In the market for a new woodfurnace

[laynes69]

As everyone here knows, I've had a rebadged Caddy for some time now. While it has served it's purpose, it also developed a large hole in the heat exchanger late last winter. I don't fault the manufacturer so much, as I fault the design. I believe the reason it happened was due to the heat exchanger passing thru the return. Right where the return and heat meet was where it occurred. Otherwise there is zero corrosion. At this point I'm either forced to repair and if so I replace that portion with stainless, or purchase something new. While our furnace did well, I would push it when we dropped to below zero, so I'm looking at something larger.

All of my research had led me to the golden eagle 7700. The emissions are half that of the old furnace, and the firebox is in the 5 cu.ft. range. It has stainless brick stays in the firebox, different pilot air, a hinged ash pan door, powdercoated cabinet and the heat exchanger is 1/8th in steel that has actual solid tubes and not welded steel. I'm choosing to install back to a series install and eliminate the dampers for easier operation for my wife. The unit is also manufactured in Alabama. Speaking with a shop here in ohio, I can get one for 2100 without the blower. Pricing the napoleon, they are 4200 and and the max caddy is over 4,000 also. It sucks, but gives me an opportunity to go larger for our home.

 

[DoubleB]

My entirely selfish opinion, because I have no skin in the game, is that you get it. If they could be more robust than our Drolet furnaces have been, but near the same price point and similar (or evidently better?) performance, than we'd all love to hear about it. Especially from a guy who has your experience to know.

Hasn't the 7700 been around for a while? I don't recall hearing anyone chime in here with experience operating one though.

 

[laynes69]

No, it has not. This is the second year, but they did redesign from the first models which were closer to the Caddy in regards to design. I guess they tightened up emissions in the redesign. From what I'm hearing from dealers and the manufacturer, it is one of their highest quality furnaces.

Here is a video it's in French, but it shows some of features of the furnace. This is the smaller version.

 

[Highbeam]

I don't fault the manufacturer so much, as I fault the design.

Never heard that before. Usually the manufacturer provides the design.

How long did the caddy last you? I could swear I remember when you did the upgrade. Did you smell smoke in the house or notice the hole during cleaning?

If you spend twice as much on a furnace that lasts twice as long would you be happy?

Gotta say, Golden Eagle looks pretty sketchy. Not a familiar name brand.

 

[kennyp2339]

Another user burned by US stove company. Whats the efficiency rating of the new furnace? 5cu firebox sounds humongous like 50 - 60 lbs worth of splits per load.

 

[laynes69]

I understand the design comment, I guess what I'm saying is I see why the design has been changed, no other manufacturer uses it. It's pretty much the same issue as a boiler with no return protection, just an area for condensation to occur and premature failure.

My old usstove furnace was the tractor supply special, and while it was hard to control at times, it was over 20 years old when removed and still used today. It's been flooded a couple of times and been pretty well abused and it still was solid.

Being familiar with the design of the, Napoleon, PSG, and Usstove offer similar designs, however, I see upgrades with the Golden Eagle that I currently do not have. While the emissions don't bother me whether it's 7 grams per hour or 2, I believe the Golden Eagle comes in around 3.5 grams which is damn good for a firebox that size. I've been looking for an upgrade for a while. I noticed it one day when I smelled a whiff of smoke, and when I went to clean out the exchanger, the tool poked thru and I found it.

 

[brenndatomu]

Just my 2 cents...probably a lot of new or updated models to be released in the next few months to couple years...I'd hate to buy something and then a new model catch my eye...guess my point is that it doesn't sound like that would be a difficult repair...at least good enough to get another year or two (three?) out of it.
I noticed that I was occasionally getting a small pool of goo at the bottom of the center heat exchanger tube on my Tundra (right at the back) so I cut a 6" x 20" (IIRC) piece of sheet metal to wrap around the outside of that area of the pipe...held in place with a large SS hose clamp. It acts as a bit of an insulator for that area and has accomplished my goal...only dry soot to be found during the weekly cleaning.

