Innie vs outie

[bbc557ci]

Once again I'm asking for some advice. This time on a chiney. I plan on installing a cast or soap stone free standing stove in my place. Min. chimney height to be code compliant will need to be +,- 21 feet, from the top of the stove.

I realize that running the chimney from the top of the stove straight up through the ceiling and roof would be the ideal install. If I do it that way, there would be about 11 LF of chimney inside, and 8-9 feet after it pops through the roof. The room where the stove will go has a vaulted ceiling. Problem might arise with the location of the roof rafters/ceiling joists in relation to the chimney. I might need to use a couple of 45s to get around a rafter and I'd rather not do that. I could cut the rafter and reenforce it with cross members. I was a carpenter by trade for 25 years, prior to back surgery ( but don't wanna get into more of a project if I don't have to.

SOooooo, I'm wondering if the chiney would draft ok if I ran it up the out side. ie stove pipe 3-4 up from the stove top, then 90 to the ouside, then a "T", and up about 16 feet with insulated double wall. I'd probably build a chase around the chimney in the spring. And could insulate the chase, if necessary. Another advantage to this method, is it would be easy to pull the cap from the bottom of the T to check the inside of the chimney.

If I go to the outside, would there be sufficient draft ?

Thanks in advance )

 

[Highbeam]

The outside cold chimney is the worst place for it both in performance and in aesthetics. Will it still work? Yes, it is legal and many people do it. But you can also drive your car with four flat tires.

Can the stove be relocated on the floor to avoid the rafter? I had to move mine away from the back wall about 4 inches to miss a rafter. Totally worth it for superior draft and cleaning.

 

[nshif]

Your better off staying inside and will cost less then most of it outside with the more expensive Class A. I had to jog mine to miss a truss and it drafts just fine and doesnt look bad.

 

[begreen]

An interior pipe is definitely better, especially if you can make a straight shot down. If it's a rear exit stove, a cleanout tee can still be installed. But even if it's top exit, the last length can be a telescoping piece that makes it easy to lift up and place a bag underneath.

Seems like it's time to drop a plumb line down and find out exactly where the centerline of the pipe will fall. Have you purchased the stove yet? If not, you have the option of getting a different stove or moving it slightly. My stove exceeds corner wall clearances as a result of where the pipe came down. I can live with that.

 

[bbc557ci]

Your better off staying inside and will cost less then most of it outside with the more expensive Class A. I had to jog mine to miss a truss and it drafts just fine and doesnt look bad.

Being a dumb azz noob, while looking at stoves I haven't been paying close attention to the location of the pipe collar in relation to the rear of the stove. Some brochures give rear clearence of the stove, and some give rear clearence of the pipe. But for the most part, the pipe is pretty much as close to the wall as the rear of the stove is..... +,-

The side of the rafter is just about 16 inches from the inside of the sheet rock (should a plumb bob be dropped). 6" ID Type A pipe I'm familiar with has an OD of about 9 inches. If clearence to a combustable is say, 1 to 2 inches, I don't think installing the chimney between the wall and 1st rafter will be doable. Given that, either the stove needs to be moved further from the wall. Or I need a jog in the chimney.......

I was talking installation with a retailer yesterday and we discussed the possibility of joging the chimney. He mentioned using 2-45s to get around the rafter. I'd like to stay away from 45s, as it seems 45s might make chimney cleaning kind of a PIA. Is there such a thing as "angle adjustable" double wall pipe? Or a flexable double wall ?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

I see your dilemma now. What stoves are you considering? Is it a castiron stove? Also, is this a flat wall install or a corner installation?

For easier figuring, the ceiling support box will likely be 12" sq., so 6" to center. That would put its CL about 7-8" off the wall in the first bay, which is too close for double-wall pipe (needs min of 6" clearance). So in the second bay the CL would be about 22" based on dimensions given. If this is a top exit steel stove, it also needs some rear wall clearance so this may not need an offset if the stove can be moved a bit further into the room. Otherwise I can see why you are considering cutting the rafter and reinforcing it with cross members. This is a PITA, but the improvement in stove performance is worth thinking about and will require less class A pipe which will be a savings.

 

[bbc557ci]

BeGreen -

It is a flat wall installation, stoves in mind are cast. Room is pretty good size, about 29 x 16 with a vaulted ceiling. Guess I could move the stove out from the wall more than the min. clearence stated/required if necessary. Had I considered this project during warmer weather, chopping through roof rafters and such would not be as much of an issue. Hind sight is indeed 20/20.

