I can't afford a wood burning stove because of chimney. help

[nEWRfire]

I bought an old house (1896) in NJ and really want to install a wood burning stove. Unfortunately my chimney is in terrible shape. The piece of chimney which is external to the house is going to fall down in next few years, the chimney has 2 flues but one has been filled in with rubble. The 'working' flue is currently used for the hot water heater and 1of the 2 furnaces. There is no flue for the existing fire place. The working flue isn't really working very well either and has cracks and spalling.

So to get a wood burning stove I am going to have to:

• replace the current hot water heater with a direct vent model. The current hot water heater is 10 yrs old and a little undersized for my family. Cost to replace with 75 gallon direct vent $2k - quote from plumber
• replace 10 yr old furnace with direct vent model cost $4k. quote from hvac (I can keep existing furnace as a replacement for when the other direct vent furnace breaks)
• Tear down exterior part of chimney - cost $0 - I will do myself
• New liner in chimney and new extrior steel chimney incl labor i'm guessing $5k
• Blaze ashford 20 or 30 -$4kish or Jotul $2k ish

So I'm guessing the total cost of putting a wood burning stove in is going to be about $13/15k which is really disappointing because it is more than I can afford. I sort of have to do the new hot water heater and furnace but the wood stove if I'm being honest is an indulgence. Do you chaps see any ways I can find some cost savings?

 

[Poindexter]

What does your local code say about chimneys for pellet stoves?

 

[jatoxico]

Got a lot on your plate but wood stove wise it would be cheaper to add a free standing stove and chimney with dbl wall stove pipe.

 

[nEWRfire]

Got a lot on your plate but wood stove wise it would be cheaper to add a free standing stove and chimney with dbl wall stove pipe.

would you mind going into a bit more detail, why is it cheaper to go this route? Does this mean I could put the chimney wherever (within reason) I wanted in the house?

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

would you mind going into a bit more detail, why is it cheaper to go this route? Does this mean I could put the chimney wherever (within reason) I wanted in the house?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Instead of using the existing "chimney/flues" just purchase a free standing stove and run the piping straight up and through the roof (if that's possible). That way you don't have to touch the old existing chimney at all, well, except for when you have to do the hot water and furnace thing.... Just a thought, but it might be the "cheapest" way to get a wood stove installed and running ASAP......

BTW, welcome to the forums!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think I'd fix the chumney regardless of the wood stove. You don't want it falling.

Replace the water heater yourself. If the direct vent part scares you, go electric. If you have trouble sweating pipe, look into sharkbite fittings.

 

[Poindexter]

would you mind going into a bit more detail, why is it cheaper to go this route? Does this mean I could put the chimney wherever (within reason) I wanted in the house?

You may indeed put a new chimney wherever you like.

1 or 2 story house?

Check your local codes, but usual practice is double wall stove pipe from the stove collar to the ceiling of the room the stove is in. Then a "radiation shield" (many other names) in the ceiling framing, then chimney pipe rather than stove pipe on up from the heat shield thingy, through the roof, to the chimney cap.

In a 2 story home with the stove downstairs you would need to box out, or chase, the chimney pipe where it passes through living space on the second floor, I think the chase usually has to have a 3x3 foot footprint.

I wouldn't care to guess at East Coat pricing. Using the local installer my homeowner's insurance agent suggested I paid about $2500 to have the thimble thingy put in my ceiling and about 12' of chimney installed, including the through the roof framing heat shield thingy, and labor and blah blah blah. I pay about $1 / week for my homeowners rider, and I have someone to call if the roof starts leaking around the install.

 

[xman23]

I sounds like there are two issues. The chimney for the furnace and hot water heater. And another chimney for a new wood stove. I would address the furnace chimney first. The stove and chimney can go just about anywhere. If you are handy you can do it yourself and save a lot of dollars. There is enough installation instructions with the stove and chimney. Before purchasing the stove review all the clearances, as they differ.

 

[snavematt]

Here is how my stove is put in, it is all separate from everything else, entire install with stove right around $5k, propane hot water and propane furnace exhaust out the basement wall.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nEWRfire]

Thanks all. You have renewed my optimism.

Xman - good point there are 2 almost separate issues.

