How many run in the OVERFIRE ZONE?

[ckdeuce]

I have a Century FW300010 stove. When it heats really well, it runs in the OVERFIRE zone on my Rutland Thermometer. The thermometer is on the top of the stove in the center, 5" in front of where the flue collar is. I typically run the temp at 700-800. Never had a glow issue or damage. It seems to run great at that temp. It provide the best heat and secondary burn at that temp. Am I crazy??? Or are there other that run that hot. It just seems to be the sweet spot. If I take the thermometer and place it 18" up on the flue, I get a reading that is about half of the stove top temp. I'm ok with these temps right?

Thanks
Chris

 

[Jimbob]

I normally run 750-900(pegged) with my stove, measured in the same place.
Stack temp is 500-600.

No problems so far.

 

[jtp10181]

I think those guidelines on the thermometer are for single wall stove pipe temps 18" or so off the top of the unit. Probably only good for non-CAT or pre EPA stoves as well.

 

[dtabor]

I dont think you can use the specs on the thermometer to gauge overfire. If I did that Im running my stove overfired every day. I would say go by the manual. Mine says that running constantly at 750* plus is overfiring and will damage the stove. All stoves are different.

 

[mikeathens]

That thermometer, from what I know, is for the chimney, as stated - the Goldilocks zones (too cool, too hot, and just right) are supposed to be for minimizing creosote formation. I used to run my VC Dutchwest at 600-750 all the time with a magnetic thermometer on the door, and that was my "sweet spot" too. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[BotetourtSteve]

Is it possible that surface temps will vary stove by stove, even if firebox temps are similar? The reason I ask is that I have continued to learn and experiment with my new stove, and regardless of what I do I have yet to push surface temps past about 525. I have the thermometer placed exactly where Jotul suggests (top corner), and they also recommend 400-600 temps as ideal operating range. Once it is past 450 or so, it is flat cranking - rapidly boiling water and pumping the heat; secondaries work fine once she passes 300. I just can't imagine the surface temps I continue to read about.

And before you ask, the wood is premo - perfectly seasoned oak and ash. The only thing that may be an issue (if there even is one with my particular stove model) is that I have a very tall exterior chimney and plenty (excessive?) of draft, so still questioning if I need a flue damper or not. Getting easy overnight burns and can turn down fire pretty easy with air control, but still not sure if I would "hold" more heat with damper installed.

 

[mikeathens]

If you have refractory between your fire and your thermometer, then you'll see lower temps. The side load door on the Dutchwest cat. is the only part of the stove that is single-wall cast iron without any firebrick. If I would have put the thermometer on the top, I'm sure it would have been down in the 600 or lower range.

 

[savageactor7]

Never got a manual with our used QF4300st but I found it burns best just inside the beginning of the red zone...500-550. truthfully I don't know what temp starts overfireing the stove. If anyone knows I'd appreciate a heads up, thanks.

edit to add....the thermometer is in the top middle of the lower step...which I figure is the hottest part of the stove.

 

[SlyFerret]

I don't run my stove that hot. It usually cruises around 500. I've had it up to 800 to try to get the last of the black stove pipe hot enough to cure the paint, but only did that once.

My Rutland stove top thermometer is wildly inaccurate. I use the needle's position as a rough guide, but I ignore the temp numbers (it reads high at the low end and low at the high end). I use a laser gun thermometer that I bought at Harbor Freight if I want to know the actual temperature.

-SF

 

[tradergordo]

Just because a given termometer marks a certain temp as "overfire", that doesn't mean you are actually overfiring. Overfire temps depends on the stove, and actual temps depend on where you place the thermometer.

 

[BrotherBart]

With Napoleon being the only manufacturer of 3/16" plate steel stove bodies that states an overfire temp (700 or over) and all of the analysis of the World Trade Center collapse that say that structural steel loses significant strength at 723F, 700 is it for me. Actually 600 is it for me intentionally.

 

[Cearbhaill]

Mine peaks regularly at 700º F or so, and the Rutland thermometer on the door shows "Overfire" at 550º.
My manual cautions against overfiring but conveniently neglects to specify a number.

