How hot have you had your stove surface?

[Andropolis]

I'm curious to know....

1) how hot yall have stoked up your stoves.

Two more questions.

2) At what temperature do you think optimum burn takes place...

3) What is the max temperature a stove should be operated at?

Thanks for participating.

Andropolis




_______________________________________

Napoleon 1401

 

[ecfinn]

I'll play along...

1. Stovetop max temp about 775. Thermometer placed in center above front door.
2. Optimum burn for me seems to be about 450-550. If I get stove to 450, damper down, the secondary burn will take the temp up to 650 or 700 in about 10 minutes.
3. All depends upon the stove and what the manual states. Mine states anything over 800 is over-firing. I think some thicker steel stoves could be a bit higher. I think some cast ones are probably lower than 800.

Eric

 

[Rich M]

I've gotten mine up to 575, manual states overfiring occurs above 650. Sweet spot is between 450 and 525, upon damping secondary burn will raise the temp another 50 so I usually start damping around 450.

 

[snowfreak]

Hottest surface temp 650, I get some awesome primary and secondary burns anything over 500 not sure if its the most efficient but it sure is pretty to watch. Owners manual for my Jotul Firelight says to burn between 400 and 600. No mention of an overfire temp but I try real hard not to exceed 600.

 

[BrotherBart]

The hottest I had the old stove was 1280. Not on purpose. Busted weld air leak. Top glows, flue collar glows and the paint goes poof in the center of the top. And the paint burns off of the stove top thermometer.

On the new stove I hold it to between four fifty and five fifty. When it gets colder it will see six to seven hundred.

 

[Martin Strand III]

I'm curious to know....

1) how hot yall have stoked up your stoves.

Two more questions.

2) At what temperature do you think optimum burn takes place...

3) What is the max temperature a stove should be operated at?

Thanks for participating.

Andropolis
_______________________________________

Napoleon 1401

Hey Andy:

I'll take a shot at your questions and add where I think you've not yet heard the full story...

1) Masonry heater fires full bore with air wide open throughout the burn. No thermometer in the firebox, but, from empiracal knowledge, it gets into the 1800* F or higher range, which a metal stove should not be subjected to.

The Harman TLC 2000 wood/coal stove int he basement I routinely burn with a stack temperature in the 900* - 1000* F range with no glowing red of anything except the fuel.

2) Optimum burn of wood begins at about 1100* F in the firebox which exceeds the temperature most metal stoves can handle. Optimum burn of your specific stove is a different matter. Due to your metal stove's inherent limitations of being metal, and it's fuel requiring more heat to burn optimumly than the metal can take, it has to be dialed down (air intake reduced) to prevent overfiring the stove. Because of this, sorry, there is some 'waste' of the stored energy in wood when it is burned in a metal stove. If metal stoves were engineered and designed to be burned at the optimal temperature that wood burns optimally, many would be happier.

3) All metal stoves should be burned as hot as possible, short of glowing red, or per Mfg instructions. Less heat, if desired, is obtained by decreasing the fuel load and, unfortunately, decreasing the afferent air supply. This latter adjustment decreases combustion efficiency, can lead to creosote formation but is necessary when burning wood in metal stoves.

Aye,
Marty

 

[mikenr1c]

My Jotul 602CB routinely rises to 700 with a full load of wood. It is fully damped both front and back. I have seen it go to 800+ but not by choice. It seems to run very well between 600 and 700. If it is fully damped and has a full load it will show secondary combustion and a load lasts a long time. No smoke from the chimney either.

It took me a while to get used to this, but the stove seems to handle it well. - regards, Mike

 

[hilly]

I've had mine up to about 800 once... well, not me, but my wife! My owners manual says that it's overfired when it glows red, so I don't think any damage was done.

 

[fayman]

I've had my little Lopi Answer over 725. It handled it perfectly, but I got a little crazy and had the blowers on high to pull the heat from it. It seems to burn well in the 450-500 range. Around 500 the secondary kicks in and it'll heat up quickly from there.

 

[BrotherBart]

I've had mine up to about 800 once... well, not me, but my wife! My owners manual says that it's overfired when it glows red, so I don't think any damage was done.

