How would you handle this?

[ZBrooks]

I apologize for the length of this in advance....

There are two Harman/Quad dealers within 25 miles of my house. I chose to visit the Platinum dealer rather than the Gold dealer. I visited the dealer on a Monday, spoke with the president of the company and a salesman about the various stoves that they had available. During this conversation, I asked what the process was for purchasing a stove; do they have stoves in stock or do I have to order and wait for one? I was told that they have stoves in stock and that they burn all of them before selling them to make sure that they are ready to go. Great, I thought, I won't have to smell the paint curing.

After some more research, thinking, etc., I called the dealer back the following Saturday and told them that I was ready to purchase a Harman P61a. I was told that it would be ready on Monday. I called Monday morning to make sure that the stove was ready to go before I made the 25 mile drive. I also asked if there were any deals going on concerning pellets for folks that were purchasing stoves. The President said that he hadn't been doing anything like that, but that he would give me a free ton.

That afternoon, I showed up and paid cash for the stove and then loaded it up along with the pellets. Everything went great and I was stoked to be getting a good stove and pellets. When I got home and unloaded the stove, I opened the manual and saw a place for the serial number. This is when I noticed that the serial number on the stove did not match the serial number on the receipt. Then, I noticed that the label on the stove (with the serial #, etc) did not match the one in the manual. I then looked up the parts diagram for the hopper and found that my stove did not have the most up to date hopper, so I started questioning how old this stove really was.

I sent an email Monday night to the president of the company, described what I had found and reiterated that my intention was to purchase a new stove, but I had a bad feeling that this one was several years old rather than one that had just been through the paint curing process. Over the course of our email exchange on Tuesday, I was informed that they did screw up on recording the serial # correctly and that he was willing to do what I wanted; order a new stove or register the one I had purchased. I asked him 4 different times how old the stove was without receiving a definitive answer. However, I was informed that it was a new stove, even though it had been on flue in the store. Of course, this wasn't mentioned to me before I paid retail price for the stove. If I wanted a new stove, he would order one, but I will then owe him for the pellets he gave me. Apparently, the pellets were given to me because this new stove was a demo stove, so the pellets were to even things out, in his opinion. I didn't learn of this until the emails started flying.

On Wednesday, Harman, via Facebook, informed me that my 'new' stove was really 1.5 months shy of 5 years old.

At this point, what would you do if you were me and still wanted a P61a?

 

[Justin M]

I would return it and buy from another dealer. I would also report the dealer to Harman, the better business bureau, the dept. of consumer protection, etc.

 

[Lake Girl]

Stop payment and return the stove. Contact Harman to let them know that he sold it to you as a new stove not a demo and that he should lose his Platinum status. What did you pay for it? Depreciation on a 5 year old demo is worth more than a ton of pellets... Does it even qualify for warranty?

Glad you paid attention to your paperwork!

 

[P38X2]

I would return it and buy from another dealer. I would also report the dealer to Harman, the better business bureau, the dept. of consumer protection, etc.

+1
I would return it immediately and save all your email and FB correspondence, just in case. That's completely shady and unacceptable.

ETA- That "burn in" service also strikes me as a bit bizarre.

Care to share the name of the dealer?

Keep us posted.

 

[Lake Girl]

Did the dealer identify the $100 credit from Harman? Did you get paperwork for your tax credit?

 

[Madcodger]

+1
I would return it immediately and save all your email and FB correspondence, just in case. That's completely shady and unacceptable.

ETA- That "burn in" service also strikes me as a bit bizarre.

Care to share the name of the dealer?

Keep us posted.

Ditto. Bad, bad business.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

I would return it and buy from another dealer. I would also report the dealer to Harman, the better business bureau, the dept. of consumer protection, etc.

X2 or 3

 

[Lousyweather]

Stop payment and return the stove. Contact Harman to let them know that he sold it to you as a new stove not a demo and that he should lose his Platinum status. What did you pay for it? Depreciation on a 5 year old demo is worth more than a ton of pellets... Does it even qualify for warranty?

Glad you paid attention to your paperwork!

nope, 5 year old demo wont fall under the warranty for Harman, although the dealer can warranty it himself.......

 

[Nick of PA]

Hate to say it, but this guy for sure tried to stick it to you. A "demo" stove that is five years old and only ran to make sure it "runs good". Yeah right. Props on looking out for yourself and being vigilant with looking over your paperwork. I would definitely call Harman and bbb because this guy is a crook. Do what you can to return everything and go through another dealer.