 

[brenndatomu]

I thought the Golden Eagle line was now US Stove owned?
Does this model have Tstat control...I know the one I looked at did not.

 

[laynes69]

Yeah, they are owned by US Stove. The first model looked like a Caddy. I did see a Kuuma on Craigslist, but it's the smaller model (it was $750), even if it was the larger model, I don't think it would be enough. I don't want a model without a heat exchanger, so that puts out a lot of manufacturers, and I need a plenum, which most don't use. I also want to go back to a series install. I've talked to the manufacturers of the other furnaces, and I'm going to make a 2 hour drive to see the Golden Eagle in person. I do believe it's controlled via thermostat. It does have a servo and damper setup similar to the Caddy.

 

[brenndatomu]

Any interest in the new Shelter SF2600? Supposed to be a beast...on sale right now...https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...7-c-12809.htm?tid=-4067754097726651504&ipos=5
or the SF3100...5.7 CF firebox!

 

[laynes69]

Any interest in the new Shelter SF2600? Supposed to be a beast...on sale right now...https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...7-c-12809.htm?tid=-4067754097726651504&ipos=5
or the SF3100...5.7 CF firebox!

I considered it until I realized there was no heat exchanger, only 8" plenum, forced draft and a flue size of 8". My liner is only 5.5" inch and I won't go back to forced draft.

 

[brenndatomu]

No heat exchanger...hmm. And forced draft...interesting...never seen a clean burn firebox with forced draft. I can see the 8" flue would be a deal breaker for ya for sure.
Just curious though, why the dislike for forced draft?

 

[laynes69]

No heat exchanger...hmm. And forced draft...interesting...never seen a clean burn firebox with forced draft. I can see the 8" flue would be a deal breaker for ya for sure.
Just curious though, why the dislike for forced draft?

My old furnace had forced draft. It was a pre epa model, and whenever I would hear the blower rattling the woodfurnace in the AM, it would be stone cold. When I quit using it, I had coals. The shelter or firecheifs rely on heat exchange in the top of the firebox. I get that now, however I also get additional heat from the exchanger. I can't wait for someone to purchase one and get some results, however due to the lack of a heat exchanger, I'm guessing flue temps would be much higher.

 

[N.Fo]

I considered it until I realized there was no heat exchanger, only 8" plenum, forced draft and a flue size of 8". My liner is only 5.5" inch and I won't go back to forced draft.

Gentleman,
I can tell you that the Shelter 2600 uses 6" flue, not 8".
Also, I learned that the heat exchanger in the new EPA Shelters is crazy efficient, yet simple.
I have had a variety of stoves & furnaces and tried my own modifications. I can say with certainty that a Draft Induction Blower is essential for a legit forced air furnace. Anything less is a knife at a gun fight. A furnace that operates like a stove does not use fuel as efficiently as an induction furnace.

 

[laynes69]

What makes the shelter heat exchanger any more efficient? From what I've seen, it's an open airspace above the firebox. As I've stated above, a single 8" or even a dual 8" plenum is not enough for our home, so that puts the shelter out.

 

[laynes69]

Here is a screenshot from the specs from menards.

 

[N.Fo]

I have a pre-EPA furnace from the same factory, (Fire Chief) and it's a beast! ( FC500 in a 2800sq/ft residence )
Burn time is my focus. The new Fire Chiefs get 12-18 hours. I'm used to a 8 hour burn time lifestyle. That is what I asked their manager about with the new design for the EPA models. I may throw my current model on craigslist and buy a new EPA model. It's September already. I've gotta act quick.

Sounds like older pre-EPA units like mine have a pretty basic air jacket. And the new EPA units have air channels all over to maximize heat transfer. The dual supply outlets seem easy enough. The old unit keeps my house up to temp. If the new units are distinctively more potent and efficient, I really want one. less cord wood fuel = less labor for me.