Mild steel, which is what these stove are made of, gets to the cherry red point around 1100 degrees. You were fine. What isn't known is at what temp some of the various steel stoves will warp the panels. That is dependent of the construction of the stove and the thickness of the steel.

I just wish these manufacturer's legal departments would let them put actual temperatures in the manuals. A few do, most don't. They just go with the 'don't let it glow" line. I would tend to listen to the ones that do. And they say seven to eight hundred degees is over firing.

 

[fayman]

Like I just mentioned, the stove was at 450 about 20 minutes ago......Damped it down and the secondary brought it right up to 625 in no time. I could easily crank it up tonight, but its not quite cold enough to push it just yet!

 

[Mike Wilson]

I had the Kennebec up to 900 once... got worried but a call to Jotul tech support in Maine relieved my concerns. They said 900 won't damage the stove at all, it can handle it for fairly long periods without a problem. That said, I try to avoid it.

Best operating temperature is 650, she'll stay there for a few hours with a full load of wood, and won't vary more than 25 degrees from that point. Generally, on a single load of wood, she'll climb to 700, maybe 750, then settle back down to 650 for a couple of hours, and then hang at around 550 for another hour or two, and down from there. After 8 hours with a full load and the fan on low she'll be at 250-300 or so, time for another reload.

-- Mike

 

[lbcynya]

Ok, I'll play too. Caution, I may give some of you heartburn...

Thermometer is located on front edge of stove top, which is probably the hottest place, but the most conovienient for thermo placement. Stove is steel, lined with vermiculite top, bottom, sides and back. Firebox is a little over 1 cubic foot (aka - smallllllll)

1. Probably around 900, thermometer ends at 850...
2. Can't get "true secondary" (I call true secondary when the top of the stove looks like a gas furnace) much below 650. I can get this stove up to 700 on just kindling... With that said, optimum burn for me is 700 to 850 range...
3. Glowing red is the manufacturer described limit. Manufacturer also said (on the phone) that he believes it would be hard to over fire the stove using cord wood and not trying to be stupid.

Hotter than most, but I've tried endless combinations and really hot works best when it's really cold outside...

 

[seaken]

This question is just for fun. Every stove design will have a different surface temperature that is appropriate. And surface temps only tell part of the story.

We ran our Acclaim between 500 and 700 most of the time. It occasionally would get up to 900 for awhile. No problem. Most of your manuals may suggest not to "over fire" your stove but that is a nebulous term and does little to guide you. The proper surface temp will be determined by your own needs and the circumstances in your own install coupled with the particular stove design. Your manufacturer's tech dept. is probably the best source of help for actual temperatures to be expected. Some dealers are also knowledgable about their own brands and can be helpful when trying to determine what is approaching the "over fire" temp. In most cases, it is really hard to over fire a stove with the doors closed and a properly working air control.

 

[seaken]

Hey Andy:

I'll take a shot at your questions and add where I think you've not yet heard the full story...

1) Masonry heater fires full bore with air wide open throughout the burn. No thermometer in the firebox, but, from empiracal knowledge, it gets into the 1800* F or higher range, which a metal stove should not be subjected to.

The Harman TLC 2000 wood/coal stove int he basement I routinely burn with a stack temperature in the 900* - 1000* F range with no glowing red of anything except the fuel.

2) Optimum burn of wood begins at about 1100* F in the firebox which exceeds the temperature most metal stoves can handle. Optimum burn of your specific stove is a different matter. Due to your metal stove's inherent limitations of being metal, and it's fuel requiring more heat to burn optimumly than the metal can take, it has to be dialed down (air intake reduced) to prevent overfiring the stove. Because of this, sorry, there is some 'waste' of the stored energy in wood when it is burned in a metal stove. If metal stoves were engineered and designed to be burned at the optimal temperature that wood burns optimally, many would be happier.

3) All metal stoves should be burned as hot as possible, short of glowing red, or per Mfg instructions. Less heat, if desired, is obtained by decreasing the fuel load and, unfortunately, decreasing the afferent air supply. This latter adjustment decreases combustion efficiency, can lead to creosote formation but is necessary when burning wood in metal stoves.

Aye,
Marty

All good points. However, the question was how hot was your surface. Somewhat irrellevant with respect to masonry heaters.

