How can I use single wall pipe from first story to ceiling in 2nd story???

[Gemaffair Mike]

Hello,

I bought a 2 Story house and it is located in Alaska where wood is plentiful and a warm dry fire is welcome about 10 months a year.

The house is a basic rectangle with a stairway about 2/3 of the way along the long side of the house, but in the center. The current Soapstone Wood stove is located near the stairway (about 7 feet) on the first floor. The master bedroom is on the 2nd floor in the larger section behind the stairway and fireplace.

All in all, the house stays pretty warm with only a 6-8 degree temp difference from downstairs to upstairs. The master bedroom and bathroom suffering the biggest gap.

Currently, the stove vents out the exterior wall on the first floor and up along the outside of the house.

I want to change that and vent the stove directly up over the stove AND move the stove 2 feet closer to the stairway. I want to build a wall close to the stove using metal studs and durarock and a stone veneer. I will also build a 2x6 wall with a 1 inch vent that is 5 feet wide behind the stove with a 3 inch gap at the bottom and the top. This will allow me to get the stove within 10 inches of the wall as it is a Non-Combustable wall AND it is vented. Either one would qualify, but I will do both.

What I need help with is this. The stove pipe is where a significant amount of radiant heat is sent up the chimney and out of the house. I wish to try and eliminate or mitigate the temp differential from the downstairs and the master bedroom area. Happy wife, Happy life!

I WANT to run single wall pipe from the stove, through the ceiling and have it exposed in the master bedroom so it can radiate some heat into the master. Where the pipe passes through the floor I obviously need to remove the plywood flooring and drywall which exposes just the floor joists. IS there a way to build a shield in this area to meet the safety standards and retain single wall pipe through the joist area?

Once above the 1st floor Ceiling/2nd floor floor, I wish to have a u shaped "alcove" approximately 24"x24" that is framed in metal studs and covered in durarock and then tile making it NON COMBUSTABLE wall also. On the opposite of side of the alcove I would use durarock over the metal studs and then fire rated drywall. I wish for the durarock and tile to act as a reflective heat sink.

I would cover this U shaped alcove in a metal grate to keep small hands and fingers etc from being able to touch the pipe but still allow plenty of heat to radiate from the space into the Master Bedroom.

Once I reach the 2nd floor ceiling, I will be happy to use Class A pipe up through the roof etc.

This is in Alaska. ZERO local building codes. IBC and the NFC are the only codes that I need to worry about in case of possible future sale with inspection and financing by a bank. I don't need a permit or an inspection to do the work or live with the work.

Has anyone done anything like this? Or have a suggestion on how to pass through the floor joists and meet IBC and NFC code in order to retain single wall pipe on 2nd floor?

My reason is that single wall pipe radiates a lot more heat than the double wall etc. I hate sending all that heat out of the chimney when heat is such a premium in Alaska.

My next question is, how much heat will be radiated from the double wall pipe if I have use that? Any? Would this even be worth all this trouble if I am forced to use double wall pipe?

Love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[bholler]

Hello,

I bought a 2 Story house and it is located in Alaska where wood is plentiful and a warm dry fire is welcome about 10 months a year.

The house is a basic rectangle with a stairway about 2/3 of the way along the long side of the house, but in the center. The current Soapstone Wood stove is located near the stairway (about 7 feet) on the first floor. The master bedroom is on the 2nd floor in the larger section behind the stairway and fireplace.

All in all, the house stays pretty warm with only a 6-8 degree temp difference from downstairs to upstairs. The master bedroom and bathroom suffering the biggest gap.

Currently, the stove vents out the exterior wall on the first floor and up along the outside of the house.

I want to change that and vent the stove directly up over the stove AND move the stove 2 feet closer to the stairway. I want to build a wall close to the stove using metal studs and durarock and a stone veneer. I will also build a 2x6 wall with a 1 inch vent that is 5 feet wide behind the stove with a 3 inch gap at the bottom and the top. This will allow me to get the stove within 10 inches of the wall as it is a Non-Combustable wall AND it is vented. Either one would qualify, but I will do both.