Nice pic Snavematt

Where should I look for install guides for wood burning stove?

My house is about 3000 sq foot split over 2 floors. I want to be able to comfortably sit in the same room as the stove and I do have hot air to backup the stove. Should I pick up a stove which will heat 1500 sq ft or the next size up i.e. ashford 20 or 30?

thanks all

 

[Ashful]

If all are located in same wall, I'd just wait till summer, knock down existing failing (structurally) chimney, and build a new chase. This can be stucco on cement board on steel studs, and sized to fit any host of chimney liners for your array of existing and new appliances. Usually built to match the old house, and look like a normal chimney.

BTW, 1896 ain't old for Jersey. [emoji14]

 

[begreen]

Where should I look for install guides for wood burning stove?

My house is about 3000 sq foot split over 2 floors. I want to be able to comfortably sit in the same room as the stove and I do have hot air to backup the stove. Should I pick up a stove which will heat 1500 sq ft or the next size up i.e. ashford 20 or 30?

For installation guides start with the stoves you are interested in. You'll need to take marketing info with a grain of salt. Some list optimistic sq ftg heated and others try to be more accurate. The BK Ashford is not a step up or down in sq ftg heated, but they do tend to list more accurate performance numbers. The sq ftg heated is going to depend on how well insulated and sealed the house is.

 

[nEWRfire]

The house is poorly insulated and is pretty open plan on the first floor

 

[xman23]

The house is poorly insulated and is pretty open plan on the first floor

Insulation, a third issue. I think most stove user / installation manuals are on line. Besides side clearances, the hearth requirements go from ember protection to high R value protection.

 

[begreen]

The house is poorly insulated and is pretty open plan on the first floor

The best return on investment is going to be improving insulation and sealing. That will pay back year round with lower heating and cooling costs.
I am with ashful on what I would probably proceed with. A chimney teardown is pretty easy, especially if it is old. Then replace with class A stainless pipe and build a chase around the piping if the goal is to hide them. Or run the chimney up through the interior of the house if that is an option. This latter option may take rethinking everything and relocating chimney and stove to take better advantage of a central location for more even heating. HW heater may be power vented out the side wall to reduce the flues down to one.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I think one of the first places I would put any money would be insulation and sealing up the house . . . some of the best advice I first was given when I stopped by here for the first time many years ago. It doesn't make a lot of sense to install a stove, new furnace, etc. . . . regardless of the fuel source . . . and then proceed to let all of those BTUs escape into the wild, blue yonder.

If saving money is a priority, there are cheaper options than the Jotul and Blaze King line of stoves. Englander, Regency and Napoleon all make decent stoves at a better price point.

Me . . . I would tear down the chimney and use Class A to put the chimney and stove right where I want it to be . . . but I think I would also want a second opinion on that furnace and hot water heater to see what the expected life expectancy might be. Woodstoves are nice . . . but honestly even though something like 90-95% of my heating needs come from the woodstove, I like the peace of mind that comes with a reliable oil boiler brings so that I know if I am away on vacation or sick I will have heat.

 

[St. Coemgen]

As others already said, you can install a new metal chimney kit. Most here talked about going through the roof, but through the wall is also an option.

See for example (for ideas only, I am not recommending or advocating this company):

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/metalbestos-home

Personally, I have had both, and prefer through the wall. In my humble opinion, to me, it just looks neater, and more elegant than having a long, vertical (usually) black pipe in the house. Of course, maybe some people like that look, especially with cathedral ceilings, which is fine -- to each their own -- but it just isn't me. And through the wall means no roof leak potential problems. And it is easier to drain off any water that may enter the chimney with an outside drain cock, than having it drip directly into your stove and cause rust (which I, for one, have had happen, a times, with the vertical pipe; even with the best chimney caps installed -- others experience may differ of course, and claim it has never happened to them, but why take the risk?).

Of course, going through the roof affords enormous flexibility of stove placement, not so possible with through the wall. So there are many things to consider.

 

[VirginiaIron]

That's an old house, congratulations on your purchase. I hope none of the information about the chimneys has come as a surprise to you and that you had a home inspection prior to purchasing it. I am excited for you with all of your upcoming projects. Since you're handy and can tear down the chimney yourself, you could probably save more than half of your venting installation costs by performing the work yourself- just make sure you follow the manufacturers directions carefully.