A well designed wood stove will allow high internal temperatures and be constructed in a manner allowing replacement of interior parts at an appropriate interval. There are many appropriate ways to burn wood in the home. No appologies needed. Yes, there is some waste in all systems, to varying degrees. Practicality requires balance. Optimal is relative.

What was the surface temp of your Harman stove with those stack temperatures?

 

[JMF1]

One of the first few nights I had fire going I burried the needle on the Rutland thermometer which sits about in the center of the exposed stovetop per mfg's recomendations. I figure it was approaching 1000 or so..........kinda scarey! No glowing or anything, but that secondary really took off! Just proves that there's a learning curve with every stove and what you're putting in it.

The owners manual states a high burn is 800 degrees on the surface thermometer............I like it running in the 600-700 range myself.

 

[carpniels]

My Vermont Casting Intrepid II went up to 980.
My Jotul Castine went to 850.
My Quadrafire Isle Royale went to 950.

All by mistake. I don't know what gets them that high, but it is not good. Too hot in that room, radiant heat keeps you at least 8 ft away.

Normally run them between 500 and 700. Seems optimal.

Carpniels

 

[Andropolis]

Thanks everyone...

All very informative and entertaining answers. I had my Napoleon insert up to 650 last night.. a little too hot for this mild temperatures we're having.

My manual says not to exceed a stove top temperature of 700 F. I wonder how accurate that is and if damage would really occur if it was exceeded. 700 is no where near some of the temperatures you people have listed.

 

[seaken]

Thanks everyone...

All very informative and entertaining answers. I had my Napoleon insert up to 650 last night.. a little too hot for this mild temperatures we're having.

My manual says not to exceed a stove top temperature of 700 F. I wonder how accurate that is and if damage would really occur if it was exceeded. 700 is no where near some of the temperatures you people have listed.

As Marty pointed out, metal will deteriorate at higher than 1000* temps. If you are constantly over 700 on the surface you will defintely be approaching the limits of some of the non-replacable parts. Napoleon is using that number to try to protect the stove from breaking. Some interior parts are meant to be replaced, some aren't. If you burn too hot you'll end up breaking a part not easily replaced.

We recently had a cutomer call to have us inspect his Avalon Rainier. The Rainier is protected with firebrick on the interiror and uses a thick steel for the interior air channels. This customer had burned out the interior parts that were meant to be replaced (the air tubes, baffles, bricks) but had also cracked the interior non-replacable air channels and there was visable warping and oxidization. I asked him if they were monitoring their surface temperature and what they were typically burning at. They said around 500 and it occasionally got around 700. We talked a bit further and I started asking them about the room termpertures and how the house was being affected. Eventually, I got them reveal that they try to use the stove for most of the heat and leave the thermostat off and try to go from 60* to 70* in this house that is way too big to be relying on a Rainier alone. Plus, the insert is in an fireplace on an outside wall and they lose a lot to the masonry mass. They eventually agreed that they were probably pushing the stove beyond it's rating and that they really were more likely to have 700* surface temps than 500*. That was reasonable. If that stove is constantly at the high end of the scale it will break down faster.

We ended up repairing it and they agreed that they will have to replace the stove every eight to ten years because they can't fit in anything bigger. The Rainier barely fit. Their only other choice is to turn up the thermostat and burn the stove closer to the 500*. They will have to work the math and choose for themselves. But the point is that the metal cannot handle these high temperatures forever. At some point it will break.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Hey Andy:

I'll take a shot at your questions and add where I think you've not yet heard the full story...

1) Masonry heater fires full bore with air wide open throughout the burn. No thermometer in the firebox, but, from empiracal knowledge, it gets into the 1800* F or higher range, which a metal stove should not be subjected to.

The Harman TLC 2000 wood/coal stove int he basement I routinely burn with a stack temperature in the 900* - 1000* F range with no glowing red of anything except the fuel.

2) Optimum burn of wood begins at about 1100* F in the firebox which exceeds the temperature most metal stoves can handle. Optimum burn of your specific stove is a different matter. Due to your metal stove's inherent limitations of being metal, and it's fuel requiring more heat to burn optimumly than the metal can take, it has to be dialed down (air intake reduced) to prevent overfiring the stove. Because of this, sorry, there is some 'waste' of the stored energy in wood when it is burned in a metal stove. If metal stoves were engineered and designed to be burned at the optimal temperature that wood burns optimally, many would be happier.

