How does creosote remover work?

[ControlFreak]

Rutland creosote remover, and other products:

I have seen these products and used them mostly because they make the fire look colorful. But how does this stuff remove creosote?

Does anybody have any real test data that shows what this stuff does?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[dj2cohen]

I have used it myself just recently (within the last two weeks). I had a creosote glaze on the inside of my clay liner about 1/16" thick. Hard as glass too.

I put in one of the logs as per the instructions and let the stove go cold. I then went to the roof with the brushes to see if it did any good, not expecting to find much.

Boy was I surprised! What I found was that the creosote had gone from "glass" to, the best way I can describe it, is what looked like paper ash sitting inside the liner, looking very wispy.

Just a few brush strokes later and the liner was very clean with only typical black residue left.

From what I understand, the active ingredients in the log and powders, chemically change the structure of the creosote from a tar like substance to an ash like substance that can just be swept out.

I do not have any laboratory testing data and I do not own stock in any of the companies, so I have no reason to try and pitch the product to any one. I just know that this time, it worked for me. It may not the next time. All I can do is try it again and see.

 

[dj2cohen]

I didn't think about it at the time, hindsight is always perfect you know, but I should have snapped before and after pics. I didn't think about it at the time because I was not thinking about testing the product, I was just trying to remove a creosote glaze in my flue for safety.

I try and do better next time. :down:

 

[begreen]

It's been a while but I vaguely remembered something about looking at the safety sheets for Rutland creosote cleaner and finding TSP as a common ingredient. It’s used together with manganese acetate. Testing has shown this to be an effective combo as opposed to chloride based cleaners, which are not that effective and corrosive. Cre-away is another recommended cleaner.

The reason they work? So far I am finding more theories than lab tests. Maybe Corie has more specific testing info? Here's an example of what I found:

"It is believed that the compound of the subject invention dehydrates the creosote enabling it to simply flake apart. This was demonstrated during a controlled experiment where a measured amount of creosote was allowed to build up on a piece of test sample. The compound was then applied and the results recorded. It was found that, within a twenty-four hour period, more than forty percent of the creosote flaked away from the test sample. It was discovered, however, that most of the dehydrating--more than fifty percent thereof--occurred during the first few hours of the experiment.

The dehydrating process occurs, it is further believed, as the compound attaches itself to the active cites of the benzene ring, of which, the creosote is comprised. These active cites bond adjacent benzene rings to each other. When the compound attaches itself to these sites, the bond is broken and the creosote is free to flake apart."
(broken link removed to http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4888030-description.html)

 

[argus66]

i bought some of this stuff what happens to the flakes? my pipe when it enters the room has a slight elbow will all the flakes get stuck there? or do they go out to the air? thanks

 

[burntime]

It lightens your wallet a few bucks and when you realize it did nothing you get mad as heck, you burn less cause you are hot. Hence, less creosote!

 

[chrisman34]

When I was burning too low, this stuff was a nightmare. I believe it will actualy cause a problem not help it. When burning hotter and no powder I was getting a little creosote....burning hotter and using the maintenance amount, almost no creosote. So first use, use it, and then sweep, then maintenance amount works great! IMHO

If you use it on a dirty chimney and don't sweep, or use it when you are a creosote factory, It will at least plug the chimney, and in my opinion CAUSE a chimney fire!

 

[argus66]

so dont use it till im ready to sweep the whole chimney? right???

 

[chrisman34]

If you are unsure about the build up, or have reason to believe there will be quite a bit....then I would not use it until I knew I could sweep it in 2 or 3 days max. This product causes the creosote to flake and pull off the pipe wall...this will aether fall to the bottom giving a large fuel load, or give more surface area for more creosote to build up. I had both when I was using it improperly.

 

[argus66]

thanks, u saved from making a dangerous mistake although i was gonna use this stuff till i heard how others used it.

 

[chrisman34]

thanks, u saved from making a dangerous mistake although i was gonna use this stuff till i heard how others used it.

Well it is by no means scientific just what I observed when I used it, and for what its worth I use the Rutlands powder

 

[polaris]

I did not put much stock in it but tried it anyway. It dislodged a decent amount of creosote in the form of small to medium flakes. I then removed these from the elbow at the rear exit on the Jotul(brush/wet dry vac). I don't think I would use it in lieu of a good cleaning but For me it does work as part of a maintenance rotine. I had heard so many say it did nothing that I was pleasntly surprised to discover otherwise. ( I used the majic heat brand powder).
Joe

 

[RonB]

If you use it on a dirty chimney and don't sweep, or use it when you are a creosote factory, It will at least plug the chimney, and in my opinion CAUSE a chimney fire!

Buy a tub of it and follow the directions. It doesn't cause chimney fires. The type of creosote flaked off by the product is not as combustible as it once was (my observed opinion). The directions are informative and they still encourage regular sweeping. Practice good burning procedures and you won't have tons of creosote. I like the product and use it.

 

[dj2cohen]

I did not mean for my earlier post to sound like that the creosote remover products are a miracle cure for creosote. What I intended to say is that the removers are a good tool to use in conjunction with a good sweep.

I swept the flue first without using the remover. My brush is what I consider a good quality steel bristle brush. When I sent it down the flue, it wouldn't bring the gunk out. Like I said earlier, it was glazed on and hard as glass.

I used the log as per the instructions during the first firing. I then fired again, as per recommended on the package. The second firing, according to the package, burns more of the compounds left in the ash of the first firing.

After allowing the flue to cool back down from the second firing, I went to the roof. That is when I found the wispy, flaky creosote that very easily brushed right out allowing for a complete cleaning.

I hope this clears up my earlier post a little.

 

[bbc557ci]

From what I've read in this post, it seems the stuff "breaks down" the hard/glazed creasote, so the chimney is easier to clean. Guess old fashion elbow grease is the way to go. And only use the "remover" stuff, if needed ?

 

[dj2cohen]

bbc,

I would have partially agree.

My creosote problem this year was no one's fault but my own. My wood was not as seasoned as I thought it was. What I ended up with is an 8" x 8" liner that was filling up fast and I didn't realize it in time.

Of coarse, I swept my flue prior to the start of the season. Then about the middle of Feb. I started getting a lot of stove "burps." That is when I realized what was going on. I agree with the other guys on here and I like Rutland powder myself. I used the log because I was at a point that the powder would just simply take far too long.

I swept the flue and removed the more loose stuff before the log. On inspection, I realized that I was on the verge of a flue fire if I didn't do something fast. That is why I chose the log.

If I wouldn't have had my so far up my own a** to begin with, a little dose of powder once a week, my flue would have been fine to begin with after a proper cleaning. But too, I have burnt nothing but maple this season. It was convenient, and I solved a few problems at the same time. It was going to fall on my house, I needed winter's wood, and it had some saw logs in it too. The local mill is a one mile round trip for me. Its a shame I can't get any wood there.

I know that the tree was not a sugar maple. My best friend and wood cutting buddy, called the tree a hard maple but the mill scaled the logs as Red Maple. I am not sure which it was.

All of the above is why I say that my creosote problem was no one's fault but my own. Lesson learned. Maple and the other soft woods are fine, in my opinion, just mix them with plenty of hard wood if available.