 

[rwhite]

Seems like about 10-11k of that work needs to be done regardless of if you get a wood stove or not. Is there any reason other than venting that the appliances aren't just plug and play? If it were me this would be a 3 yr project. I'd pick the largest savings appliance and get that done year 1, year 2 the other and tear down chimney, year 3 wood stove. All the while I would be DIY insulating, sealing, and gathering wood. I would guess if you jump into the wood stove right away you'll likely not have seasoned wood and either pay a hefty price for it or be very unhappy with performance.
And it's just my nature but I'd also be scrounging Craigslist over that time period. You'd be surprised what folks pull out on remodel or change over from gas to electric. You may be able to find lightly used appliances or wood stove.

 

[Elciteeve]

You are in a similar situation as myself currently and I know it's difficult to balance what has to be done right now with what is in budget currently. Some of those things it doesn't seem like you need right away. Craigslist often has new products that people used once and thus couldn't return. A great way to save tons of money but you have to be patient. Is habitat for humanity a thing where you live? It's sort of like Goodwill but house items. Certain items that don't ever really go bad, like cabinets, ducting, tile, things like that are literally pennies on the dollar. We bought a double oven for $35.00 It's dirty, and has one shelf missing... but it works and did I mention it was $35.00? Again you have to be patient because they only have what people donate, but there are some insane savings to be had.

Also, the labor of a lot of this stuff is what makes it expensive. It's not complicated. If you can tear down a chimney safely you can buy a book and follow the codes to safely install the various components you need. Setting up the entire system is a little tricky, but finishing off one or two things is much much more doable.

Water heaters are dead simple to install. Get an electric one. If you have PEX buy a crimper (They're like $50.00) and do it yourself. If you have copper buy a torch, flux, soldier (about $80.00 for all) watch a youtube video on how to sweat copper. It's not difficult to master. You just saved over 1k by not paying a plumber. If you really don't want to sweat the copper you can just switch the copper to PEX. It takes one compression fitting and you have transitioned. If you can use pliers, you can install PEX.

 

[nEWRfire]

Thanks all. I really appreciate your comments.

I'm a little concerned about changing the appliances myself because at the moment they aren't direct vent. Plugging in the appliances isn't the part which worries me so much as getting the venting done correctly.

Yes had a home inspection done before I had the house - knew the chimney was a problem but I didn't know about the flues.

i also think I prefer through the wall system.

I have the chimney man coming today - will update later

 

[rwhite]

Thanks all. I really appreciate your comments.

I'm a little concerned about changing the appliances myself because at the moment they aren't direct vent. Plugging in the appliances isn't the part which worries me so much as getting the venting done correctly.

Yes had a home inspection done before I had the house - knew the chimney was a problem but I didn't know about the flues.

i also think I prefer through the wall system.

I have the chimney man coming today - will update later

Unless you have an extremely modern 100yo house I doubt electric is an option. Most panels are already undersized for today's standards and it's probably a good bet you dont have the available amperage to run a furnace or HWH. So that may open up another can of worms.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Unless you have an extremely modern 100yo house I doubt electric is an option. Most panels are already undersized for today's standards and it's probably a good bet you dont have the available amperage to run a furnace or HWH. So that may open up another can of worms.

Generally, unless you pay cash you probably require a minimum of 100 amp service, 200 in some areas.

 

[rwhite]

Generally, unless you pay cash you probably require a minimum of 100 amp service, 200 in some areas.

I agree but not knowing the rest of the household appliances, a dryer, HWH,stove, furnace and all the other demands we put on systems today is a heavy load for 100a service on what is likely old wiring as well.

 

[VirginiaIron]

I agree but not knowing the rest of the household appliances, a dryer, HWH,stove, furnace and all the other demands we put on systems today is a heavy load for 100a service on what is likely old wiring as well.

Agreed. Typically, HUD required us to install one fridge and one anticipated appliance circuit and one new circuit for each room. Many times the older circuits were tied into a new supply/s but we never knew what conditions existed for those hidden conductors. Typically, the owners that were trying to sell their homes said that the realtor required a modern-day fuse panel with the old circuits fused at the new panel.