I'm getting depressed!

[Jclout]

I had almost everything all set for my new stove to be installed and the existing chimney to be repaired and extended untill today. The proffessional chimney sweep and stove installer that I had to do all the work does not have a contractors supervisors licence which is required but that is ok seeing as how if the home owner is present during the work he can legally act as the supervisor. No problem, my dad owns the house and was going to be present for the work-only one catch, for some reason even though my dad owns the house and would be present, because he doesnt live on the premises the whole thing is null and void! Im not sure I understand why it makes a difference whether he lives here or not as long as he is present. This is depressing because it blows the whole thing out of the water. Now I have to find someone with an csl to do the job during peak season. My dealer is saying sometime in Feb. I have calls out to other guys and there may be one other possibility but it sure makes life hard when you try to do the rite and legal thing and you get shot down. The sweep I had is a proffesional and this is not his first job. He was going to work with my existing chimney besides, so that I did not have to put up a new one. Elk arent you a building inspector? maybe you could explain why the owner has to live at the property, why should that make any difference if he would be present while the work is done, acting as the supervisor?????

 

[webbie]

Explaining government, especially at the local level when something is open to interpretation, is often impossible.

Elk is no longer at this forum, but you can find his email below - I'm certain he will help you if he can.

 

[Jclout]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess I did, but still dont understand why.
Nut

 

[nshif]

Have your dad come "visit for a week " And tell them he lives there. that is just BS.

 

[WILDSOURDOUGH]

Everytime I hear something like this- It makes me mad as hell !
Someone trying to play fair and follow the rules- then at the last minute...'Wait, just a few more hoops to jump through'
Screw that !

Another great reason to get far away from the man.
DIY- we ain't got no stinking 'inspectors'.

 

[Jake]

off topic , but what happened to Elk?

 

[zogboy]

off topic , but what happened to Elk?

I don't know but it sure is a lot more relaxed without all that drama.

 

[Codeman812]

Now that is a really truly, funny post. I actually chuckled out loud. Now my wife is giving me strange looks because it is hard to explain.

Explaining government, especially at the local level when something is open to interpretation, is often impossible.

Elk is no longer at this forum, but you can find his email below - I'm certain he will help you if he can.

 

[webbie]

off topic , but what happened to Elk?

We came to a mutual agreement that it was time for him to move on.
He is very unhappy with the way we run this forum, and I am (obviously) unwilling to change it to his specifications - so we parted in as friendly as a way as possible....at least at first!

 

[Cath]

Explaining government, especially at the local level when something is open to interpretation, is often impossible.

I'll take a guess at the reason. An owner occupant has a much greater stake in safety than an absent landlord. It may not make perfect sense as applied to every installation but it does make sense generally.
~Cath

 

[Corey]

Still, you would think they would either have to accept the owner as the supervisor, or the occupant of the house, or -worst case- have both of them present. Otherwise, how could you ever get any work done on the house.

Also comes down to what 'resident' or 'occupant' is defined as. When I moved to KS and registered to vote, they ask if I was a 'resident of the state' - I asked what their definition was because I was curious if there was a minimum time before they considered you a full 'resident'. They basically said "did you sleep here last night?" - Yes - "Congratulations, you're a resident!"

 

[moondoggy]

ah so elk is gone?
i was wondering where he went.
dang that blows. but business is business.
i probably would not have gone ahead w/my stove had it not been for him.
i hope he is well.

sorry about your issue Nut, its only a matter of time and you will be up and running.

 

[rhetoric]

Inspectors. Just like any government official. Political power AND economic power in the same hands. Good man, good inspector. Anal man... er... uptight inspector. If they would at least surrender the power of inspection to professional chimney people, then the market could protect the integrity of the process. If a mechanic is lax w/ his auto inspections, he makes himself legally liable. But if a mechanic is ridiculously picky about a car inspection he knows I'll go somewhere else. If the DMV people in NY are mean you can't go get your license in friendly New Jersey. You're stuck.

I don't even think to bribe my mechanic, but I always wish I could bribe the inspector, the cop, the town tax assessor, etc. I don't, of course, because I'm poor, but I shovel the walk, make sure I have a cold or hot drink ready for him, speak kindly, etc. etc. etc.

 

[swestall]

I am with the have your father visit camp.

