How to identify an insert and conversion options?

[marc]

HI from Michigan...how are ya?

OK the house that we bought has a basement fireplace that is completely bricked in, has a full chimney and manual adjustable flue, glass doors and hanging chain mesh, but has one tiny little gas log in it, fed by a gas line and automatic electric igniter unit.

I fired it up once a few years ago to discover that is was useless for heat...the gas log is simply decorative. It "looks" to be able to have the gas log and line/controls removed, and used as a regular fireplace. I am fully competent to remove the log and controls/gas line, but have no knowledge as to whether or not the liner/innards are actually suitable (i.e. safe!!) for wood burning. There is no blower or vent; just the flue/chimney. And the chimney is not some "gas vent", it's about 10 or 12" in diameter going all the way thru the roof with a respectable size cap/vent that are about 14" in diameter and 12" tall.

How do I go about looking into this? A local inspector wants $170 just to inspect it, but I'd like some knowledge of what to look for...

Thanks Much!!
Marc

 

[jtp10181]

We would need pictures to be able to come any sort of relevant determination.

Sounds like you have a prefab open firebox with a gas log in it, removing the gas log wont really give you much more heat, you would just be wasting wood instead of gas.

 

[marc]

OK I'll try and get some posted later on; leaving for a football game shortly. What specifically are we looking at? the inner walls, the flue, the chimney?

Are there ways to add a blower or something else so this could at least heat the basement (which is finished)? It's maybe 600 sq ft.

Thanks!
M

 

[jtp10181]

Some pictures of the whole thing so we can see what exactly it is.

If it is a ZC prefab open firebox adding a blower is a joke, you would never get any useful amount of heat out of it.

To get real heat out of it you would have to install a wood insert.

 

[Gooserider]

From what you describe it SOUNDS like you have a useable fireplace, but you are sort of bumping into the limitation of doing stuff on line - there are some times when there is no substitute for somebody really being there.
That $170 price does sound a bit high for just an inspection, you might benefit from shopping around a bit.
I would also keep in mind that burning a regular fireplace isn't going to get you much more heat than that decorative log would - fireplaces are heat wasters. You might want to think about putting an insert in the FP, then you get the benefit of both watching the fire and gettign serious heat.

Gooserider

 

[marc]

OK forgive my ignorance; what is the difference between a prefab firebox and a wood insert? Is there something deflecting the heat out of the setup? Or does the wood insert imply having some kind of blower setup as part of it?

Thanks!
M

 

[begreen]

Welcome, sounds like Michigan is readying for a cold snap. Gooserider is correct, as a fireplace it will still be a net heat loss. Have you looked at any inserts or stoves that you might want to retrofit (if that is a possibility)? Find a good local dealer with an excellent reputation for good installation work. After visiting them and narrowing down your choices, have them come out and give you an estimate.

 

[marc]

I guess I should have thrown my intentions in here as well...I don't want to fully heat the house with wood, I only want it to augment the furnace. Out of roughly 2000 sq. feet, I would like to have my fireplace (or additional woodburner) take care of maybe 1/3 of it.

We are bumping the kitchen 12' out into the garage, and the wife asked me to add a woodburning stove out there and vent it thru the wall. My response was basically why would I do that if we already have a full brick fireplace in the basement? But I don't know what it's capable of to provide heat. So this is my first foray into seeing what our options really are with what we have (the current fireplace) vs. what we could end up with if we put a woodburner upstairs.

So basically I'm looking for backup info before I have someone in here that may hit me up for more than what I really need to do the job. I already had a new 96% furnace installed in the house when the oil-burner quit, and I had it oversized to cover the house, and basement, plus the kitchen addition should be no huge deal for the exisiting furnace as the house is only 1250 sq. feet, plus the basement at 600, and the new extension at about 160 sq ft.

And I've looked at woodburners for only about a half hour...and the local guy is looking for $1200 to $1600 for the unit, and what looks to be at least another $700 for the wall vent chimney, plus I'm sure there are some extras I'm missing, and install fees. That seems somewhat high.

