I think my natural gas furnace is more efficient than running my new pellet stove.

[crouse77]

Last year my highest gas bill was about $96. My lowest gas bill for the year was $20, which would be in the summer for just hot water. That means that my highest bill for running my furnace would be about $75 in one month. Last year I kept the thermostat between 64 and 68 degrees depending if I was home or not. I just bought a pellet stove at the end of December and started running it on New Years day this year. It's now been in use for 18 days and I've went through 15 bags of pellets at $3.58 per bag. That's $53 for 18 days or about $3 a day. The house is colder this year and I still have to run my furnace occationally. I have the gas furnace thermostat set to 58 degrees, in case it drops that low during the day when I don't have the pellet stove running. I have run is some of the nights, but most nights I turn it off because I don't think it would be effecient to run it all night long.
To sum it all up, I run my pellet stove in the evening and about half the time over night if it's cold enough. It's cost me about $3 a day/ $90 a month in pellets. I'm still haveing to use my gas furnace, so that bill will still cost me something. If I tried to heat my house with the pellet stove only I can't imagine how many pellets I would go through, probably double what I've used so far or possible more. The salesman made it sound like it was going to lower my heat bills, but I think my gas furnace can keep the house warmer at a lower price.
Has anyone else done this comparison and felt the same way?

 

[BrotherBart]

Personally, if I could heat this house with anything for $75, or $90 for that matter, a month in the winter I would put my wood stoves, heat pump and everything else in the landfill. If you are just fifteen years old you won't live long enough for that pellet stove to pay for itself given that scenario.

 

[Metal]

Go to
http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=dmx
and see how many heating degree days there were last year versus this year. It may be colder in your area this year than it was last.

 

[Corie]

Wait, so just let me get this straight.


You burn the pellet stove for a couple hours at night and then turn it off before bed? Letting the temperature in the house drop until you relight the stove the next day?

I'm confused, why aren't you running the pellet stove damn near 24-7?

And also, what the heck are you paying for natural gas? We have a one bedroom apartment and the thermostat never passes 68 and I can't heat this place for what you're perceivably heating a hole house for. Like BrotherBart said, throw the pellet stove in the garbage, it will never pay for itself if you can heat the house for 75 bucks a month.

 

[crouse77]

I would run it 24/7 if it didn't cost so much.

Below is my gas bill for December. It was pretty warm this year, so it's a little low. My house is about 1600 square feet finished. The furnace is only a year old.

GAS CHARGES
Rate: SVF Residential 12/05/06 to 01/06/07 32 billing days
Total ccf 46
Company Reading 01/06/07 8841
Company Reading 12/05/06 8795
46 ccf x 0.988 pressure x 1.010 BTU factor = 46 therms
Meter No:A93202232 Basic Service Charge 10.00
Delivery Charge 46 x 0.23734 10.92
Pipeline Transport Charge 46 x 0.06955 3.20
Gas Supply Charge 46 x 0.78261 36.00
5.00 % Gas Franchise Fee 3.01
Total $63.13

 

[Corie]

DAMN

I have my gas bill from last month but its way off beacuse we were out of town from 12/15 until 1/16 and the bill runs from 12/03 - 1/04. During the time I was away, the furnace was not used and electric is used for hot water here.


GAS CHARGES
Rate: SVF Residential 12/03/06 to 01/04/07 31 billing days (31-20 = 11 days of actual heating)
Total ccf 27

Customer Charge $7.20

Supply Charge 27 x 0.90696 $24.49

Distribution Charge 27 x 0.28232 $7.62

Balancing Service Charge 27 x 0.04845 $1.31

Gas Cost Adjustment Charges 27 x .01091 $0.29

State Tax Adjustment -$.17

Total $40.74

 

[elkimmeg]

the whole story is not being told. A furnace and heating for a home 1500 sq ft cost from 10 to 12K
where is this factored in. Got a call today asking me if this was a fair price. The 12 year old furnace developed cracks in the exchanger. The original furnace builder special,
not worth just replacing the exchanger $7200 for Trane Installed .. repair and replacement cost has to be figured in.

No mention of brand model heating capacity is mentioned in the gripe.

