how do you convice someone to buy a wood insert

[conibear]

dumb brother still likes his open fireplace
had a wood splitting session
looked at it all piled up

that's 2 years worth for me
not enough for him
just a vent

 

[dougand3]

Explain that open FP is probably making his house COOLER - as fire dies down, warm house air goes up the chimney. He probably has a HIGHER heating bill and it's COSTING HIM MONEY!
May work...may not.

 

[Wood Duck]

I'd mention how much wood you burn (a lot less than he does), how much money you save, and how warm the house stays. If you're going to try to convince him that a fireplace actually has negative efficiency get some data. When you burn a fireplace the house definitely gets hotter, right? So how could it be negatively efficient?

 

[Armoured]

Having just put one in, well, wood usage/heat is pretty obvious. But the other things I like are maybe just as important:

-Safety - it it's all shut up, you can leave the room and not worry about a fire/coals/embers popping out. I never feel as comfortable about an open fire in the same way, especially leaving the house.
-This actually adds to comfort because you don't "plan" in advance for the fire going out - you build it to keep comfortable and keep the door shut.
-Less smoke smell and dust. (Not zero, but less). This is a health issue too for many.

 

[bogydave]

Welcome conibear.
You a trapper?

Explained the $$$ & fire wood saved thing already I bet..

Then when not in use, it's costing money to heat the cold air that leaks from a fireplace.
Then explain it takes some learning & experience to burn an insert properly & few ever learn it properly.
Explain how It takes a smart wood savvy person who understand what seasoned fire wood is, how to season it well, know when it's ready to burn in a new modern stove.
Then explain the saved $$ can be used to buy a new saw, wood splitter, trailer ect ect.... :zip:
Explain the tax "energy" credits available for buying some of the new EPA rated inserts, may pay Uncle Sam less taxes. Another money savings thing

If nothing works laugh. He does 3 times as much work for next to no return in heat. He'll stay in good shape cutting wood

 

[dafattkidd]

dumb brother still likes his open fireplace
had a wood splitting session
looked at it all piled up

that's 2 years worth for me
not enough for him
just a vent

What are you burning? Do you have an insert? If you do bring him over for a couple of beers on a cold night. He'll see the difference right away. Or maybe he likes his open fireplace, so help him find a spot in his house for a stand alone wood stove. He can burn wood for actual heat and have an open fire every once in a while for fun.

For me people always think I'm nuts until they come in my house on a cold day. Then, they realize the power of wood heat. Then again. Some people just like to do what they have been doing, so as hard as it is for us to understand, sometimes what we think is the best, most rational, reasonable answer, isn't the right answer to others. That's my two cents.

You can always show him your heating bills, too. Good luck with it.

 

[maverick06]

dont try to cinvince him. Show him what you have and how well it works, including how long between reloads.

he might like the snap crackle pop of the fireplace.... or who knows. If he isnt interested, he will be disappointed with the wood stove and end up not using it/regretting the purschase.

You dont wnat him upset at you because you talked him into something he doesnt like... and similiarly, you dont want him to be upset at you because all you do is talk about your wood stove and why he should get one.

mention the benefits and how much it costs you to heat your house. Let the facts speak for themselves.

 

[eclecticcottage]

What is it in particular about the open fireplace he prefers?

It's not optimal, but most stoves I've seen have a spark screen available (so I would imagine they are available for inserts as well), so if it's the popping sounds and such of an open fireplace he likes, he could open it and use the spark screen when he's looking for that and close it when he wants it to really heat the place/not suck warm air out. Maybe it's asthetics, he might also need to see an insert he likes the looks of. Show him some of the pics here, maybe he'll see something he likes.

 

[robertmcw]

Before I got my insert, I would use a wheelbarrow full of wood and build the fire in my firepalce and use all it in about 4 – 5 hours. I still needed to use the propane to keep the place warm. Now I can use same amount of wood A DAY, in a 24 hours time frame, and on the not too cold days, that wheelbarrow full can last a day and a half or better and I don’t use much propane (for the hot water, the oven and on the shoulder months). I have found if I add one or two splits every three or four hours, the place keeps in the 75 - 78 degree mark pretty constant. I have a 1200 sq ft home with a lot of single glass windows.

