I need help with this?

[johnnywarm]

I have a rance style house(75 feet wide). At the moment i have a Big e pellet stove in the concrete cellar to warm the floors in the bed rooms and tv room. on the other end of the house up stairs is a fireplace in the den/dinning room then kitchen.


The pellet stove to heat the floor needs to be on high and the colder it gets the colder the floors are. the cellar is damp with one wall built out of wood with old windows since this cellar is a walk out type.


I want to put a Insert in the fireplace but i'm not sure to go wood or pellets? heres the deal, i'm waiting on a blower that stopped working last Wednesday. it will cost 200 bucks and i might not see it till next Tuesday or Wednesday. its getting to be the coldest of the year,7 degrees and no pellet stove. I do love the convenience and the steady temp from it but i think there's to many things to go wrong(at the worst time) and you need to wait for parts.


It looks like i can get free wood and i will need to cut and then split it to use it. all i need is a splitter. i help my neighbour split his wood no problem. i just dont like the temp spikes or the feeding of the stove at odd hours.




Heres the question------------Would you go pellet stove in the fireplace and the wood stove in the cellar?????


Or would you go pellet in the cellar and wood in the fireplace?????


Thank you Johnny(trying to stay) Warm

 

[elmoleaf]

Perhaps neither option.
Heating the basement to make warm floors is a waste of your money. Since your basement is unheated space, consider insulating between the floor joists to keep the cold downstairs and the warm upstairs. Or, just insulate the floor below those rooms that you find to be too cold.
Or, you might consider insulating the one exposed wall of your basement to keep it warmer in the basement. Also, consider insulating at the rim joists and sealing the joint between the sill plate and concrete foundation.

After doing that, you may find it simple to heat the house from one stove upstairs.

 

[johnnywarm]

After doing that, you may find it simple to heat the house from one stove upstairs.

If i heat from just the fireplace, it will only be warm in the rooms closest to it. I can tell a big difference in the floor temp now and its only 20 outside.



I did forget to mention that we had are stove for the second season now and we have had the power go off twice . so we know the feeling of the pellet stove shuting off. so having one wood will be necessary.

 

[Gibbonboy]

In a normal-sized basement, you are losing most of the heat that the stove in the basement produces. A masonry foundation is a giant heat sink, you're fighting all those tons of mass that suck up heat like a sponge, and radiate it to the worms just outside. My furnace is IN the basement, but doesn't really heat the basement, it pulls the air from upstairs, heats that, and sends it out through the ducts. When it's cold outside (below 20F), the basement is only 55 degrees. I tried for years, struggling with a coal stove, then a woodstove in the cellar, it just will not work unless everything (the masonry walls, etc.) are insulated.

So you're best bet is to put one stove upstairs. Any heat you put into an uninsulated basement is a waste. Focus on moving the heat around upstairs, instead of trying to suck a few paltry BTU's up out of the cold cellar.

 

[begreen]

If it's an either / or choice, I would choose the wood insert upstairs. My thoughts are that the pellet stove is already bought and paid for, doing what you expect of it. If the basement is actually used as a living space or shop, or rec room, then this is an added benefit. Keeping the BigE downstairs also keeps its noise downstairs.

By placing the woodstove upstairs you get the benefits of quiet fire viewing and strong heat in the central core of the house. During the shoulder seasons, you may just run the wood stove alone. With a woodstove upstairs you could increase heat circulation by placing a fan in the hallway that connects the bedrooms and have the fan blowing the cooler air towards the wood stove. For an insert, get one with a good, variable speed blower and one that convects naturally (without the blower) pretty well too.

 

[JimWalshin845]

author="elmoleaf" date="1197746612"]Perhaps neither option.
Heating the basement to make warm floors is a waste of your money.

Ummmmm... now explain this to all the people who have radiant heat flooring and to Johmnny who has been doing this successfully?

 

[johnnywarm]

author="elmoleaf" date="1197746612"]Perhaps neither option.
Heating the basement to make warm floors is a waste of your money.

Ummmmm... now explain this to all the people who have radiant heat flooring and to Johmnny who has been doing this successfully?

I love warm feet!

 

[johnnywarm]

[quote author="BeGreen" date="1197756120"]
With a woodstove upstairs you could increase heat circulation by placing a fan in the hallway that connects the bedrooms and have the fan blowing the cooler air towards the wood stove. quote]


This works. i blow the cold air towards the fire and get warm air in return.

 

[johnnywarm]

In a normal-sized basement, you are losing most of the heat that the stove in the basement produces. A masonry foundation is a giant heat sink.

But once that heat sink is warm it gives back. its the stove that needs help. it takes a while before it warms up. very similar to the fireplace we have upstairs.

 

[elmoleaf]

A radiant floor system using forced hot water heats the finished floor directly. Such a system puts heat in the floor and will often include a thermal barrier so the heat is does not go into the space/materials below (subfloor, joists etc).
The situation as described is using a basement stove to heat the entire basement space(and foundation mass as the other person described) in order to indirectly heat the floors above. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it's not terribly efficient. Not a problem if you have plenty of free wood or money isn't a issue.