 

[Lousyweather]

first of all, OP, very astute of you to figure what you did.......

I think I would get back with the dealer, insist on a new stove, see what happens. I guess, as a dealer myself, give him an opportunity to "make it right".....if you don't get REASONABLE satisfaction, then, agreed, deal with another dealer......I don't know what the consumer protection laws are like in Idaho, so cant comment on that, but you wont get any satisfaction from Harman, as they cant do much (trust me, can tell you stories about my competition), and the BBB likely wont get you anywhere either...........

 

[john193]

This is a total bull move. Personally I'd tell them to come pick it up.

The preburn thing is total suspect. These stoves are shipped on crates and wrapped in plastic and require minor assembly. I find it hard to believe that a dealer would be spending his own time unpacking,burning his own pellets and repacking for pickup.

I wouldn't ask for a single concession from these people. Get your money and walk away. Too bad you didn't put this on your card, hopefully you get your money back quick. If this is the kind of relationship this person has at the point of sale I wouldn't trust them to provide any service down the road. Unlike a new car, your stove can only be serviced by the dealer it was purchased from.

Some actions don't warrant second chances. This is one of them.

 

[Lousyweather]

This is a total bull move. Personally I'd tell them to come pick it up.

The preburn thing is total suspect. These stoves are shipped on crates and wrapped in plastic and require minor assembly. I find it hard to believe that a dealer would be spending his own time unpacking,burning his own pellets and repacking for pickup.

I wouldn't ask for a single concession from these people. Get your money and walk away. Too bad you didn't put this on your card, hopefully you get your money back quick. If this is the kind of relationship this person has at the point of sale I wouldn't trust them to provide any service down the road. Unlike a new car, your stove can only be serviced by the dealer it was purchased from.

Some actions don't warrant second chances. This is one of them.

there's a very good reason to pre-burn a stove before it goes out.......one, it burns off the oils and cures the paint, minimizing smell and possible smoke in the house.....two, it ensures all parts are working. Every once and awhile, a brand new stove can have a bad part, or a wire unhooked, or a broken casting....the list goes on. While not common at all, we do see that from time to time. The thing is, as a dealer, we are required to service the units even for manufacturing issues.....and we get paid very little to do it. When a customer pick up their unit and does their own install, the technicians don't have a chance to trouble shoot the units (of course, if we install, we can replace the rare bad part right away). So, rather than have an unhappy customer have to wait a day or two or more for a repair on a new stove, its arguable to minimize the risk ahead of time. We don't pre-burn them, as we have found these issues are rare, and we try to warn the customer that the stove will smoke a bit for an hour or so on startup, to alleviate that concern as well.

 

[Bioburner]

If no satisfaction in getting $$ back, go to state Attorney General. This was-is fraud. Could have their business license revoked etc. Stove prices have inched up about $200 a year so the offer of a free ton should have been with another $1000 or so of price reduction if the stove had been new on the pallet?!

 

[silverfox103]

I think I would get back with the dealer, insist on a new stove, see what happens. I guess, as a dealer myself, give him an opportunity to "make it right"

You must be kidding! HELLO, he just sold him a 5 year old stove and represented it as new. You want this customer to go back to the dealer, who just deceived him and misrepresented what he was being sold, to make it right? You're living in a dreamworld.

This dealer is a snake and it was no mistake what he did to this customer. He should get his money back period. I would also let Harman know, the BBB know and Idaho's Consumer Protection Dept of the Attorney Generals Office know.

Tom C.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

This was 100% in no way an accident. This dealer was without a doubt trying to pull a fast one and I would want all my money back.

 

[iceguy4]

First.... one of the premiere dealers in my area pre burns stoves (not sure of boilers) and I find the practice a GOOD one.
For me what I would do is use his stove till a new one comes. Keep his free pellets (he never linked them to you getting a used stove...it was a gesture) When the new stove comes in check the paper work and make him do the take out and re- install. After the dust settles and cooler heads prevail, you could then take it to the next level(I think I would). Save ALL incriminating evidence!

 

[silverfox103]

First.... one of the premiere dealers in my area pre burns stoves (not sure of boilers) and I find the practice a GOOD one.

Does your "premiere dealer" also sell a 5 year old stove and represent it as new?

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Do these pre-burns happen after a customer purchases a stove normally? Or does it happen as they get shipments?

 

[smwilliamson]

This stuff happens all of the time. Its hard to say what the best coarse of action is, though I will tell you it's a bit brazen to say you would have to pay for the pellets if he get's you a new stove. Tell em your fine with it but he needs to get the pellets up and out of your basement bunker as well as deliver the new stove down in to the basement and take the old one out. Personally I'd cancel payment and let him chase you for awhile.