If I could heat for $2.50 a day and not factor in repairs or cost of equipment and that was my only concern, No one would buy supplemental heat

equate that to one gallon of oil one fillup should last two years for heating. Boy! I want some of that count me in.

Have you also factored in the pellet stove, is reducing the demand on your furnace and prolonging it usefull life. That's got to be worth something

 

[GVA]

I would run it 24/7 if it didn't cost so much.

Below is my gas bill for December. It was pretty warm this year, so it's a little low. My house is about 1600 square feet finished. The furnace is only a year old.

GAS CHARGES
Rate: SVF Residential 12/05/06 to 01/06/07 32 billing days
Total ccf 46
Company Reading 01/06/07 8841
Company Reading 12/05/06 8795
46 ccf x 0.988 pressure x 1.010 BTU factor = 46 therms
Meter No:A93202232 Basic Service Charge 10.00
Delivery Charge 46 x 0.23734 10.92
Pipeline Transport Charge 46 x 0.06955 3.20
Gas Supply Charge 46 x 0.78261 36.00
5.00 % Gas Franchise Fee 3.01
Total $63.13

Damn us here on the east coast get screwed again That's a decent price.
21 therms here last month with just HW a Dryer= $52.02
But still 460 thousand BTU's to heat a house and water and dryer? How warm has it been there?

 

[Elderthewelder]

I pretty much only burn my stove in the evenings during the week (as wife will not mess with it) and from late afternoon on weekends. Here is my NG bill from 11/28 to 12/17

ccf=85 @ 1.0856BTU Factor
Therms usage 92.28 (compared to 130.5 therms same period last year)
Customer Charge =$6.25
Delivery charge-$0.29152 per therm=$26.90
cost of gas-$0.93967 per therm=$86.71
Gas conservation program charge-$0.00494 per therm=$0.46
City tax$120.32 @ $0.0471 per dollar = $5.67 ( don't quite understand this one)
Total $125.99

in the summer my bill is only around $30, I run the following NG appliances
Forced air furnace
range/oven
dryer
hot water
BBQ

 

[kevinmoelk]

Crouse, there are other factors involved as others have pointed out. Many folks here use wood 24/7 and aim for 100% of their heating coming from wood. Others like myself only use it as supplemental heat, for asthetics, and to offset some of the cost of other fuels.

A lay out of your home would help. My home is a ranch style with a central hall way, and doors to each bedroom. I keep the bedroom doors closed while heating with the stove. This helps keep the area I'm trying to heat much smaller, and hence reduces the wood I consume. I've experimented with having all the doors open and I can keep the house warm with just the stove, but I really have to keep it cranking to do so. Perhaps it is possible to close some doors, or put up a curtain to close off a hallway or some other unused space.

Also, are you doing anything to move heat around? Ceiling fans, etc?

-Kevin

 

[ThomasCNY]

the whole story is not being told. A furnace and heating for a home 1500 sq ft cost from 10 to 12K
where is this factored in. Got a call today asking me if this was a fair price. The 12 year old furnace developed cracks in the exchanger. The original furnace builder special,
not worth just replacing the exchanger $7200 for Trane Installed .. repair and replacement cost has to be figured in.

No mention of brand model heating capacity is mentioned in the gripe.

If I could heat for $2.50 a day and not factor in repairs or cost of equipment and that was my only concern, No one would buy supplemental heat

equate that to one gallon of oil one fillup should last two years for heating. Boy! I want some of that count me in.

Have you also factored in the pellet stove, is reducing the demand on your furnace and prolonging it usefull life. That's got to be worth something

Wow! The same guys that want $1500 to $2500 for a new Metal Box
with reburn tubes must be installing furnaces in your area!!

10 to 12 thousand.... What dollars ???

If your talking Just a Furnace change out $2200 and that's top dollar!

A 90% gas furnace is $1000 to $1200
Duct work would be about $1000
Add 30% for mark up to $2200 = $2860
Now add labor, two guys two 8hr days 45 hr each = $ 1440
That would be $4300 plus tax. Depending on the House and maybe some
upgrades you are talking $5000 Max.
But that's all new from the blocks under the furnace to the grills in your floor.