It just might be more cost effective and less effort to tighten up the insulation at the basement so 1. the fireplace location alone can be used to heat the living spaces directly, perhaps in conjunction with a fan, or 2. the existing basment stove heat doesn't escape through drafty sills, uninsulated walls etc.

 

[johnnywarm]

[quote author="elmoleaf" date="1197767601"]
It just might be more cost effective and less effort to tighten up the insulation at the basement so 1. the fireplace location alone can be used to heat the living spaces directly, perhaps in conjunction with a fan, or 2.

This is how it is. you are very correct about the radiant heat in the floors.something my next house will have.


My buddy lubed up the bearrings in the blower and its working again. it looks clike water got into them?? they had alot of rust. it could be the moister in the cellar.

John

 

[JimWalshin845]

A radiant floor system using forced hot water heats the finished floor directly. Such a system puts heat in the floor and will often include a thermal barrier so the heat is does not go into the space/materials below (subfloor, joists etc).
The situation as described is using a basement stove to heat the entire basement space(and foundation mass as the other person described) in order to indirectly heat the floors above. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it's not terribly efficient. Not a problem if you have plenty of free wood or money isn't a issue.

It just might be more cost effective and less effort to tighten up the insulation at the basement so 1. the fireplace location alone can be used to heat the living spaces directly, perhaps in conjunction with a fan, or 2. the existing basment stove heat doesn't escape through drafty sills, uninsulated walls etc.

Yep, insulating around the box and the exposed walk-out side of the home is the way to go as an initial... but heat does rise and will keep the floors warm, especially helping dissipate the dampness in the basement will make a huge difference on the main level and will cut down on potential mold/mildew also. Most ranches have finished basement walk outs for the added space, I imagine Johnny's is also.

We heat a larger two story home, the way to best describe it is a rambler ranch with a master bedroom on the main level with a second story. During the winter we block off the upstairs open stairwell with visquine and the stairs look like a barrier that you would see in a walk in cooler (not pretty but effective).. but a huge difference in temps between the two floors as per temps since the stove is located in trhe same room as the stairwell.

The only bedroom upstairs that really appreciates as per temps is the other master bedroom that is right above our stove/hearth.

I think if Johnny insulates the entire basement ceiling he will just end up having the warm air flowing up his basement stairs and not warming the floors that are heating the far end of the house from the stove.

Thanks for the reply and warm burns!

 

[johnnywarm]

Yep, insulating around the box and the exposed walk-out side of the home is the way to go as an initial... but heat does rise and will keep the floors warm, especially helping dissipate the dampness in the basement will make a huge difference on the main level and will cut down on potential mold/mildew also. Most ranches have finished basement walk outs for the added space, I imagine Johnny's is also.



I think if Johnny insulates the entire basement ceiling he will just end up having the warm air flowing up his basement stairs and not warming the floors that are heating the far end of the house from the stove.

Thanks for the reply and warm burns!

No on finished basement. and yes on heat going up the stairs when we insulated the first condo that way.

 

[eernest4]

No too sure what 2 tell you johney. I have the pellet stove upstairs in the living room & the wood stove downstairs in the basement & yes, the basement soaks up a lot of heat but gives it back for 6 hours after the wood fire goes out.

Insulating the outside basement walls will help, quite a bit,I think. My pellet stove 2006 model, has noisy blowers that will eventually end up being replaced, not in the next 2 years,Ihope & needs electricity 2 run & pellets are more expensive than free wood, but a lot lot less work.

I like the ability of just turning on the pellet stove, for those times when I come home beat & dont want to lay & set a fire. I hate tending a fire at odd hours of the night but love free wood.
Pellets are way cheaper than fuel oil, about 1/10th of my cost as compaired to fuel oil.

3 different heating systems, wood,pellets & oil. I find myself running one, or the other ,both or all 3 at once, depending on outside temp & how i am feeling.

Both the wood stove & the pellet stove have already saved me their cost, in just two years & next year will save me their cost again.

Wood insert in the fireplace & repair your pellet stove.

Look to do the easiest thing that gets you the most heat the cheapest.

With a wood insert in the fireplace, you will have heat in a power outage, even if you cant run the blower motor. Since blower motors dont use a lot of electricity, they can be powered
by a small ,cheap 2 cycle chineese generator, 100.oo to 200.oo on the internet.
Stick the generator outside and run a 16 gague extension cord inside, maybe through a 3/8 in hole drilled through the wall, to power the blower motor.

A larger generator,5 or 6 hp 4 cycle, will have extra power for lights,refrigerator & tv set.
Something like a 4000wt or 5000wt.

I have a 5 hp 4000wt generator, 7 years old, never started it yet, never put gasoline it it yet.
But if I have a winter power outage, I will sure need it & be overjoyed that I have it.

