I know its an old question but......

[frenzee77]

I want to put a stove in my basement. Now from what I have read it won't heat the 2nd floor as well as I hope. However, my only other heat source is electric baseboard and a propane fireplace in the living room. I am moving into this house the 2nd week of February in Sturbridge, MA. I have heard plenty of people say that its a waste of money to heat a basement no one is using in order to heat the upstairs. However, electric heat itself is a waste of money. I plan on finishing the basement this summer so it will only be unused this winter. Some info on the house: Its a Cape Cod. Central staircase leading down to the 1/2 insulated basement. Somebody started finishing half of it There is a wall and a doorway between the two halfs. The stairway leading down is open on the partly finished side. OK so the way I see it these are my choices.

1) Do nothing.
2) Install Stove in basement. I have read there are firesafe vents I can install between floors to increase airflow. Anyone know the manufacturer and where I can get them?
3) Rip out propane fireplace and put in pellet insert in living room. Then I would probably need another stove downstairs after I finish the basement.

I know this stove in a basement thing has been beated to death but I haven't heard anyone compare it to electric yet. I'm assuming some of the heat will make it upstairs. The ceiling downstairs is not insulated so I was thinking it would warm the floor a little at least. You guys know what you are talking about so just tell me if I'm an idiot or if I should try something else entirely to heat my house. Thanks!

Tim

 

[frenzee77]

The chimney hookup is already in the basement. There is a nice little brick corner all set up for a stove. It is a walkout basement so carrying the fuel in and the ash out won't be too bad. I would definitely use the finished basement. My wife and I don't like a lot of the same TV shows so two living rooms is a must for us. I need a place to watch my Red Sox which she can't stand She would be the one downstairs though pretty much wraping herself around the stove to stay warm.

 

[frenzee77]

Sorry forgot one thing.. KWH in my are is $0.152

 

[frenzee77]

Oh one safety question. I was planning on getting a Harman P61 Pellet stove. I was hoping to leave it running while no one is at home. Are these things built to be safe enough to do that?

 

[Rhone]

Stoves in the basement are just fine if the area is going to be used. If that's where your wife will be hanging out and she likes warm temperatures it may work. Sturbridge, MA though is a city older than time, what year is this house you're moving into? I'm concerned you'll be putting the stove in a well insulated area to heat areas that aren't well insulated and leaky and will need to have the stove cranked to make the other floors warm. Cranking a stove, in a well insulated basement to compensate for lack of insulation and air leaks on other floors is a recipe for disaster. You also have to figure you're heating pretty much 3 floors, that's a lot of output for a space heater on the bottom. In my previous house, I had to keep the basement 80-85F to keep the main floor 70F - 75F, and the top floor was around 55-60F and it was a 1963 Colonial.

 

[rudysmallfry]

My stove's in my Red Sox basement too. Walkout access to wood makes it easy. A good portion of the heat makes it up the stair case with no blower or floor grate intervention. (although my basement in fully insulated) Last night I actually got the main floor up to 70 on just stove power alone. Of course it was 42 degrees out last night which helped. The upstairs is more like 64 on the colder nights, but I don't like it too hot on the main floor anyway.

Every house is different, so unfortunately there's no way of knowing how much heat will come up until the stove is there. Every house I've lived in has had the stove in the basement. One ranch with a fully underground basement got so hot that we had to open windows upstairs in the winter. A cape I lived in got no upstairs heat whatsoever. (cape had insulation on the basement ceiling which I think had something to do with that) It all comes down to construction, insulation, the mighty forces of pressure, etc.

As far as leaving the stove alone, that'll become more of a non-issue after you get used to running it for awhile.

 

[suematteva]

We have stove in insulated basement..walk in/ drive in 1/3 other 2/3 finished..works well for us...open stairwell and 1 register...it can be done successfully...Having walk in section is key as Dylan said...Keeps all the wood, ash, etc. in one section of the house..

Our setup has electric forced air for heat for house and radiant in one third...We spend significant amount of time there which is important as said above ..Recommend you insulate prior to finishing..

 

[frenzee77]

The house was built in 1966. The windows have been replaced with nice vinyl replacement windows. Is there anything else I could do cheaply that would really help with insulation?

What are the optimal conditions to get the heat upstairs. Insulated walls and uninsulated ceiling? I'd rather not cut holes in the floors. The house is on a hill so part of the basement is underground. I don't think I would mind having to keep one room in the 80's to keep another one at 72. Its better than all rooms at 65-68 which is what I would be able to afford if I just ran electric.

Thanks guys. You've been helpful. I'm going to put the stove down there and insulate the walls when I finish the basement. If that doesn't work then i will look into ducts and fans and whatnot.

 

[Rhone]

I'm happy to hear it's 1966 and not some 1833 historical site.

Here's the steps I recommend.