Through trial and error I have determined that this is just how my insert runs. If I cut the air back soon enough to prevent the temps from getting above 550º then the fire dies back too quickly. If I wait and cut it back only once it gets to 500º or so, then it creeps upward for a bit, peaks right around 700ºF, then settles in for a nice long burn.

 

[brooktrout]

Well, the magnetic thermometer slides off the door onto the hearth quite frequently- what does that tell ya? Normally cruising around 700-800.

 

[RonB]

Never got a manual with our used QF4300st but I found it burns best just inside the beginning of the red zone...500-550. truthfully I don't know what temp starts overfireing the stove. If anyone knows I'd appreciate a heads up, thanks.

edit to add....the thermometer is in the top middle of the lower step...which I figure is the hottest part of the stove.

The manual only says over fire is when the collar/stovepipe is glowing red or even worse, white. It does not give temps for this. I run my Quad 5700 step top up to 600-625. That is as high as I have been able to get it. It kick out a lot of heat at this temp. I wonder what 700 would be like? I measure stovetop temp about 6" from the front edge and centered. This is one of the few places on the stove that is actual direct firebox without baffles/shields etc.

 

[Hanko]

if I run my F-500 much over 500 even when it 10 outside it runs me right out of here. Ive had it to 700 once, too friggen hot. By the way, the fire inside the world trade center was estimated at over 2000 degrees

 

[Hogwildz]

With Napoleon being the only manufacturer of 3/16" plate steel stove bodies that states an overfire temp (700 or over) and all of the analysis of the World Trade Center collapse that say that structural steel loses significant strength at 723F, 700 is it for me. Actually 600 is it for me intentionally.

Typical old feller puttin that 60's muscle car down the road doing 25 miles an hr.

 

[eernest4]

Is it possible that surface temps will vary stove by stove, even if firebox temps are similar? The reason I ask is that I have continued to learn and experiment with my new stove, and regardless of what I do I have yet to push surface temps past about 525. I have the thermometer placed exactly where Jotul suggests (top corner), and they also recommend 400-600 temps as ideal operating range. Once it is past 450 or so, it is flat cranking - rapidly boiling water and pumping the heat; secondaries work fine once she passes 300. I just can't imagine the surface temps I continue to read about.

And before you ask, the wood is premo - perfectly seasoned oak and ash. The only thing that may be an issue (if there even is one with my particular stove model)

is that I have a very tall exterior chimney and plenty (excessive?) of draft, so still questioning if I need a flue damper or not. Getting easy overnight burns and can turn down fire pretty easy with air control, but still not sure if I would "hold" more heat with damper installed.

**************************************************
I have a secondary burn stove , The 1970-- 1/4 inch plate steel that I converted over to secondary burn & also a in line damper .

(Please see my signature line.)

I have a draft dump to room air also ,as My stove sits
at the bottom of a 45 ft long interior chimney with tons & tons & tons of draft, ---usually---
but not always.

So the question about the draft damper, I set mine only a little bit 1/8 closed & this seems to help initiate secondary burn easier with the damper a bit closed, less draft.

As to weather the damper helps prolong the burn ,probably a bit, but it can create more problems that the bit of wood that it saves you.

If you have it too closed, you can & i do get a campfire oder into the basement.

You can't see
smoke comming out anyplace from the stove & believe me , i was all over the stove,looking for a wisp of smoke, with a very bright 120 volt searchlight; the kind vacuum cleaner salesmen
use to show the draw of the dust in the air by the vac.
What it is with that is that sometime over the course of a 4 hr burn (flames on wood) not embers, the basement will ever so slowly develope a slight haze that you have to look extra hard, 3 times, to see & you will notice that the air seems dead & just the faintest smell of campfire.

I don't like this , so I have learned not to close the damper over 1/8th, because at 1/4 of the way from full open to full closed, you may start developing that slow almost invisable smoke haze with the slight oder. At 3/8th closed both the haze & the oder become quite noticable.