I went to a dealer today and got a look at a Morso 3610. Came home and I did a search here, and those who have them seem to really like them. To me , looks wise, they are kind'a plain, maybe even homely (please, no offense to anyone ;-) ). The guy quoted me what I think is a good price $1,795.00. That's ALLOT lower than prices of the other stoves I've been looking at. Hhmmmm.......

As mentioned in my other thread, stove chices are as seen below and all are cast. Stoves are not listed in preference. Tops in looks/asthetics is the Mansfield. After a search, members here have nothing to say but good things about the Quads. So I am kind of leaning to the Quad, but still have some pondering to do ;o)

Hearthstone Mansfield
Hearthstone Bennington

Jotul F500 Oslo
Jotul F600 Firelight

Quadrafire Cumberland Gap
Quadrafire Isle Royale

Morso 3610


edit: There is no attic over the area where the chimney will go thru the roof. Hell, if there was, that would make roof frame mods less of a PIA.

edit again :red: .... the Hearthstones are soap stones not cast, which you know. My brain is turning to mush ........

 

[Highbeam]

If you end up putting the pipe outside of that first rafter then you will have enough clearance to the wall to use single wall pipe. Single wall pipe is cheaper and smaller. Also available with those univeral angle deals. I used vertical double wall stovepipe to reduce clearances.

Do you like rebuilding stoves? My major turnoff from the cast iron stoves was the need to rebuild them at some point when they start leaking and running away. The Hearthstones don't require that.

 

[begreen]

I think you have a nice selection of stoves there. One other stove you might consider is the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6. It is top exhaust with the centerline of the flue about 8.5" in from the back of the stove. So if this stove sat a little more than a foot from the wall, it would look quite intentional. And it's a good heater too. For more info read up on the PE Summit threads.

 

[bbc557ci]

I think you have a nice selection of stoves there. One other stove you might consider is the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6. It is top exhaust with the centerline of the flue about 8.5" in from the back of the stove. So if this stove sat a little more than a foot from the wall, it would look quite intentional. And it's a good heater too. For more info read up on the PE Summit threads.

I checked clearences for the T6 and what you mention is right. Would fit in quite nicely. I'll check the T6 out. Thanks !!

 

[sgsstat]

I have been struggling with a new 3610 for a month now and it continues to disappoint. Starting is an issue; it requires a large pile of kindling and you have to leave to door open a crack for 15 minutes or so. Even when the flue is hot, opening the door often allows smoke into the room.

Sustained burning is usually OK -- we have found using the damper is very useful in controlling and reducing wood consumption.

We have heated with wood for 27 years with non EPA stoves (Jotul 118 and Upland 207 which was replaced by the new 3610), both were (are) hassle-free. Not so with the 3610.

 

[bbc557ci]

If you end up putting the pipe outside of that first rafter then you will have enough clearance to the wall to use single wall pipe. Single wall pipe is cheaper and smaller. Also available with those univeral angle deals. I used vertical double wall stovepipe to reduce clearances.

Do you like rebuilding stoves? My major turnoff from the cast iron stoves was the need to rebuild them at some point when they start leaking and running away. The Hearthstones don't require that.

Good point about being able to use the single wall, Highbeam. Going outside the 1st rafter would put the pipe 20-21 inches from the sheet rock wall, and I could angle the stove back some. Plus if I used single wall I could stick a magnetic thermometer on the pipe to monitor pipe temp.

Seems like soap stone would/should last al long long time if cared for. But if a stone does happen to break, then what ? Anyways, I'm starting to like the idea of a quicker heat up time of the cast stoves. But still on the fence. So many advantages/disadvantages to each brand/type. I kind of feel like a kid in a candy store, 'cept the candy is expensive as hell LOL.

 

[bbc557ci]

I have been struggling with a new 3610 for a month now and it continues to disappoint. Starting is an issue; it requires a large pile of kindling and you have to leave to door open a crack for 15 minutes or so. Even when the flue is hot, opening the door often allows smoke into the room.

Sustained burning is usually OK -- we have found using the damper is very useful in controlling and reducing wood consumption.

We have heated with wood for 27 years with non EPA stoves (Jotul 118 and Upland 207 which was replaced by the new 3610), both were (are) hassle-free. Not so with the 3610.