Obtain the permit to finish your basement. Not doing such, and trying to sell the house later I know people who had to "undo" their finished basement because they never obtained the permit. There are permits I skip, sorry Elkimmeg I didn't get a permit when I put in a new bigger bay window which I put in a bigger header as required but didn't get a permit. But, finishing a basement and wood stove/insert are not ones you skip and the ones I have permits for. Also, your insurance company will require the inspector to come out to approve the install. Think about what's going to happen if you didn't get a permit for the finished basement and the inspector has to walk through it to approve your wood stove install. He's going to see what a nice new basement, pull your records and see you didn't file anything, and from there it's anyone's guess. Here's some good info about what can be involved, some ideas to the inspections and what they're looking for in terms of a blueprint. Also important things that may be required by code (like pressure treated bottom plates, ceiling heights, etc). That's for MN, you'll have to find out what's required for Sturbridge, Massachusetts.

Concrete has an R-Value of 0.08/inch, your foundation is most likely 10" thick and providing a total R-Value of 0.80. It's amazing how much heat goes out a walk-out foundation wall. That's your first priority, get that walkout side of your basement insulated. (broken link removed to http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/foundations/renovating_your_basement.pdf), I don't recommend putting fiberglass directly against a concrete wall you can create a mold/mildew haven. You can put XPS against it first and THEN fiberglass. BTW by code the studs you fasten the drywall into MUST be fastened to the foundation wall with mechanical fasteners (like tapcons). You can't just depend on adhesive so put a hammer drill on your X-Mas list.

Work on insulating the other walls where most of your foundation is exposed.

Air seal the sill plate/rim joist area. That's where your basement wall turns into wood on top. Notorious for air leaks, and wood has an R-Value of around 1.5. You should have a 2x10 or 2x12 all around the permiter of the top of your foundation wall. The best way to insulate it is to caulk the gaps, and put in XPS foam board pieces cut to approx. shape. You then need to caulk around the XPS to make it air tight. Fiberglass doesn't work well in the rim joist/sill plate area, it will settle every so slightly and pull back slightly as well making it nearly useless after a short time. Also, make sure you don't insulate over any pipes, cut the insulation around them so they remain exposed to the basement.

Don't cut holes in the floor the first year you really don't know yet how it will do. Holes in the floor or not Stairways are where like, 90% of how the heat will travel regardless. See how it does first, if you find it not enough THEN think about potentially cutting the floor. No matter what, holes contribute very little to heat flow dynamics, the stairs are always the biggest players.

I didn't insulate the basement floor and I probably should have. The floors are probably around R0.5 and even with the ground being a constant 55F or so you're still losing some heat. On the priority list I'd place it probably last, they're very expensive to do. Keep in mind ceiling height, and don't insulate the ceiling.

I'd pick a stove with more convection heat, that is to pick one and pay for the optional heat shields or ones with them built in and I'd spring for the optional blower as well. They produce more convection heat that can move around the house. Pacific Energy makes many such stoves and highly rated, Englander can be purchased with rear and side heat shields adding to the amount of convection, VC has some offerings, etc.

 

[KarynAnne]

Frenzee - I'm a Jotul Oslo owner in NH with the stove in a walk out basement. It's only been cold enough here to make the upstairs chillier than I wanted it once so far this season. Here was the nice part...because the stove was doing its thing in the basement, it took the bulk of the heating job on. So when I kicked on the oil burner to make it comfortable upstairs, the furnace was only on for a very short time. This probably would be the same deal with your electric baseboard until you find an alternative to additional heat upstairs. We have an upstairs fireplace too which is about to be fitted w/ a 34000 btu ventless log set. I've gotten advice about thinking twice about that on here, but we've already bought it and I'll keep my eye on it. Anyway, the basement stove set up is cutting the oil heat back to just about nothing. Hope it works for you.

 

[mIstabone]

Oh one safety question. I was planning on getting a Harman P61 Pellet stove. I was hoping to leave it running while no one is at home. Are these things built to be safe enough to do that?

I run my new Quad Mt Vernon 24/7 I was also leary at first running it while i was at work but quickly got over that. There's not much that can go wrong with the good pellet stoves.

 

[Kenny1]

Oh one safety question. I was planning on getting a Harman P61 Pellet stove. I was hoping to leave it running while no one is at home. Are these things built to be safe enough to do that?

Yup.

Only on our first season with our P61, but we leave it on all the time.

 

[BrotherBart]

If a stove is safe enough to leave burning when you go to bed, it is darn sure safe enough to leave burning when your are miles away.

 

[elkimmeg]

My familly room is the red sox room during spring and early fall hopefull later fall .Then it becomes the Patriots room and in betweem the Bruins room

I think no matter what stove you get some of your heating dependency on electric will be lessened. Karyan describe it best set realistic goals
As mentioned axhuillary heat is one way holding in the heat is another way

I dissagree with Rhone fiberglass aroun you sillplate and rim joist works fine cut it one inch more if worried about shrinkage Like George Castanza
also use aviation wire to hold it in place futhere reducing shifting. What Rhone is un aware of it the space above the outside 2/4 exterior wall and the sill plate should be fire stopped
Yeaj Rhone its in the codes Very few inspectors know this. It seams money is an issue and you need refief now,, So size that stove accordingly. If I mentin one more time myprefference in manufacturer I probably get banned here. Money wise Englander is a lot of BTUs for the buckl Two months from now, when home cheap clears winter inventory for spring.
that stove will sell 25/ 40 % less