame and it was larger than when I got it lit by blowing on it. Evidently there must have been some restriction in the old orifice. If we continue to have an issue I guess the gas valve is the next step but hope that is not the case. He said the Smart valves have complicated functions inside.

 

[stmar]

This is getting beyond frustrating As I said he changed the orifice and it worked perfectly while he was here. I left for a while and when I came back turned the stat up and it would not lite, tried several times. Looks like a new gas valve in my future, don't know what else it could be.

 

[fbelec]

did the tech check your incoming pressure to the valve and the manual for the furnace should tell you the acceptable pressure for it to run. last year we had to turn up the regulator because there wasn't enough pressure to run the boiler never mind kicking on the dryer.

 

[stmar]

He said with this valve you could not check the pressure of the pilot but the incoming main line had the correct pressure. What gets me is that when he is here it works but when he leaves and I try to cycle the unit it craps out, no pilot. I guess this valve has some issues with the internal circuits and he said there could be weak/cracked solder joints that would give intermittent problems. I posted about the system taking a long time to light once the stat called for heat and he said it should not take that long. New gas valve is on the way, should have it installed early next week. This guy has almost 40 years experience so has seen a lot of issues and he is with a reputable company, in our area news travels fast and you would know if they were incompetent.

 

[stmar]

We have a cook stove/oven and a gas dryer and neither of them are malfunctioning so that leads me to believe that it is not a regulator issue. The more I research these smart valves the more things I see could go wrong with them. I even saw one guy on YouTube that takes them apart, you need special tools, and resolders the circuits. Way over my head so best to just replace and see if that works.

 

[fbelec]

i guess it's a smart valve for honeywell more sales

 

[stmar]

Tech changed out the valve and I had him go ahead and change the igniter. He started it 8 times in a row and it lit right up. After it shut down for a while I turned up the stat, it calls for heat and no ignition. I was here by myself so left it on and crawled into where the furnace is took off the door and it starts right up. I thought maybe my heavy breathing had some effect so I shut it down started it up and it lit right up. That is why it lit when he was here, the door was always off. I asked him if that could be the cause and he said no. Have a call into him and he should get back to me in the morning. Wonder what he will say?? Anybody ever had anything like this happen?
P.S. Forgot to ask, is it safe to run the furnace with out the door covering the valve and burners?

 

[stmar]

Like I said the pilot would not light with the door all the way on. Tried door in different stages of open. It lights with the door about an inch gap, see pic. Weird or explainable?

 

[fbelec]

which door is that? the door for the burner? does the furnace have a inducer fan? or is it the door for the main blower fan?

 

[stmar]

It is the door for the burner/valve compartment, the one on the left in the pic. As you can see it is louvered so not solid contained. I had to increase the gap to about 2" to get it to light consistently and it worked this morning, took 2 or 3 cycles but it lit.

 

[stmar]

The metal cap is the furnace exhaust vent. Is that what you are talking about? It is about 15 feet to the furnace so how would you go about cleaning it? I have chimney brushes that may get me there. Is there anything in those to be careful with?

 

[fbelec]

if the tube that goes up to the spot where there should be a pilot is not semi blocked with a spider you have nothing to lose by make a tube or a defector to get the gas over to the spark plug. if you don't see a spark then that could be it. can you snap a pic of the pilot assembly? maybe a video? that would be great.

 

[Wooden Head]

Just a shot in the Dark. I don't claim to understand your valve, but I can give you experience that I had with my propane furnace.
A few years back in the middle of winter, my furnace would not fire. Had a repair person come out to look at it. Here is what they found. The air intake that supplies oxygen for ignition has an open wire mesh at the outside intake pipe. This is there to keep critters from making a home in the intake pipe. It had partially closed because of fine snow blocking the intake of air. Once brushed off the furnace ran fine. I now check it a few times a season. I know that snow may not be your problem, but is something blocking the intake air?

 

[stmar]

Thanks for all the input. The pilot gas tube is clear and we have tried several different orifices. This is about a 20 year old furnace and it does not have an "air intake" pipe, it takes oxygen from the room through the louvered access panel. Since the furnace runs once the pilot lights the exhaust pipe should not be the issue. Since leaving a 2" gap in the access panel the furnace is firing although the first cycle takes a few minutes. The tech was on the phone with a factory engineer and he too was perplexed. On the line of thought as feblec they decided to try a new pilot assembly on the chance that the existing unit has a flaw, like the hood is not directing the gas to the striker. So far there has been a new valve, new igniter and 3 trips. Should have a new furnace by the time it is done.

 

[fbelec]

i feel for ya stmar. i only had this happen to me 2 times and made a few changes, as bend the bracket spin the sparkplug what ever it takes to get some heat for my customer. on really bad problems like this tech support is no help. but there have been times when i had to call tech support and talk to 3 different people and got it going that way. sometimes tech support guys are only read what's on the screen and no experience. then you get that guy that says he told you what? one more question if you don't mind does your main blower fan come on with the call for heat or does it come on after the heat exchanger hits a warm temp?

 

[stmar]

One fan comes on immediately with call for heat. After the main burners come on another blower comes on to circulate the warm air.
It still seems to be working with that 2" gap in the access panel which does not make sense because that panel has openings so what is the difference.

 

[fbelec]

my next spot to check would be the heat exchanger. at this age there could be a hole.