3) All metal stoves should be burned as hot as possible, short of glowing red, or per Mfg instructions. Less heat, if desired, is obtained by decreasing the fuel load and, unfortunately, decreasing the afferent air supply. This latter adjustment decreases combustion efficiency, can lead to creosote formation but is necessary when burning wood in metal stoves.

Aye,
Marty

All good points. However, the question was how hot was your surface. Somewhat irrellevant with respect to masonry heaters.

A well designed wood stove will allow high internal temperatures and be constructed in a manner allowing replacement of interior parts at an appropriate interval. There are many appropriate ways to burn wood in the home. No appologies needed. Yes, there is some waste in all systems, to varying degrees. Practicality requires balance. Optimal is relative.

What was the surface temp of your Harman stove with those stack temperatures?

Sean:

I know my brain is turning to mush but my eyes, and a few other parts, are still OK.

Original question 1) was

"I’m curious to know....

1) how hot yall have stoked up your stoves."

I don't see "surface" in the above original posted question anywhere (except I see it in your question; see below), just "stove". So, I feel my comments were on the mark. And I know it's not fair to compare a masonry heater with a metal stove. I just wanted the poster to understand the limitations of a metal stove in burning wood, how 'n why it falls short and that there are other technologies out there that do a better job.

My Harman only has a stack thermometer about 6" up from the beginning of the flue which comes off the top of the stove. So, the horizontal top surface, as well as other parts of the stove, reach temperatures unknown to me which is fine.

Aye,
Marty

 

[kregars]

BatCave insert...had it to 800 per the point and shoot infrared thermometer, I got nervous and didnt use till I had more time to look at (magnamount thermo was burried hard right, hense the infrared thermo) it. Turns out this old POS needed not only the new door, but the glass seals replaced. Once I replaced them, I can hold it at 400-575 easy if damped, but it's definately not efficient no matter what you do with it.

Continuing to look for a new stove, but need to rip this out after the new year (and warmer weather) and start from scratch...most of my 'usable' heat is lost due to this thing sitting inside the WAY overbuilt surround....anyone in the SE MD region need a full wall of used bricks? They will be available at the onset of warm weather first part 07.

 

[Marty]

Hearthstone Mansfield - Rutland bi-metalic thermometer - front center stone - just shy of 700 C
I usually shoot for 550 - 650.

 

[BrotherBart]

Hearthstone Mansfield - Rutland bi-metalic thermometer - front center stone - just shy of 700 C
I usually shoot for 550 - 650.

700 C? 1,292 degrees farenheit. Not bad Marty. Not bad! Smell any baking stone about that time?

 

[Marty]

Hearthstone Mansfield - Rutland bi-metalic thermometer - front center stone - just shy of 700 C
I usually shoot for 550 - 650.

700 C? 1,292 degrees farenheit. Not bad Marty. Not bad! Smell any baking stone about that time?

Whoops.

That would have been the day that even the beagle took off his coat.

I'm so used to giving coolant temps in C for Bosch fuel injection systems, on the other forum I frequent, that that one just slipped in there.

P.S. Don't you know soapstone laughs at those temps ... I'm thinking of switching from oak to enriched plutonium next season.

 

[seaken]

Its in the subject, Marty. I always consider the subject line the topic beginning. No worries.

Sean

Sean:

I know my brain is turning to mush but my eyes, and a few other parts, are still OK.

Original question 1) was

"I’m curious to know....

1) how hot yall have stoked up your stoves."

I don't see "surface" in the above original posted question anywhere (except I see it in your question; see below), just "stove". So, I feel my comments were on the mark. And I know it's not fair to compare a masonry heater with a metal stove. I just wanted the poster to understand the limitations of a metal stove in burning wood, how 'n why it falls short and that there are other technologies out there that do a better job.

My Harman only has a stack thermometer about 6" up from the beginning of the flue which comes off the top of the stove. So, the horizontal top surface, as well as other parts of the stove, reach temperatures unknown to me which is fine.

Aye,
Marty