I save from $1,200.00 - $1,500.00 a year using my insert and I cut my own wood and I have used tools and a used insert from CL, and I have about $2,500.00 total for the stuff I need (the insert the log splitter) but that does not count the truck, my saw or the ax and the oil, etc. This year the costs will break even and next year I will save the $1,200.00 - $1,500.00 in my IRA or my savings or may give to my wife, but the point I am saving a lot every year. My time is cheep because I am retired and I need to save any penny I can and at my age (I am 61) I need to work out when I can so I don't mold or rust. But on the other hand, if he thinks his money is worth more than his time, that is a hard sell.

Do the math. Sorry for going this on and on and on and .........................

Robert

 

[jeff_t]

Nobody that I know would even consider heating with wood. Way too much work, don't have time, too messy. They would rather set their thermostats at 65° and b!tch about the gas bill. Then they come over here and talk about how warm it is.

My sister has a Quad pellet stove in their basement. The basement is supposed to be finished someday, but likely never will be. I try to talk them into moving it upstairs. Their house is tight and well insulated, and the pellet stove should easily heat the living space. She's all for it, but my BIL says no.

 

[logger]

You can take a copy of my propane bill to him... $15 for the entire winter last year and thats only cuz I burn the propane fireplace on the porch once in a while.

 

[customfireplacesupply]

It is all about efficiency.

Open wood burning fireplaces rarely if ever list an efficiency rating. This is because they are horribly inefficient. You are lucky to get 15% efficiency out of one, with most being below 10% efficient.

How does this translate? For every log you burn in an open fireplace, 85-90% of the heat being produced by that log is lost up the flue. Only 10-15% of the heat enters the home.

Not only is the heat being lost, but you are not getting a clean burn with an open fireplace. The amount of pollutants created by an open wood fireplace is extremely high. They are not EPA rated and many areas in the country do not allow them anymore.

Compare that to a modern sealed wood insert, fireplace or stove. With an EPA rated fireplace you get 70-85% efficiency out of most models. For every log burned, 70-85% of the heat produced enters the home.

Not only do you get more heat but you use less fuel and produce a fraction of the emissions.

EPA wood fireplaces will use two different approaches. The will either use reburn tubes or a catalytic converter.

Reburn tubes recirculate the emissions coming off the logs (primary burn). This allows the unit to burn off the unused gas being produced by the logs, also known as secondary burn.

Catalytic converters work much like those on an automobile. An element is placed between the fire and the flue. As the element heats up it burns off the unused gases.

Both of these approaches work well. They produce great heat and low emissions. Reburn units produce a more visually appealing flame, while catalytic units often put out more heat.

If you looked at the exhaust being produced you see a huge difference. An open wood burner will have smoke coming out of the chimney cap, on an EPA rated unit you will see no smoke when it is up to operating temp.

Most people shudder at the thought of anything EPA related. But when it comes to wood burning fireplaces it really is a step forward.

Hope this helps.

 

[jeff_t]

I kinda believe open fireplaces are in the negative when it comes to efficiency.

 

[fredarm]

All I know is that when I used to burn my open fireplace, either the upstairs heating zone would run continuously, or if I shut off the zone, the upstairs would be very cold. It would be warm right in front of the FP but that's about it. I'm not sure about the physics involved, but I think the FP was pulling in cold air from upstairs somehow. Now with the insert, the living room is nice and warm, and while not much heat finds its way upstairs (it's a small insert), the upstairs heat zone seems to operate normally.

 

[mfglickman]

I just worked through this with my husband. He loves the fireplace. But finally he had to admit that unless you sit right in front of it, it gives off no heat. Cue wife to find used Fireview on CL - look at that pretty window - and we are in business.

Has he been in your house with your stove going? Does he heat with oil?

 

[oldspark]

I kinda believe open fireplaces are in the negative when it comes to efficiency.

Yep especially when it gets colder, sucks heat out of the house, not sure why any sane person would use one when it gets cold.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum conibear. Nice screen name.


Remember, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. That principle also applies to wood burning.

 

[firefighterjake]

1. Invite brother over on a holiday where he will be at the house for most of the day (i.e. Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.)
2. Start fire in woodstove.
3. Make sure brother notes the beauty of the woodstove and great view of the fire.
4. During the course of the day make brother aware of how little wood you have used in reloading the stove.
5. Keep fire going until brother is ready to strip down to his undies because the woodstove is cranking out so much heat.
6. Send brother back home to his cold home and let him burn through a quarter cord of wood that night while still wearing three layers of clothing.