How much heat is too much?

[bpc]

Hi All,

First off, I've been reading on this site for a couple of months now...what an awesome resource. Thanks.

I live in central MA and am looking for a wood insert to reduce (or eliminate!) my oil usage. I've burned in the fireplace and love it, but I can't stand sending the the heat up the chimney. After much research and reading the feedback on this site, I've narrowed my search down to a PE Super, PE Summit, or one of the Enviro 1700 series. My reasons are that I want a > 2 ft^3 non-cat firebox, I want to be able to load N-S and I want to be able to burn overnight and during the day when I'm at work. I've laid out the various inserts, my fireplace will accomodate any of them. Clearances are okay, but I'll probably need ember protection.

I'm in a 2000 ft^2 colonial, just had it air sealed and blown in insulation done in the attic. My principal concern is my ability to spread the heat in the house. I don't want my living room to feel like a furnace and I don't want to have a fan running to move the air, whenever the insert is burning. Firebox size-wise, Enviro is a nice compromise between the Super and the Summit. But I've read (often) on this site to get as large of a firebox as one can fit and afford. So do I go for the Summit and build smaller fires as needed, or is that still going to be overkill for the size of my house? I've attached a rough layout of the house. My other question/concern is being able to get the heat up stairs. I only have the one staircase, leading up from the entryway. I decided to test the heat flow in the house today, so I left the downstairs heat at 72 and turned the heat off upstairs. Although I didn't feel any airflow coming through the stairwell, it never got below 68 up here (38F outside), So I'm thinking if I can keep downstairs warm, I should still get some conductive/convective benefit to the second floor.

Thoughts are appreciated. Thanks all.

P.S. My wife doesn't want a free stander so that's out.

P.P.S. I'm planning on getting wood once the snow melts, and will get kiln dried if I have to in order to have 20-25% MC for next year.

 

[ridensnow23]

If the summit has the biggest firebox, get that. A lot of people here have the summit and really love it.

Your concerns are legit. You will have trouble getting the heat circulated throughout the house. Most likely, your first floor will be warm and the second floor will be cold because your central heat will not be running. Heat rises, but you will find that the heat will form pockets of hot air unless you use fans to move it around.

Also, please realize that inserts rely heavily on blowers to heat the area. If you plan to burn the insert without the blower on, you will be disappointed by the heat output. If that's what you want, you need a free standing stove to radiate the heat.

Good luck and let us know what you choose. Post pictures!

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

I'm not sure you will be able to achieve all that you want, but, my advice is to get the biggest insert that you can, I have a medium size and it only heats a large family room, but keep researching...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum bpc.

You might also consider a free standing stove rather than an insert. You don't want fans so that seems to be a task for a radiant heater rather than a convective. Still, getting the heat upstairs can most times be a problem.

 

[bpc]

Sorry guys, I wasn't very clear. I'm fine with the blowers on the insert. What I was trying to get at is, I'd prefer not to have so much heat in one room that I need something like a box fan to move the heat throughout the first floor.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

bpc, you do not necessarily need a box fan. Just a small fan will work wonders. When we needed one, this is what we used. I think it is something like 7" and we can run it on low speed if it is needed. That effectively warms the rear of the house in about 10-15 minutes. A fan on the floor that small does not get in the way either. In our place, we always set it in the hallway blowing on low speed toward the stove room.

 

[bpc]

bpc, you do not necessarily need a box fan. Just a small fan will work wonders. When we needed one, this is what we used. I think it is something like 7" and we can run it on low speed if it is needed. That effectively warms the rear of the house in about 10-15 minutes. A fan on the floor that small does not get in the way either. In our place, we always set it in the hallway blowing on low speed toward the stove room.

View attachment 126003

Thanks, it's good to know that it doesn't take much. So you push air into your stove room, rather than pulling the air out?

 

[begreen]

This is too much heat.

 

[BrotherBart]

I heat a little larger center hall colonial in Virginia. Yeah, not as cold as MA but it was down to zero night before last if that counts. The most important tool in wood heating this house is a fan similar to the one in Backwoods Savage post aimed down the stairs to the entryway. I quit using one blowing into the stove room and performance actually went up. The stove blower does all that is needed pulling the air to it. Getting the cold air from upstairs down to the first floor and the convection loop that creates is the biggie.

 

[bpc]

This is too much heat.

View attachment 126018

I don't too often laugh out loud, but...lol

 

[bpc]

I heat a little larger center hall colonial in Virginia. Yeah, not as cold as MA but it was down to zero night before last if that counts. The most important tool in wood heating this house is a fan similar to the one in Backwoods Savage post aimed down the stairs to the entryway. I quit using one blowing into the stove room and performance actually went up. The stove blower does all that is needed pulling the air to it. Getting the cold air from upstairs down to the first floor and the convection loop that creates is the biggie.