 

[iceguy4]

Do these pre-burns happen after a customer purchases a stove normally? Or does it happen as they get shipments?

I'm not sure ..I came across one of their stoves...never used but tested...

Does your "premiere dealer" also sell a 5 year old stove and represent it as new?

My dealer draws the line at 41/2 years old...just joking... a cheesy move at the least.. two thumbs up to the OP for catching it...In this day and age ....Caveat emptor....

 

[twodogs02]

I would return it and buy from another dealer. I would also report the dealer to Harman, the better business bureau, the dept. of consumer protection, etc.

I would do as above. Also-

My dealer just delivered my new stove yesterday. He did pre-burn it so I'm going to check my paperwork tonight. I'm not as concerned since my XXV has the new paint color code stamped on the manual from Harman but, best to check twice.....

 

[Justin M]

You could also contact the police and consider handling the fraud issue criminally.

 

[bdaoust]

Even if he tries to "make it right", you are going to want to have a good relationship with the dealer for future service. If you have the option, go elsewhere. And I agree, make the guy pickup his "new" stove himself.

 

[moey]

Try and get all your money back in a nice manner first. Then raise hell once you get it back. BBB bad reviews anything you can think of.

 

[rona]

I apologize for the length of this in advance....

There are two Harman/Quad dealers within 25 miles of my house. I chose to visit the Platinum dealer rather than the Gold dealer. I visited the dealer on a Monday, spoke with the president of the company and a salesman about the various stoves that they had available. During this conversation, I asked what the process was for purchasing a stove; do they have stoves in stock or do I have to order and wait for one? I was told that they have stoves in stock and that they burn all of them before selling them to make sure that they are ready to go. Great, I thought, I won't have to smell the paint curing.

After some more research, thinking, etc., I called the dealer back the following Saturday and told them that I was ready to purchase a Harman P61a. I was told that it would be ready on Monday. I called Monday morning to make sure that the stove was ready to go before I made the 25 mile drive. I also asked if there were any deals going on concerning pellets for folks that were purchasing stoves. The President said that he hadn't been doing anything like that, but that he would give me a free ton.

That afternoon, I showed up and paid cash for the stove and then loaded it up along with the pellets. Everything went great and I was stoked to be getting a good stove and pellets. When I got home and unloaded the stove, I opened the manual and saw a place for the serial number. This is when I noticed that the serial number on the stove did not match the serial number on the receipt. Then, I noticed that the label on the stove (with the serial #, etc) did not match the one in the manual. I then looked up the parts diagram for the hopper and found that my stove did not have the most up to date hopper, so I started questioning how old this stove really was.

I sent an email Monday night to the president of the company, described what I had found and reiterated that my intention was to purchase a new stove, but I had a bad feeling that this one was several years old rather than one that had just been through the paint curing process. Over the course of our email exchange on Tuesday, I was informed that they did screw up on recording the serial # correctly and that he was willing to do what I wanted; order a new stove or register the one I had purchased. I asked him 4 different times how old the stove was without receiving a definitive answer. However, I was informed that it was a new stove, even though it had been on flue in the store. Of course, this wasn't mentioned to me before I paid retail price for the stove. If I wanted a new stove, he would order one, but I will then owe him for the pellets he gave me. Apparently, the pellets were given to me because this new stove was a demo stove, so the pellets were to even things out, in his opinion. I didn't learn of this until the emails started flying.

On Wednesday, Harman, via Facebook, informed me that my 'new' stove was really 1.5 months shy of 5 years old.

At this point, what would you do if you were me and still wanted a P61a?

Having been on both sides of this issue I can agree with both sides. First off I have helped deliver several stoves for a Harman dealer in the past and there is nothing more embarrassing then having a "New" stove unloaded , carried downstairs and after all the work of installing it the blame thing wouldn't run. This really makes the customer smile and gives them a lot of fresh confidence in both the installer and the store in general. After the stove is checked out and the problem solved then we have the new stove smell of burning oil, etc, and the owners wife opening windows etc.
After two instances like that, when we sold a stove we told the customer we preburn the stove before delivery so the smell was gone and we knew the stove would work. These stoves were brand new boxes not opened. If the stove was 3 years old but still new in box the customer was told that fact and if any updates were needed they were done before delivery.
The dealer in this case deceived the customer and if I was the customer I would cancel the check and say get your stove as I don't put up with liars.