 

[johnnywarm]

No too sure what 2 tell you johney. I have the pellet stove upstairs in the living room & the wood stove downstairs in the basement & yes, the basement soaks up a lot of heat but gives it back for 6 hours after the wood fire goes out.

Insulating the outside basement walls will help, quite a bit,I think. My pellet stove 2006 model, has noisy blowers that will eventually end up being replaced, not in the next 2 years,Ihope & needs electricity 2 run & pellets are more expensive than free wood, but a lot lot less work.

I like the ability of just turning on the pellet stove, for those times when I come home beat & dont want to lay & set a fire. I hate tending a fire at odd hours of the night but love free wood.
Pellets are way cheaper than fuel oil, about 1/10th of my cost as compaired to fuel oil.

3 different heating systems, wood,pellets & oil. I find myself running one, or the other ,both or all 3 at once, depending on outside temp & how i am feeling.

Both the wood stove & the pellet stove have already saved me their cost, in just two years & next year will save me their cost again.

Wood insert in the fireplace & repair your pellet stove.

Look to do the easiest thing that gets you the most heat the cheapest.

With a wood insert in the fireplace, you will have heat in a power outage, even if you cant run the blower motor. Since blower motors dont use a lot of electricity, they can be powered
by a small ,cheap 2 cycle chineese generator, 100.oo to 200.oo on the internet.
Stick the generator outside and run a 16 gague extension cord inside, maybe through a 3/8 in hole drilled through the wall, to power the blower motor.

A larger generator,5 or 6 hp 4 cycle, will have extra power for lights,refrigerator & tv set.
Something like a 4000wt or 5000wt.

I have a 5 hp 4000wt generator, 7 years old, never started it yet, never put gasoline it it yet.
But if I have a winter power outage, I will sure need it & be overjoyed that I have it.

Very well put. i have a gen for my shop. I love the convenience of the pellet stove but love the power of the wood. I do belive i will go wood insert in fireplace and leave the pellet stove in the cellar.


The pellet stove needed to be shut off again at 1 in the morning. i miss it bad. Cold feet again.


I think i can get a Large insert and they seem to run for 10 or more hours. I think that will be just about right for me.

John

 

[G-rott]

But once that heat sink is warm it gives back. its the stove that needs help. it takes a while before it warms up. very similar to the fireplace we have upstairs.[/quote]

Well here we have it Johnny is the source of Global Warming...hr is heating the mass of the earth from his basement?

I hate to be the one to break it to you but an uninsulated basement will soak up as much heat a you can produce and give you almost no return because mother nature is on the exterior cooling off far more than you can heat.

Heating thermal mass inside the thermal envelope absorbs and releases heat energy in the manner you are thinking of.

Garett

 

[johnnywarm]

But once that heat sink is warm it gives back. its the stove that needs help. it takes a while before it warms up. very similar to the fireplace we have upstairs.

Well here we have it Johnny is the source of Global Warming...hr is heating the mass of the earth from his basement?

I hate to be the one to break it to you but an uninsulated basement will soak up as much heat a you can produce and give you almost no return because mother nature is on the exterior cooling off far more than you can heat.

Heating thermal mass inside the thermal envelope absorbs and releases heat energy in the manner you are thinking of.

Garett[/quote]


All i know is when the pellet stove is working my floors are 70 to 72 degrees. "Feet warm good "lolol


I understand about heating the cellar. we are going to get a wood insert upstaires with a catalytic to keep the earth clean.

John

 

[caryski]

i all so have a big e pellet stove in my insulate full basement and i just a put a new 1200i wood burning insert in my fireplace upstairs , it is nice being able to pick your fuel wood pellets corn ,go with wood insert. PS my floors are nice warm so is my house

 

[begreen]

johnny and millions of other folks are the source. His isn't the worse case scenario by far. And probably no worse than total heat loss for an average insulated 5000 sq ft box being built today. Like Red Green says, we're all in this together.

If JW insulates the basement walls, he will start seeing some nice gains in the heating department.

 

[johnnywarm]

If JW insulates the basement walls, he will start seeing some nice gains in the heating department.

Im looking into it.

John

 

[begreen]

There are several threads in the Green room on this topic. Also check out (broken link removed to http://www.buildingscience.com/buildingphysics/thermalcontrol) for tips.

 

[snowtime]

eernest4; you will have a problem with that generator when you need it. If a gen has sit for an extended time [years] it will probably loose it's magnetism. This means no power. The trick to getting a gen that has lost magnetism to work is this. Plug electric drill into generator, after you start gen turn the drill head the opposite way it is set to run holding the switch on. Thats turn it backwords if it is set to operate forward. You can turn the head by hand or use the chuck key. You have to be quick as it will immediately turn against you so do not be caught with your hands or cord in the wrong position.
I have other issues with leaving a gen for years without running it. Good chance you will have other problems but the magnetism thing is not known to all and I thought you should be prepared.