Do I need ceiling vents between first and second floors to create the return side of that convection loop? It's a pretty standard upstairs with rooms off a main hallway. Not what I'd call 'open'.

Thanks for the input.

 

[BrotherBart]

I have thought about doing that for 30 years here. But don't want a chimney into the upper floor if a fire starts from the cook stove or whatever. The fan on the floor angled and blowing down and the warm air coming up over it do the job just fine.

 

[lopiliberty]

This is too much heat.

View attachment 126018

Nope, a little more would be nice

 

[DougA]

If you have oil, then I assume you probably have a forced air oil furnace. Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if you just turned on the furnace fan when you find the insert needs an extra boost to push the air into the rest of the house? You've already got the fan there so use it if and when it's needed.

 

[bpc]

If you have oil, then I assume you probably have a forced air oil furnace. Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if you just turned on the furnace fan when you find the insert needs an extra boost to push the air into the rest of the house? You've already got the fan there so use it if and when it's needed.

I have baseboard heaters. I also have mini splits in a couple of the rooms, so maybe those would move the air around if I put them in fan mode.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Your needs are a wood furnace.

 

[Kosmik]

Any of those interior wall structural?
Also a guy had pictures of doorways with the tops open to help circulate heat.

I'm guessing inserts heat more like a pellet stove than the wood stove. When I had a pellet stove in, circulation wasn't too hard, because it came blowing out of it hard enough to keep momentum (smaller house than yours, but I have one room offset that gets coldest and was heated better by the pellet stove than the wood stove).
Ceiling fans placed right are quite and do the job nicely, I think blowing down is the way to go, but my fan doesn't do it the other way, maybe to get the heat up stairs you'd pull it to the ceiling?

I think some well placed registers would help, but if you eliminate the oil, then you have an hvac system there already and could probably even go with wood furnace...Insert for looks/heat or keep the fireplace as is for ambiance.

Lots of us don't have existing HVAC in place, my guess from all the talk about fans. Or does the HVAC have a circulate setting, where it isn't heating but the HVAC is running. Problem solved, like someone said before.

Where is the oil furnace located, if eliminating, logical place to swap components (may require chimney $$$, but lining your chimney cost money too.)

And burn times on EPA stoves are under best conditions, best wood (infused with chunks of coal ) and impossible results...Seems taking 75% of their advertised burn time is closer to the truth, but I burn pine so I halve that. About 3 hours in mine, 3 medium pieces. I can have coals in the morning, but you only get heat in low when it's offgassing it seems, then it's just so so unless you open up the air.

Sounds like your top floor is going to hold in heat with all that winterizing.

How much oil do you go through? That will help give you an idea of your needed BTUs total.

Is garage to be heated? Kept above freezing? Cold?

The biggest problem I see is the house was designed with HVAC...So making use of that pathway will probably be the best way to circulate air through the whole house.

"My reasons are that I want a > 2 ft^3 non-cat firebox, I want to be able to load N-S and I want to be able to burn overnight and during the day when I'm at work. I've laid out the various inserts, my fireplace will accomodate any of them. Clearances are okay, but I'll probably need ember protection."
So wifey will be tending stove while you are at work?
If anyone here gets serious heat out of their insert for 8+ hours, please chime in.

 

[ironworker]

I have an almost identical layout as you in my colonial and I have a Lopi freedom insert in my fireplace with a blower and have absolutely no problem heating my home which happens to be 3100 sq. ft. It works fine, that heat's gonna find it's way right up them stairs, the best thing to do is keep it simple, start off with just a simple insert and you will see that's all you need. The only time I have a problem is when it gets into the single digits, I'm actually running it right now without the blower. And as far as size I would highly recommend getting the biggest one possible.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Thanks, it's good to know that it doesn't take much. So you push air into your stove room, rather than pulling the air out?

Right. That is the key because cool air moves better than warm air so the cooler air will replace that warm air in the stove room thus, that warm air is moving to the back of the house where that little fan is pulling the cool air from. It really doesn't take long to even out the heat.

 

[bpc]

Long time no post. I finally pulled the trigger on an insert this fall since a local dealer was offering free liners. I wanted an Enviro Boston 1700; however my hearth was 3" too short for ember protection and I didn't want to spend the money to extend it. I ended up going with a Quadra-Fire Voyageur Grand. My flue was too small for an insulated liner, but I did have a block-off plate and Roxul insulation installed. First burns have been great, I'm definitely learning the performance of the stove. No problems to date with the ACC function. My only gripe is that the fans don't kick on when in Auto mode. Quad Customer Service rep suggested checking the wiring and if nothings loose/miswired, to contact the dealer for warrantied service.

Thanks to everyone for the past input!

Original fireplace:


Cleaned out:


Insert installed:


First fire:


Next year's wood: