i got my good used keystoker 90K installed the other day, the harman is sold. as far as i am concerned pellet companies are not only pricing themselves out of the market but also are failing at supplying enough pellets. pellets are $260 roughly per ton coal is really about the same for bulk rice anthracite. SO does it make sense to continue with this expensive fuel that does not provide enough heat in the extreme cold when coal is a much better deal. i will pay around the same and there is 10 million more BTU per ton, so i will burn allot less; and really by the end of winter i will be spending allot less. the house will be warmer and i will be saving money. pellets dont make much sense anymore.
im done with pellets
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Lake Girl
Moderator
Everyone is entitled to make choices that meet their personal needs, wallet and/or philosophies. I like the idea that pellets are made from a by-product of another process and are a renewable resource. I have yet to research comparisons on emissions between coal and pellet.
For myself, coal really doesn't seem to be an option in my area. The choices here are oil, propane, electric, wood or pellet. Each has its own positive and negative aspects in terms of time/effort or money.
Pellet procurement can be a problem especially with increasing numbers of stoves being installed and increased exports. There is also increased competition for bio-mass because of increases in industrial use. This fall, there seems to be an abundant supply. How long that lasts is unknown....
For myself, coal really doesn't seem to be an option in my area. The choices here are oil, propane, electric, wood or pellet. Each has its own positive and negative aspects in terms of time/effort or money.
Pellet procurement can be a problem especially with increasing numbers of stoves being installed and increased exports. There is also increased competition for bio-mass because of increases in industrial use. This fall, there seems to be an abundant supply. How long that lasts is unknown....
By product of what? Years ago they used to use scrap wood for pellets. Now the majority of wood is coming from clear cutting forest to make pellets. As far as coal emissions vs pellet emissions, anthracite coal burns as clean as natural gas. Not so with pellets.
turn_n_burn
Burning Hunk
Pellets used to be all the rage down here in Idaho, but darn near everyone I knew with a pellet stove has rid themselves of them and gone wood or coal. With plenty of good National Forest land,there's a ton of good douglas fir and tamarack, and black locust and fruitwoods are getting to be popular. There's a dealer in locally that sells higher grade bituminous coal for under 100 bucks a ton in bulk, and that is hard to beat. Unfortunately we are a long way from PA, and anthracite is impossible to come by without driving 2 days' distance or paying outrageous shipping costs. Our local D&B used to have what seemed like acres of stacked pellet bags, and now they only ever have a few inside the little foyer before you get in the main door.
Lake Girl
Moderator
The Spruce Pointe pellets are manufactured by Vanderwell in Slave Lake, AB ... a dimensional lumber saw mill. http://www.vanderwell.com/
They also participated in planting 100,000 seedlings. Same cannot be said for the company (pulp & paper) holding crown timber rights in our area ... haven't even cleaned up the area that was harvested 2 miles from my home not to mention planting any seedlings which is part of the deal when you hold timber rights.
LaCrete Sawmills is much the same - dimensional lumber. http://lacretesawmills.com/
Edit: http://www.canadianbiomassmagazine.ca/education/a-closer-look-at-wood-vs-coal-emissions-3166
Still looking for further info though...
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Cranky Yankee
Member
Burn what ever works for u. It's nice to have options
Cheers!
Cheers!
bogieb
Minister of Fire
On my way home last night happened to notice two houses within 2 miles of me that had just gotten pellet deliveries - several pallets sitting in each of the driveways. Around here, pellets still make sense - for you, not so much.
Stay warm my friend (said in the voice of "Stay Thirsty"
)
Stay warm my friend (said in the voice of "Stay Thirsty"
)
digitys
Member
This year pellets are up and oil is down, next might be the complete opposite and then again the next year.....
You are only wasting more money swapping in between different heating sources because you are mad pellets went up 20 bucks on average....
More pellets for the rest of us.
You are only wasting more money swapping in between different heating sources because you are mad pellets went up 20 bucks on average....
More pellets for the rest of us.
Switching to coal for anyone who has access to it, is "not" wasting $. Cheaper and more btus for your buck!
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Peterfield
Minister of Fire
I used to burn coal in a Surdiac stove. Liked the whole idea, the ambiance of watching the blue flame dancing over red coals, but the stove kept having issues and my lovely bride hated the coal ash somehow getting on everything over time, so a wood stove replaced it. If it wasn't for buying a 52i late last year, I'd seriously consider looking at a modern coal stove.
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Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
The stokers using rice, are a lot like a pellet stove.
Just a lot cheaper to use.
Dan
Just a lot cheaper to use.
Dan
Coal isn't an option where I live; all that's available is really low-grade bitumen (when you can find it) and it's just burnable dirt...
My pellet stove was the main source of heat for the house until last January when the heat pump went BOOM (insert double-barrel shotgun both triggers pulled noise here). System repair estimates were running into the same cost as a replacement system, and our local utility was running a big rebate campaign for system replacement. I ran the payback numbers (yours will of course vary) and found that an infinite-stage system was cheaper in the long run as we intend to live in this house for many years yet.
The numbers I ran said that the new heat pump system would be slightly cheaper to run than the pellet stove; it's actually turned out that it's $50+ a month cheaper. So the pellet stove is now used for ambiance and.to take the chill off the living room when necessary.
My pellet stove was the main source of heat for the house until last January when the heat pump went BOOM (insert double-barrel shotgun both triggers pulled noise here). System repair estimates were running into the same cost as a replacement system, and our local utility was running a big rebate campaign for system replacement. I ran the payback numbers (yours will of course vary) and found that an infinite-stage system was cheaper in the long run as we intend to live in this house for many years yet.