What I need help with is this. The stove pipe is where a significant amount of radiant heat is sent up the chimney and out of the house. I wish to try and eliminate or mitigate the temp differential from the downstairs and the master bedroom area. Happy wife, Happy life!

I WANT to run single wall pipe from the stove, through the ceiling and have it exposed in the master bedroom so it can radiate some heat into the master. Where the pipe passes through the floor I obviously need to remove the plywood flooring and drywall which exposes just the floor joists. IS there a way to build a shield in this area to meet the safety standards and retain single wall pipe through the joist area?

Once above the 1st floor Ceiling/2nd floor floor, I wish to have a u shaped "alcove" approximately 24"x24" that is framed in metal studs and covered in durarock and then tile making it NON COMBUSTABLE wall also. On the opposite of side of the alcove I would use durarock over the metal studs and then fire rated drywall. I wish for the durarock and tile to act as a reflective heat sink.

I would cover this U shaped alcove in a metal grate to keep small hands and fingers etc from being able to touch the pipe but still allow plenty of heat to radiate from the space into the Master Bedroom.

Once I reach the 2nd floor ceiling, I will be happy to use Class A pipe up through the roof etc.

This is in Alaska. ZERO local building codes. IBC and the NFC are the only codes that I need to worry about in case of possible future sale with inspection and financing by a bank. I don't need a permit or an inspection to do the work or live with the work.

Has anyone done anything like this? Or have a suggestion on how to pass through the floor joists and meet IBC and NFC code in order to retain single wall pipe on 2nd floor?

My reason is that single wall pipe radiates a lot more heat than the double wall etc. I hate sending all that heat out of the chimney when heat is such a premium in Alaska.

My next question is, how much heat will be radiated from the double wall pipe if I have use that? Any? Would this even be worth all this trouble if I am forced to use double wall pipe?

Love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

You can't do it you need to switch to chimney once you hit the ceiling. You need to follow irc and nfpa211. And even if you didn't have to follow code you still don't want to burn your house down

 

[Woody Stover]

What stove do you have?

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

What stove do you have?

I have a hearthstone heritage with soapstone. Seems to have good reviews.

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

What stove do you have?

You can't do it you need to switch to chimney once you hit the ceiling. You need to follow irc and nfpa211. And even if you didn't have to follow code you still don't want to burn your house down

Why do you say I can't do it? There has to be a way to meet those codes and still keep single wall pipe.

Here is what NFPA says...
The NFPA calls for an 18" clearance to combustible walls for single wall stove pipe.

Do I need to make a 48"by 48" hole in the floor to give enough clearance?
Can I build a metal shield or vented system to reduce the 18".
Can I buy a joist / ceiling adapter that is insulated and protects the "combustible" floor pieces?
Can I use double wall pipe as it passes through the floor section and then return to single wall pipe?

 

[bholler]

Why do you say I can't do it? There has to be a way to meet those codes and still keep single wall pipe.

Here is what NFPA says...
The NFPA calls for an 18" clearance to combustible walls for single wall stove pipe.

Do I need to make a 48"by 48" hole in the floor to give enough clearance?
Can I build a metal shield or vented system to reduce the 18".
Can I buy a joist / ceiling adapter that is insulated and protects the "combustible" floor pieces?
Can I use double wall pipe as it passes through the floor section and then return to single wall pipe?

No you need to switch to chimney pipe once you hit a wall or ceiling. Connector pipe cannot pass through a floor or be in a confined space so you can't put it in a ventilated chase either

 

[vwmike]

I think your over estimating the amount of heat sent up the flue with a modern tube stove. Run single wall from the stove to 1st floor ceiling and call it good.

 

[shawnr70]

I think your over estimating the amount of heat sent up the flue with a modern tube stove. Run single wall from the stove to 1st floor ceiling and call it good.