 

[3fordasho]

I've heard a couple references to these new shelter's as "heating beasts" but have yet to actually hear from someone that actually has one. With none of my $$ in the game I would highly encourage you to purchase one and report back ;-)

When I initially looked at the SF2600 I was sure it was a 6" flue otherwise I would have stopped right there. I suspect the Menards spec page is a typo at 8" flue. Their spec page for the SF3100 does not list a exhaust dimension at all. I also was under the impression that the forced draft blower was only used when the thermostat was calling for heat and perhaps start up, otherwise natural draft - I could be mistaken however.

I have a pre-EPA furnace from the same factory, (Fire Chief) and it's a beast! ( FC500 in a 2800sq/ft residence )
Burn time is my focus. The new Fire Chiefs get 12-18 hours. I'm used to a 8 hour burn time lifestyle. That is what I asked their manager about with the new design for the EPA models. I may throw my current model on craigslist and buy a new EPA model. It's September already. I've gotta act quick.

Sounds like older pre-EPA units like mine have a pretty basic air jacket. And the new EPA units have air channels all over to maximize heat transfer. The dual supply outlets seem easy enough. The old unit keeps my house up to temp. If the new units are distinctively more potent and efficient, I really want one. less cord wood fuel = less labor for me.

 

[brenndatomu]

When I initially looked at the SF2600 I was sure it was a 6" flue otherwise I would have stopped right there. I suspect the Menards spec page is a typo at 8" flue. Their spec page for the SF3100 does not list a exhaust dimension at all. I also was under the impression that the forced draft blower was only used when the thermostat was calling for heat and perhaps start up, otherwise natural draft - I could be mistaken however.

I agree.

With none of my $$ in the game I would highly encourage you to purchase one and report back ;-)

Yes...

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I can say with certainty that a Draft Induction Blower is essential for a legit forced air furnace. Anything less is a knife at a gun fight. A furnace that operates like a stove does not use fuel as efficiently as an induction furnace.

I can see how forced induction would be very useful the first 5-10 minutes of lighting, before the natural draft is strong. But in a proper install the natural draft is stronger than necessary for over 95% of the burn. That's why it's necessary to limit the amount of intake air for most of the burn. Forced induction's not going to do a whit of good.

 

[Highbeam]

I can see how forced induction would be very useful the first 5-10 minutes of lighting, before the natural draft is strong. But in a proper install the natural draft is stronger than necessary for over 95% of the burn. That's why it's necessary to limit the amount of intake air for most of the burn. Forced induction's not going to do a whit of good.

Of course it will do good. It's just like a supercharger or turbo on an engine. More air means more fuel can be burned which means more heat can be delivered to the space for a given firebox size.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Of course it will do good. It's just like a supercharger or turbo on an engine. More air means more fuel can be burned which means more heat can be delivered to the space for a given firebox size.

If the fire needs more air you can just open the intake further.

 

[Highbeam]

If the fire needs more air you can just open the intake further.

Maybe you don't understand. Have you never heard of a blast furnace or a blacksmiths forge? Whatever you can get with natural draft, you can more with forced air! There are tradeoffs of course and I would prefer natural draft for several reasons but the fact is that more fuel can be burned faster with forced intake.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Here is a screenshot from the specs from menards.View attachment 199941

laynes69, Why are you looking at anything but thr Kuuma? If you had a Kuuma from the start and this happened it would have been covered under warranty . Spend the money and get what you want/need. The caddy has proved inferior , So get with a small local manufacturer , that will treat you right.

 

[laynes69]

As I've said before, I do not believe the Kuuma would keep up when the weather would turn cold. Just because it has low emissions does not mean it will heat anything. We have a large Victorian home with over 42 windows. While I have the money to purchase one, I'm not going to spend almost 6,000 dollars either. At this point, I'll probably repair what I have since life has recently dealt me a bad hand (not the furnace) and see where these new models go. When I do purchase something, I will be looking closely at the design and build. As far as being phase 1 or 2, it doesn't matter to me. Anything at this point blows away what I used to have. Just because something isn't a Kuuma doesn't mean it's inferior.