 

[Jclout]

Hey guys my dad and I tried again today to apply for a permit and apparently this type of work requires someone to have a construbiton supervisors licence at least in this town. We are supposed to pick up the Quad tommorrow. Worst case would be that I dont get to burn this year, or not for a while because this is peak season. I hope not I'm looking forward to running it. The guy who built my wood splitter also built a saw contraption for cutting logs to length that hooks up to the lawn tractor. My dad owns it now and we brought it to my house to see if we can hook it up to the tracktor. The Quad takes only 16-18" wood and some of mine is too small. When I borrow his camera again I will take some pictures of the saw and post them.

 

[drizler]

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me. Net thing you guys in Mass are going to have to put up 1 finger for a quick trip of 2 for a magazine run to the John just like I had to in first grade. They have a license for everything and an inspector ( with hand out and magnifying glass drawn) to do anything. No wonder people have gotten so helpless. What galls me the most is that for everything that "requires" a specific license the price gets nearly doubled from what it is where you don't need it. Amazing, and they stand there telling you how they are concerned about your safety while they eyeball your wallet.

 

[webbie]

One thing I will say in Ma. favor - they charge very little (in my area) for permits and inspections - like $25 to $75....hardly cost me anything for an entire shop addition and pellet stoves.

The reason Ma. is over-regulated is based in history - it was the first place highly colonized and also in a cold climate - hence, lots of people burned down their houses and even entire towns. Dams broke and destroyed entire valleys. So building codes were created - heck, notice the NFPA is located here.

The effect has largely been a good thing, but just like everything else, it can be administered with a spoonful of sugar or with some sour grapes. I have found that it is usually the PEOPLE, not the codes - which makes the difference. Virtually everything is open to interpretation, and when the inspector or town is on your side of the "customer". I have seen it both ways and it makes things much more pleasant when policies are designed to make the people happy.

 

[Jclout]

You know it would make a difference if it was a somewhat pleasant thing to get a permit. Sometimes it seems like the inspector is mad at you but maybe he has been burned before.

 

[stick burner]

Stove Nut,

Your story burns my ash. I feel your pain. You need to move to the bad lands of New Mexico, the last of the Wild West. We still have BLM land (we learned our lesson from Texas and the rest), where a man can still ride horses, shoot guns, ride ATV's and do anything else you're big enough to do without a bunch of bureaucratic nuts on top of you. Never had to go through any of the crap you're going through to get my stove put in. It was a simple deal. Hell, in some parts of this state they still ride horses into town for a glass of good whiskey and that ain't a joke. Good luck with the "town clown" officials.

Stickburner

 

[begreen]

You know it would make a difference if it was a somewhat pleasant thing to get a permit. Sometimes it seems like the inspector is mad at you but maybe he has been burned before.

Yeah, it really varies. I've had great inspectors that are super relaxed and helpful. They point out issues, but aren't waving a red flag or scare you. Instead they are trying to help you get the job done right. Often they offer suggestions on how to make it so. Then there are the power trippers, petty bureaucrats that try to turn their little power into a lot. Best to hunker down if that is what you are up against, smile and try to set up the situation so that they want to help, in spite of themselves.

I ran into an electrical inspector many years ago that hated homeowners doing the work, regardless of the provision for this. He came on the job ready to give me grief, but I showed him the permit, he saw the work was proceeding neatly and according to code. He still tried to talk me into using the local electrical contractor. There was only one in our area and depending on which one of his crew you got, it was either marginal or a hack job. As it turned out, this was an addition of a sub-panel. After listening to the inspector bluster about homeowners doing their own work and how much better it would be to have a pro do it, I showed him the master panel, done by his recommended local pro. It was a huge mess with short wires and loose connections. I told the inspector that I would be cleaning that mess up too and doing it to the same standards (way better) that the sub-panel was wired to. That was all it took. He signed off the rough in without another word. The final went very quickly, though he did acknowledge that the main panel now looked a lot more presentable in the final.

 

[pgmr]

The Quad takes only 16-18" wood and some of mine is too small. When I borrow his camera again I will take some pictures of the saw and post them.

Too small? Then you need the log stretcher contraption! ;-)

 

[Jclout]

Ooops! meant too big, thats why the big big saw.