I am a complete noob and therefore by no means qualified to offer any suggestions. But I'm sure Morso owner operators here will chime in.

Where in CNY are you ? I'm in Pompey. Think I have the smallest house in town )

 

[bbc557ci]

BeGreen - I did a 280 mile road trip yesterday and got a look at the PE T6. Looks like an install would work out just fine, with no jogs in the chimney.

3 cf fire box which is just about right. The sales rep said I should get a 10 hr. overnight burn. With the exception of maybe the Mansfield, the fire box on the T6 seems a little deeper than most. So would be good if/when I wanted to load N/S. I see it has a steel box surrounded with cast. Anyone know of a potential issue with that? Seems like the outer cast would be less prone to expansion/contraction and therefore less prone to cracking (noobie think'n).

It also has a different 2ndary burn set up than what I've seen. Other stoves I've looked at have about 4 SS tubes spanning E/W at the top of the fire box. At the top of the fire box it looks like the T6 has a SS plate. There are two rows of holes E/W at the front of the plate. And a single row of holes N/S down the center. Will this type of secondary be as affective as the multiple tube type ?

I like the tove, but am a bit concerned about the secondary burn set up. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks !

p.s. Oh, it's a proud day for me. I see I've been promoted to "Burning Chunk"

 

[begreen]

Wow, that's diligent. Good to hear that you can do a straight up install, it will function great.

There are a ton of posts and many PE Summit owners here. The Alderlea T6 is the same stove, but instead of an outer second skin of steel, the T6 has cast iron. This is mostly for aesthetics, the inner workings of the stove are steel. Tom Oyen has a lot of PE information on his website: www.chimneysweeponline.com that you may find helpful. Long burns are not an exaggeration with the PE Spectrum or the Summit. They're good heaters. If you have specific questions about the stove that aren't anwered by your search, start a new thread with Summit or Alderlea in the title.

 

[bbc557ci]

I've been loking his website over "http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/". There is good info there. One of the "goodies" are charts providing comparisons of 3-4 stoves I'm looking into. The T6 has some nice features. I'll start a thread on it.

Thanks again

 

[Highbeam]

You shouldn't have to really "care" for the soapstone. That's a strongpoint. If a stone were to break then a new one can be installed. I don't want to have to do it but many folks have done it.

If fast heat is important and the T6 will fit your hearth situation then I would jump on it. The stove should be cheaper, has a great following (it's just a summit with a tux on), and the welded steel box should give a long life. My smaller home would be better suited to the spectrucm box or the T5 which is also a very long burning stove.

Tom's site also sells the soapstones so you can compare easily. He sells both because (IMO) they are different products for different applications but both brands PE and HS are top notch in what they make. So - blonde or brunette?

 

[bbc557ci]

HighBeam - Thinking maybe slamming the stove with a log while loading or something like that might break a piece of stone. Guess you'd really have to slam the stone pretty darn hard to break it though, I would think. Just more things about wood stoves I don't really know about.

Besides you and others that have them saying they are great heaters, IMO the soap stone stoves are really stunning appearance wise. When my wife saw the Mansfield and Heritage her comment was "WOW, looks like they belong in a mansion". I agreed with her. They would fit right in, and possibly improve a decore. But I do like the idea of the quicker heat of cast. And since we don't live in a mansion, and as it appears the installation would be pretty straight forward, the T6 is at the top the short list.

Thanks

 

[Highbeam]

Most of the inside of the HS Hertage is not soapstone. The side door is iron on the inside, there is a steel bash plate for the logs to hit which covers the opposite side. The big cast iron secondary manifold consumes all but a small portion of the rear, the top is all baffle, and the front is all glass. The floor is even mostly ash grate. I like rock walls and stone work so the looks were a major selling point for this stove.

This time of year, the 24/7 burn time in my poorly insulated home. I often find myself crippled by the soapstone. We leave on day trips to visit family and the fire dies after 5 hours or so. The house gets cold quickly and when we return with about 3-4 hours until bedtime there is just enough time to heat my stove room from 63-72 so we spend a lot of time with a roaring fire heating the stone. I can easily relight the fire from the old coals but the soapstone absorbs the heat .

Once we tighten and insulate the house this won't be such a problem as the stove will maintain the temperature. For now though, and for these evening warm up burns, the quick heat of a steel stove would be nice.