This really is no fun, at all, so in light of the miniscule savings in wood & if you have NO control
issues, controling the fire the way it is now, I would recommend against it as being more troublesome with smoke than benificial with wood fuel savings.

On other days with more draft, the draft control is no wheres near as touchy with the smoke issue , but which days are stroner draft days & which days are weaker draft days.

The effects of weater on draft can mess you up , as you dont know, without a mamometer draft instrument (gague) if you have extra high draft, high draft, medium draft or low draft
& so the potential for setting the damper wrong will always be present because the setting that worked great yesterday can be all wrong for today & give you smoke in the room.

If it can happen to me, after 3 years experience running the stove, & it did happen & does happen still, in spite of being forewarned & wary & cautious, Then it will surely happen to you.
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I would only recommend it if you had fire control issues & then, the additional safety of having better control of your fire would outwiegh the potential for getting some smoke haze & oder in your house.


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I hope this helps. If the smoke is not a big issue for you ,you can put it in the stove pipe & if you do get some smoke in the room, just run the stove with the damper full open & you won't get smoke in your room.

Some people are supper fussy about a fire smell in the house & I can't say as I blame them.

 

[eernest4]

Secondary burn stope pipe temps vs stove top temps.

I observe different stove top temps & different stove pipe temps with each load of wood,with varing primary air settings & stove pipe damper settings & with the type & moisture content of the wood.

So each burn is slightly different in my stove but the average of the burns are similar.
I note that today's burn was a lot like mondays burn but more unlike tues & wensdays burn.

What I note is a stove top temp that can go as high as 900 deg & a stove pipe temp that drops to 200deg, but never simioustaiously.

900 * stove top gives 450*- 550* stove pipe
800 *top gives 400-450 pipe
700 top gives 300-400 pipe
600 top= 250-350 pipe
500 top=200 pipe

I like to run 600 to 750 stove top, I can't always get there with every load of wood , but i usually get there.
If I see 850stove top I will set lower the primary air until I see 700-750 where I will let it cruise.
The stove will stay there for about 1 hr & then slowly decline, an hr later it may still be running at 600 & take another hr to drop to 500

When stove top hits 300,it is time to refuel, if it is cold outside. but if it is over 45 deg outside, i may just let the stove eat its embers up & start a new fire with newspapers.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT EVERY STOVE IS DIFFERENT. What is ok for my 1/4 inch thick steel stove could be overfiring for a stove of thinner metal. Stoves are designed different & use different gague steel.
The best guide should be your owners manual, not what I can get away with on my stove.
My stove is not a typical example of a stove.

Here I speak of the 1970 1/4 inch thick steel , 12 cubic foot firebox old timer smoking dragon
that I converted, very sucessifully ,to secondary burn. My stove being all 1/4 in welded steel,could get away with stuff that might buckle a thinner sheet metal stove.

Whats works good on a 350 chevy won't fit on a 1.6l honda civic

So let your owners manual be your guide.

But ,it is nice to compair what other stoves are burning at.

When mine gets really cranking, a couple of times I see 975 stove top temps with 600 deg stove pipe temps & I shut down primary air right away & she settle down.

Those temps are too hot & I won't allow the stove to run that way, but I do let it run at 750 stove top & 500 stove pipe on really cold days with no problems after weeks of repeated runs at those temps.

so ,keep in mind mfg recommendations.

 

[BrotherBart]

With Napoleon being the only manufacturer of 3/16" plate steel stove bodies that states an overfire temp (700 or over) and all of the analysis of the World Trade Center collapse that say that structural steel loses significant strength at 723F, 700 is it for me. Actually 600 is it for me intentionally.

Typical old feller puttin that 60's muscle car down the road doing 25 miles an hr.

Yep. My 1,000 degree burning days are over. Any time I get tempted all I have to do is go look at my meat smoker/old stove made out of the same stuff a Summit is. And look at the three inch popped weld and the ripples in the sides of the firebox. :wow:

Speed on youngsters. I'll be over here in the slow lane.