Exactly! He'll be creating himself a number of extra problems for no real benefit

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[kborndale]

Why not just put another stove on the second floor? Best case scenario the stove pipe is not going put that much heat to the 2nd floor. Worst case scenario is it puts way to much heat up there as the house burns down.

 

[Woody Stover]

I think your over estimating the amount of heat sent up the flue with a modern tube stove.

Right; You can hold your hand on single-wall, not too far above the stove.
Are there other rooms upstairs that you need to heat? Where is the master bedroom in relation to the top of the stairs..far away at the other end (a sketch would help here.) How is the insulation and air-sealing in the house, particularly upstairs?

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

I think your over estimating the amount of heat sent up the flue with a modern tube stove. Run single wall from the stove to 1st floor ceiling and call it good.

How can I be overestimating the value of the heat? The Chimney temps surely are in excess of 200'. The air upstairs is 64ish. I want to raise it to 70'ish. By exposing single wall pipe it will ADD warmth at just the right location with ZERO additional effort other than the initial build.

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

Why not just put another stove on the second floor? Best case scenario the stove pipe is not going put that much heat to the 2nd floor. Worst case scenario is it puts way to much heat up there as the house burns down.

Stove costs $3000. Chimney $1500.
Another hole in my roof.
Another stove to feed and clean.

All that just to add a few degrees?

Besides, I can send the heat out the chimney (total waste) or I can try and capture it in the right location.

Buying another stove and spending $5000 is also a total waste.

 

[kborndale]

Stove costs $3000. Chimney $1500.
Another hole in my roof.
Another stove to feed and clean.

All that just to add a few degrees?

Besides, I can send the heat out the chimney (total waste) or I can try and capture it in the right location.

Buying another stove and spending $5000 is also a total waste.

Burning your house down seems like an even bigger waste of money!

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

Right; You can hold your hand on single-wall, not too far above the stove.
Are there other rooms upstairs that you need to heat? Where is the master bedroom in relation to the top of the stairs..far away at the other end (a sketch would help here.) How is the insulation and air-sealing in the house, particularly upstairs?

House has R30 in the attic. Walls and windows are R17 I think. 2x6 walls. House could be sealed up some, but is pretty good now. Has all double pain windows. There is a lot of South and West facing windows as there is a stellar view. No curtains on these.

Master bedroom door is 12 feet from stairwell opening.

See attached floorplan. The round dot circled in red is where the single wall pipe would enter the master bedroom floor and go to the ceiling, attic and roof. It would be straight above the wood stove.

Remember, this heat is already generating and venting out of the chimney. I just want to capture a bit of it - not a lot and retain it in the Master as that would make my wife super happy to have the master as warm as the downstairs - or warmer.

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

If I use the double wall from down below, can I use a stack robber when it gets to the master and vent the stack robber into the master?

 

[kennyp2339]

heat with the stove not the stove pipe

 

[Woody Stover]

So the master is at the top of the stairs, above the left end of the drawing? Or above the right end, down a hall? More occupied bedrooms up there that need heat, or what? As you are walking up the stairs, is the left side open, with just a railing, or is there a solid wall all the way up? Have you got another sketch of the second floor or if not, can you draw over this one?
I'm trying to see a way that you can facilitate movement of more heat to where you need it. This might be able to be done very cheaply and easily...

 

[maple1]

House has R30 in the attic. Walls and windows are R17 I think. 2x6 walls. House could be sealed up some, but is pretty good now. Has all double pain windows. There is a lot of South and West facing windows as there is a stellar view. No curtains on these.

Master bedroom door is 12 feet from stairwell opening.

See attached floorplan. The round dot circled in red is where the single wall pipe would enter the master bedroom floor and go to the ceiling, attic and roof. It would be straight above the wood stove.

Remember, this heat is already generating and venting out of the chimney. I just want to capture a bit of it - not a lot and retain it in the Master as that would make my wife super happy to have the master as warm as the downstairs - or warmer.

