HPBA update

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webby3650

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
11,501
Indiana
Just got back from the trade show in Nashville. There wasn’t a whole lot of surprises or new products. Most notable was jotul. They have replaced the castine with a smaller version of the Oslo. Same castings only smaller. The new cats are being made in Texas and have an innovative SS can design. Even the 602 had a cat now, and no bypass.
The pacific energy super 27 has a cat. They simply shoved a cat into the flue collar… so lame.. hopefully they will come up with something better. Everyone had came out with an electric unit anticipating the “clean” movement. Most are a joke though. The best were from Mendota and modern flame.
 
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webby3650 said:
They frown on pics unless it’s in production.
Imagine setting a cat directly in the flue collar. A ceramic cat with no bypass. That’s what they did..
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I've wondered if this is actually a genius design. When the stove cools down and begins to smolder the cat lights off and drives a bunch of heat up the fuel, increasing draft and relighting the firebox. As this happens the cat becomes less active as the fire is now occuring in the firebox, the flue cools (relatively) decreasing draft. In theory this should achieve a relatively stable equilibrium.

The bonus being cleaner air for all.
 
I wonder if it’s a wink-wink, sure, we’re doing our part to keep the air clean. Meanwhile the homeowner chucks the cat into the ash pan and runs it like Supers have been run for over 30 years.

Was the cat pre heated with electricity? I don’t see it hurting draft much. I’ve been able to start my T5 with the key damper engaged on 17 feet of stack. It was much harder than a usual start, but I was able to do it. A clean cat would provide less restriction than the damper.
 
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EatenByLimestone said:
I wonder if it’s a wink-wink, sure, we’re doing our part to keep the air clean. Meanwhile the homeowner chucks the cat into the ash pan and runs it like Supers have been run for over 30 years.

Was the cat pre heated with electricity? I don’t see it hurting draft much. I’ve been able to start my T5 with the key damper engaged on 17 feet of stack. It was much harder than a usual start, but I was able to do it. A clean cat would provide less restriction than the damper.
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I feel like a few of the hurried up designs are like this. Every stove will have a cat in the next few months. No it didn’t have any preheat. It probably won’t hurt draft much, what it will once all the debris from the flue lands on it. That’s the issue we are seeing with hearthstone, constant maintenance is needed to keep the cats clean. I called that when they first showed them at the trade show. When the cats are in the flue collar pointed straight up, it’s almost no benefit to the user, it’s simply so they can pass the emissions test with no consideration given to longevity of the catalyst. Then the user can just toss them once they clog or burn out and still have a considerably cleaner burning stove than stoves from the past. Just my 2 cents..
 
webby3650 said:
I feel like a few of the hurried up designs are like this. Every stove will have a cat in the next few months. No it didn’t have any preheat. It probably won’t hurt draft much, what it will once all the debris from the flue lands on it. That’s the issue we are seeing with hearthstone, constant maintenance is needed to keep the cats clean. I called that when they first showed them at the trade show. When the cats are in the flue collar pointed straight up, it’s almost no benefit to the user, it’s simply so they can pass the emissions test with no consideration given to longevity of the catalyst. Then the user can just toss them once they clog or burn out and still have a considerably cleaner burning stove than stoves from the past. Just my 2 cents..
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I thought that was how cats were added in the 80s... Nobody learned from that?
 
stoveliker said:
I thought that was how cats were added in the 80s... Nobody learned from that?
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I agree! There are a lot similarities!
Of course Blaze King is leading the pack. Lopi has done a great job making a very robust combustion system. Jotul looks be really be stepping it up, they had a strong presence this year. Their design with a unique cat and no bypass seemed so odd, but looks to be working out. It’s innovative for sure. The Oslo has been doing great for me!
 
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Todd said:
Dang, I wonder if it would be an add on to current models? I would mind trying one out.
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No. They added secondary air that’s introduced through the back that’s regulated with a bimetallic coil. The entire baffle system is different too.
 
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webby3650 said:
No. They added secondary air that’s introduced through the back that’s regulated with a bimetallic coil. The entire baffle system is different too.
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I like the idea of a regulated secondary air. In theory it should keep the stove from running away on you. I don’t know why they can’t do this with non cats?
 
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EatenByLimestone said:
How was the cat placed on the super 27? Do you happen to have any pics?
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I imagine it is the same setup as the True North TN25c. The cat is just to clean up the last percent or two so that it qualifies for the tax credit. The nice thing with this design is that if/when the cat eventually gets clogged with ash, the stove still operates normally. It doesn't block the main flue outlet.
Eman85 said:
Gotta pass the tests so people can get their tax credits and buy your stove.
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The stove is already clean burning. Yes, this is design to pass a test.
 
webby3650 said:
They have replaced the castine with a smaller version of the Oslo. Same castings only smaller.
Click to expand...
Same left-side door loading as the Oslo? Any inserts returning from Jotul Maine?
 
This seems like an industry that sees the sun setting due to a confluence of factors if all the solutions are just throw a cat in the exit.

I get using the same castings as the F500 but why if it doesn’t fit in a smaller space.
 
begreen said:
Same left-side door loading as the Oslo? Any inserts returning from Jotul Maine?
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No side load on the smaller one. I can’t remember the name of it.
Yes, they had the 550 on display sporting a hybrid system. It had a very innovative way to remove tubes easily to access the cat. It has keys if you will, that lift up and turn, removed then the tube slides out easily. No tools
 
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EbS-P said:
This seems like an industry that sees the sun setting due to a confluence of factors if all the solutions are just throw a cat in the exit.

I get using the same castings as the F500 but why if it doesn’t fit in a smaller space.
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Same castings only smaller. It’s a smaller stove that looks just like big brother, but no side door.
 
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webby3650 said:
No side load on the smaller one. I can’t remember the name of it.
Yes, they had the 550 on display sporting a hybrid system. It had a very innovative way to remove tubes easily to access the cat. It has keys if you will, that lift up and turn, removed then the tube slides out easily. No tools
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That's good news. They left a big hole when they stopped selling the Maine-made inserts.
 
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They said they have a contract with a company in Texas to make the cats to their specs. The can is able to expand and contract, instead of welded straps like is common and was allowing the cat to come apart on the early models. It was nice to talk to them and see they are pulling through the 2020 debacle.
 
begreen said:
I imagine it is the same setup as the True North TN25c. The cat is just to clean up the last percent or two so that it qualifies for the tax credit. The nice thing with this design is that if/when the cat eventually gets clogged with ash, the stove still operates normally. It doesn't block the main flue outlet.

The stove is already clean burning. Yes, this is design to pass a test.
Click to expand...
Not really. The cat takes up over 50% of the flue collar. It’ll definitely affect draft when it clogs.
 
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