The numbers I ran said that the new heat pump system would be slightly cheaper to run than the pellet stove; it's actually turned out that it's $50+ a month cheaper. So the pellet stove is now used for ambiance and.to take the chill off the living room when necessary.
I`m not sure why the cost of pellets has risen so much , maybe plain ol greed? I think they were over priced prior to the present drop of oil cost, and so much more so right now.
Regardless I`m gonna run the oil furnace more this year and burn less pellets and I`ll adjust as the price of each change. And it will at some point.
Regardless I`m gonna run the oil furnace more this year and burn less pellets and I`ll adjust as the price of each change. And it will at some point.
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
When most people talk about the big increases in pellets,
I can't help thinking they are looking mostly at the BBS prices..
Yes.. they have gone up a lot.
But to be honest, and I am only going by MY local area, (ymmv)
most of the dealers here are about where they were last year,
and some two years ago..
As noted here, by more than one person, the BBS this year seemed to have
decided to actually make money on this stuff, instead of just getting people in the store.
Sort of Like the McDonald's model..
Have all this inexpensive stuff on the menu,
get people to thinking you are getting a good deal...
and then gradually get everything up to a price close enough to where some people say,
'Gee... I can get something better for just a little more'...
Dan
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Just as a follow up to the 'local guys vs. BBS' pricing above...
I pulled up our 2011 price sheet that we had on the webpage..
Okies $289
LG Granules $269
Trebio $259
BlaschakCoal $319
Today
La Crete, North Country, Platinum $285
LG Granules $279
And we have 100% Douglas Fir $349
Blaschak Coal $329
And I am not trying to stick up for our competitors, naturally,
but to be fair, most them are somewhat similar (albeit higher
)
BBS... completely different ballgame...
Dan
I pulled up our 2011 price sheet that we had on the webpage..
Okies $289
LG Granules $269
Trebio $259
BlaschakCoal $319
Today
La Crete, North Country, Platinum $285
LG Granules $279
And we have 100% Douglas Fir $349
Blaschak Coal $329
And I am not trying to stick up for our competitors, naturally,
but to be fair, most them are somewhat similar (albeit higher
)BBS... completely different ballgame...
Dan
Peterfield
Minister of Fire
Just as a follow up to the 'local guys vs. BBS' pricing above...
I pulled up our 2011 price sheet that we had on the webpage..
Okies $289
LG Granules $269
Trebio $259
BlaschakCoal $319
Today
La Crete, North Country, Platinum $285
LG Granules $279
And we have 100% Douglas Fir $349
Blaschak Coal $329
And I am not trying to stick up for our competitors, naturally,
but to be fair, most them are somewhat similar (albeit higher
BBS... completely different ballgame...
Dan
Well, we're obviously maintaining the life style you are accustomed to living.
Ambient
Member
Let me dust off my keyboard....Hello everyone! Growing season's just about over, it was time to prepare for winter. I thought I would pop in and read a bit. Stumbled upon this thread seems like a good place to start again.
I burned coal for years and still have the boiler (although it's currently in the greenhouse). One thing I've learned, was not to outright turn my back on one option just because there was a favorable wind blowing in the current direction. We have maintained many options for electric, cooking, water supply and heating here. If the costs are down now, it's not automatically guaranteed that it will stay that way. We now have three viable options for heating:
Pellets, Wood and Propane (listed in the current order of financial preference) I'm too far away for coal deliveries to be viable.
Propane, pellets and wood (listed for cleaner operation within the house), coal would be last on this list
Wood then pellets, if sourcing became a problem all together. I listed pellets assuming I could make my own if I had to.
If some crazy tax or regulatory restriction hits the coal industry, where would you be then? If you bought a diesel VW, where would you be now?
I burned coal for years and still have the boiler (although it's currently in the greenhouse). One thing I've learned, was not to outright turn my back on one option just because there was a favorable wind blowing in the current direction. We have maintained many options for electric, cooking, water supply and heating here. If the costs are down now, it's not automatically guaranteed that it will stay that way. We now have three viable options for heating:
Pellets, Wood and Propane (listed in the current order of financial preference) I'm too far away for coal deliveries to be viable.
Propane, pellets and wood (listed for cleaner operation within the house), coal would be last on this list
Wood then pellets, if sourcing became a problem all together. I listed pellets assuming I could make my own if I had to.
If some crazy tax or regulatory restriction hits the coal industry, where would you be then? If you bought a diesel VW, where would you be now?
TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
DneprDave
Minister of Fire
What's wrong with VWs? They still drive well and are just as safe, like before we found out about the cheating emmisions software,
They pollute more than we thought, so what? They still pollute less than older diesels that are still on the road.
They pollute more than we thought, so what? They still pollute less than older diesels that are still on the road.
TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
The problem is when VW rolls out fixes the car's performance and mileage will suffer.
DneprDave
Minister of Fire
Just as a follow up to the 'local guys vs. BBS' pricing above...
I pulled up our 2011 price sheet that we had on the webpage..
Okies $289
LG Granules $269
Trebio $259
BlaschakCoal $319
Today
La Crete, North Country, Platinum $285
LG Granules $279
And we have 100% Douglas Fir $349
Blaschak Coal $329
And I am not trying to stick up for our competitors, naturally,
but to be fair, most them are somewhat similar (albeit higher
BBS... completely different ballgame...
Dan
Looks like price increases to me.
I don't think anyone is advocating abandoning pellet stoves altogether. I think what some are saying, including myself is why not use the cheapest source available.Leaving the option of pellets on the table if prices go down. Granted for some a cheaper source of heat is not an option. But for most on this forum they are admittedly paying more to get the same heat they could with oil cheaper. The only way prices are going to go down is if the market drops for them. By continuing to buy overpriced, gouged priced pellets, you are only further enboldening pellet suppliers to keep raising their prices even higher.
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