I stopped at a few stove dealers this year. They wanted $500 more than
list for a Quadra-Fire Mt. Vernon All the stoves are over priced.
My Advice to people reading at this forum that are on the fence is read
all you can and buy used. Spend your money on a good chimney
that goes through your house. Spend the money on Cultured Stone
make it beautiful. Then go out and buy a good used Non - EPA Stove
like a Fisher Stove and run it a few years then sell it for what you paid
for it and buy a new stove if you want. By then the new stoves today will
be for sale in your local swap sheet.

 

[crouse77]

My house is a bi-level house, see the picture attached. It is actually over 1800 square feet. I put 1500 because the laundry room isn't finished. It is heated, so the heated square footage would be 1824. I have the doors closed to the laundry room and the basement bedroom. I also close the doors to 2 of the upstairs bedrooms. The pellet stove is in the basement, so the only thing moving the air would just be heat rising up through the stairwell. I have a ceiling fan in the upstairs living room, and have tried runing it but have not noticed a difference.
i'm thinking of moving our bedroom to the basement and putting a curtain up by the stairs to keep the heat downstairs while we sleep. We will be closer to the stove and it will be cooler in the summer as well. I just thought I would be burning a lot less pellets when I first bought the stove.

 

[jabush]

I would run it 24/7 if it didn't cost so much.

Below is my gas bill for December. It was pretty warm this year, so it's a little low. My house is about 1600 square feet finished. The furnace is only a year old.

GAS CHARGES
Rate: SVF Residential 12/05/06 to 01/06/07 32 billing days
Total ccf 46
Company Reading 01/06/07 8841
Company Reading 12/05/06 8795
46 ccf x 0.988 pressure x 1.010 BTU factor = 46 therms
Meter No:A93202232 Basic Service Charge 10.00
Delivery Charge 46 x 0.23734 10.92
Pipeline Transport Charge 46 x 0.06955 3.20
Gas Supply Charge 46 x 0.78261 36.00
5.00 % Gas Franchise Fee 3.01
Total $63.13

I think the reason the stove seems to cost so much is that your burning it part time, and consequently you need backup from the furnace. I would burn that thing 24/7. Stoves heat differently than forced air furnaces...once you get the walls, furniture, etc.. in the stove room heated up it takes less heat (overall) to maintain the temperature in the house. If you find you need to move the heat around you can experiment with fans. Give it a shot...commit to the stove you purchased and give it a chance to do what it does best. Even if the savings on NG are minimal, I bet your house will be warmer and you'll be more comfortable overall.

**EDIT** I just saw your post. I have a split foyer as well, with (wood) stove downstairs. I use a ceiling fan upstairs (blowing down) to pull heat up the stairwell. Works pretty well for me.

 

[kevinmoelk]

ThomasCNY, I'm sorry to say, but I think your estimates are way out of line. 10-12 seems a little high to me unless doing duct work. But 5-10 for a furnace R&R, particularly if changing fuel source (oil to heat pump for example) is not uncommon or unreasonable.

Crouse, biggest problem I see is that you put your pellet in the basement. Pellet and woodstoves are space heaters. Hence need to be located appropriately. From what I've read it's darned near impossible to expect whole house heating when putting the device in a basement. Maybe time to relocate, or add another stove to the upstairs. Also, you've got a lot of window there... how is your home oriented N,S,E,W?

-Kevin

 

[elkimmeg]

I'm sorry I was using numbers from common homes now built in my town after I posted I was trying to think of the last 1500 sq ft home that must have been 10 years back Most homes are double + the 1500 sq ft But I wish I could get code compliant well edsigned work such as tyou described for under 1 500 k and decent equipment adequate returns and not require 4 inspections to correct the shorts cuts that violated code.

Anyhow My pricing is too high but yours are equally low

 

[Marty]

I had a Lenox puls 21 put in in 97' that repleced 2 older furnaces (50 and 60 year olds) new duct from the furnace to the existing ductwork (couple of lines less than 5 feet long) and insulation on the garage ducting (about 20 feet) for about $3,300.00.

 

[webbie]

It's hard to justify pellets when gas is $1.00 to $1.50 a therm....on a cost for cost basis. That is one of the tough calls of pellets - always was even when they were $150 a ton.