So what's a reasonable woodburner go for?

Thanks!
M

 

[webbie]

We have to assume you have a pre-fab ZC fireplace which can burn wood. An inspection and cleaning would normally cost $95 to $150 these days. But you can also inspect it yourself.....

As far as options, the lowest price stuff would be something like a Heat Grate - The Fireplace Radiator:
http://www.gosalesinc.com/
(check to see if approved for prefabs)

Other than that, you have the choice of a fireplace insert with a full stainless liner or ripping the unit AND chimney out and installing a built-in stove-type unit.

Either will cost thousands of dollars, say from a low of $2200 to a high of $5K plus.

 

[marc]

OK I will check in later...off to the football game...

M

 

[kd460]

What part of michigan? If close to me, I could take a look. (Not inspection, but just to let you know if it's a zc fireplace) I'm in the Brighton area.

If it's a zero clearance fireplace (or also known as a prefab), then most likely you can install a wood burning insert into the prefab fireplace. Thats what I did. An insert is like a wood burning stove, but is designed to be installed in a fireplace. Some inserts can not be installed in a prefab fireplace, but allot can. If you go the insert route, get one with a blower.

Hope that clears things up a little. Are the lions for real or just lucky? Looks like you picked a good game to go see.6 and 2, have not seen that in awhile. KD

 

[Gooserider]

OK forgive my ignorance; what is the difference between a prefab firebox and a wood insert? Is there something deflecting the heat out of the setup? Or does the wood insert imply having some kind of blower setup as part of it?

Thanks!
M

OK, looks like lots of good advice otherwise, but nobody has really addressed this completely.

There are a couple of different types of fireplace - traditional "site built" fireplaces, that are built on the spot by a mason out of bricks, mortar, etc, and the "pre-fab" or "zero clearance" fireplace which is a factory made firebox that is designed to be dropped into place when the house is being framed - normally these will be made out of metal, although some have a fake brick interior, and have a metal air cooled chimney. There are now some "high efficiency" ZC fireplaces out there, but most are "builder box specials" designed to allow the builder to put in a "real fireplace" for as little as possible. They are engineered to have cooling systems designed into them so as to allow installation very close to wooden house framing, and you need to be careful when modifying them not to violate the integrity of these systems.

An insert is essentially a wood stove with a shell around it, that is designed to fit into the opening of a PRE-EXISTING fireplace. Nearly all modern inserts are designed to be high efficiency, low pollution units that will add a great deal of heat to your home. If installing into a ZC fireplace, there are some restrictions, starting with the requirement that the insert be "listed" or UL approved for installation into a ZC fireplace.

I would also add that basements can be difficult to heat, especially if they aren't well insulated, and in many homes it can be difficult to get stove heat out of the basement into the rest of the house. However additions can also pose many of the same heat distribution problems. The best bet is a centrally located unit in an open floor plan, but most of us have to live with what we are given. It is just important to keep in mind that wood stoves and inserts are space heaters, not furnace substitutes... They work very well at heating the space they are in, but less well at more distant areas.

Gooserider

 

[marc]

OK thanks much for the info everyone!

KD--I'm in Fenton (actually Lake Fenton schools area; just 4 miles north of Fenton).
And the football game was my son's; it was his end-of-season Powderpuff game...pretty funny stuff to watch!!

Goose that is an excellent explanation. Since the "visible" area of the fireplace is bricked in, but the chimney is actually passing thru the structure of the house, and within (I'm estimating) 12" of the wooden structure and walls, I'm assuming this is a ZC unit.

Webmaster--thanks for the link! That product looks like an excellent value for the price! I'll have to look into that some more.

As for the basement, the walls are finished and insulated. I have not done the ceiling--yet--due to ongoing home projects and potential wiring work (like the kitchen extension feed, etc...).

I will get some pic's going; my good digital crapped out on vacation, so I will try my backup or borrow a friend's....

You guys have been a real help! Thanks much for all of the responses!

I'll check back in later...
M