But what you are proposing is against codes & pipe install instructions.

You would be completely out of luck with an insurance claim if it were ever to come to that.

 

[sprawlnstall]

If possible and up to code why not put some vents in your ceiling so air can rise upstairs. I don't see the stove pipe producing a lot of heat. I may not fully understand your house diagram but would it be possible to move your stove closer to your upstairs so heat can make it upstairs easier?

 

[HomeinPA]

What's the point of doing this?? Do you like the look of black stovepipe or do you want heat upstairs?

Keep it simple - cut a vent in the ceiling/floor and but a register cover over it and let the heat from the stove upstairs. Go whole hog and put a little 4" fan inside to pull the air up. You don't use the stovepipe.

You may also want to be a little more informed on your state requirements - "Many people across Alaska do not think that we have building codes. People building outside of city limits, or in cities that do not have a building department do not realize that there are building codes that will apply to all homes built after July 1, 1992." You can find the correct information here: (broken link removed to http://www.wisdomandassociates.com/inspections_ratings/code_inspections/what.html)

 

[moresnow]

If I use the double wall from down below, can I use a stack robber when it gets to the master and vent the stack robber into the master?

If you speaking of the Magic Heat setup you should slow down and do some research. A terrible appliance to say the least. Creosote production is what its well known for. And its the truth. PM me your email. I'll send a few pics of one I removed earlier this winter. If those pics wont change your mind nobody can help you! You wont have to research long to get a good idea. Not to pile on you so to speak but.... Single wall is also a bad idea as mentioned. Single wall would be tough to keep hot enough to prevent buildup that you don't want. Not trying to be offensive. Just honest. Good luck.

 

[bholler]

If I use the double wall from down below, can I use a stack robber when it gets to the master and vent the stack robber into the master?

No you can't

 

[Woody Stover]

The Chimney temps surely are in excess of 200

Yes, but the outside of the pipe isn't nearly as warm. You would do much better improving the air-sealing upstairs, both to the exterior and from the living space into the attic (access opening, ceiling lights etc.)

If I use the double wall from down below, can I use a stack robber when it gets to the master and vent the stack robber into the master?

Stack robber creates more problems; It lowers stack temp and allows more creosote to deposit in the chimney. You want the flue gasses in excess of 200, all the way to the top. That's another reason that insulated double-wall chimney above the first floor is desirable.

If possible and up to code why not put some vents in your ceiling so air can rise upstairs.

That's another possibility I was thinking of. If so, I would put a fuseable link that would close the vent in case of fire.

Our house needs more weatherization. It's on one level, and most of the time we keep the bedroom door open only about 6" to concentrate heat in the living area. The temp difference is about what you are describing, 7-10*. We have a couple of fleece blankets and a down comforter on the bed. The bedroom is low 60s, or even 60 degrees if it's cold and windy, and we have to be careful that we don't get too warm, once we are under the covers generating heat. Happy wife.

 

[Sawset]

"I wish for the durarock and tile to act as a reflective heat sink. "
Most who have tried on a small scale have failed. You need a massive amount of reservoir to store and emit heat in any quantity. Think boiler guys using 1000gallon heat storage tanks, or passive solar using basements full of rock. A small area of tile and Durock will hold little heat.

 

[Gemaffair Mike]

So the master is at the top of the stairs, above the left end of the drawing? Or above the right end, down a hall? More occupied bedrooms up there that need heat, or what? As you are walking up the stairs, is the left side open, with just a railing, or is there a solid wall all the way up? Have you got another sketch of the second floor or if not, can you draw over this one?
I'm trying to see a way that you can facilitate movement of more heat to where you need it. This might be able to be done very cheaply and easily...

Here is an updated sketch labeling the stairway direction of travel and the master bedroom. Also including a pic of the stairwell area so you can see the wall configuration at the top of the stairs.