At 1.25 for gas per therm and 279. ton for pellets, the gas is cheaper by at least 30%. To say nothing of the other costs involved with a Pellet Stove. So you are correct that it is not cheap or cheaper to heat with pellets. There are some who would dispute, but that is like disputing gravity!

There are reasons for buying a pellets stove, but price is rarely the reason when compared to Nat. Gas or Oil. So if you enjoy fiddling with the stove, burn it. But given your figures it won't help your bank account!

Here is the fuel cost calculator:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

 

[nshif]

New construction... 2000 sq' Carrier forced air ( propane ), all ducting (insulated), grills, return etc, all for 3800$. I dont see how you could spend 10K

 

[ThomasCNY]

WrenchMonster, Heat Pumps are a different animal. Here in the northeast
they don't install them very often. Power is expensive and it's too cold.
Trust me..... Those prices I gave are good for my area. I've been in the
HVAC field for 15 years. I've been in the commercial / Industrial side of
things for the last 5 years.
My Grandfather had his furnace replaced this year. He went from a 80%
Natural Gas furnace to a 90% gas furnace. Rheem was the brand. He paid
$2200 and that included 8% sales tax. I had nothing to do with it.

I helped a friend this summer build his new house, he's a Plummer.
He picked up all the material at the supply house.
90% gas furnace, Duct work for a 1450 Sq Ft Ranch.
Gas piping, T-stat, $1600

Contractor should make about 30% plus labor. Now if labor is $200
per hour in New York City then it is.....

 

[ThomasCNY]

New construction... 2000 sq' Carrier forced air ( propane ), all ducting (insulated), grills, return etc, all for 3800$. I dont see how you could spend 10K

Hey nshif, thats a really good price was is installed before George W Bush
took office?

 

[Hogwildz]

Hell I have a quote for about $3,170.00 to run a second zone of supply/return trunks, across basement (30'-35') up through floor of 1st story up into attic of addition about 14' (1 story), and across attic of addition (25'). 2 supplies to off, 2 supplies to bedroom & 1 return to each. This is for the duct alone. I was going to cut all holes. Then to add the zoning equip. for 2 zones: 1 controller, 2 thermostats, 2 zone dampers & a bypass damper.Quotes $2,730.00
$5,900.00 to do that? I don't think so.

Worse yet, quoted me $7,780.00 to install a separate LP furnace for just the addition and the ductwork to go with that.


Now you know why I am doing it myself. Bet it runs between 1/3-1/2 less.

 

[nshif]

No it was installed last month.

 

[jjbaer]

Damn us here on the east coast get screwed again That's a decent price.
21 therms here last month with just HW a Dryer= $52.02
But still 460 thousand BTU's to heat a house and water and dryer? How warm has it been there?

That's actually 4.6 million BTU's since there's 100,000 BTU's per CCF

 

[jjbaer]

ThomasCNY, I'm sorry to say, but I think your estimates are way out of line. 10-12 seems a little high to me unless doing duct work. But 5-10 for a furnace R&R, particularly if changing fuel source (oil to heat pump for example) is not uncommon or unreasonable.

Crouse, biggest problem I see is that you put your pellet in the basement. Pellet and woodstoves are space heaters. Hence need to be located appropriately. From what I've read it's darned near impossible to expect whole house heating when putting the device in a basement. Maybe time to relocate, or add another stove to the upstairs. Also, you've got a lot of window there... how is your home oriented N,S,E,W?

-Kevin

I think it was elk who said 10-12K......NOT ThomasCNY

 

[jjbaer]

I had a Lenox puls 21 put in in 97' that repleced 2 older furnaces (50 and 60 year olds) new duct from the furnace to the existing ductwork (couple of lines less than 5 feet long) and insulation on the garage ducting (about 20 feet) for about $3,300.00.

In 1998 I had the following installed for $5,300: a Carrier Weather Maker Infinity (96% efficient) furnace with a DC variable speed high efficiency motor, a Honeywell electronic whole-house air filter, a whole-house humidifier, a Honeywell programmable thermostat, a 2.5 ton Carrier A/C with Puron and had all the old junk carted away.