Insert Install. Do I need a liner with existing pipe?

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AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
Existing firebox is about 20 years old. Fire brick lined, metal flue damper area firebrick bottom. 48 wide, 35 high, 20 deep. Looking to put an Osburn 3500 or Hearthstone Clydesdale in. This is not a masonry chimney. It is simply a 10 inch double walled pipe straight up and out to a cap. About 20 feet long. Want to heat my 2100sqft home in Alaska. Primary wood, with natural gas intermittent when it gets super cold.

20220908_085351.jpg 20220908_085512.jpg

Can this be direct fitted with an adapter I do need to spring for the liner as well?

Thank you in advance.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,256
central pa
Existing firebox is about 20 years old. Fire brick lined, metal flue damper area firebrick bottom. 48 wide, 35 high, 20 deep. Looking to put an Osburn 3500 or Hearthstone Clydesdale in. This is not a masonry chimney. It is simply a 10 inch double walled pipe straight up and out to a cap. About 20 feet long. Want to heat my 2100sqft home in Alaska. Primary wood, with natural gas intermittent when it gets super cold. View attachment 298843
View attachment 298844


Can this be direct fitted with an adapter I do need to spring for the liner as well?

Thank you in advance.
Chances are you are not allowed to install an insert in that prefab fireplace at all. What model is the fireplace?
 

AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
Chances are you are not allowed to install an insert in that prefab fireplace at all. What model is the fireplace?
There's no discernable model or info markings anywhere. Plan is to rip it out either way. I would imagine I could still use the existing 10" chimney for an insert with a liner through it? I'm going to start remove ng the front panels today and see if it has any info on it.

Starting to realize this may not be as easy as I thought. If it's not an option, what are my options? Primary goal is HEAT. Sounds like I may need to be looking at a "Fireplace" and not an Insert, that still provides a closed box and blower.

EDIT: Majestic SHR48 is my fireplace. Found the plate covered in soot inside the top of the box.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,256
central pa
There's no discernable model or info markings anywhere. Plan is to rip it out either way. I would imagine I could still use the existing 10" chimney for an insert with a liner through it? I'm going to start remove ng the front panels today and see if it has any info on it.

Starting to realize this may not be as easy as I thought. If it's not an option, what are my options? Primary goal is HEAT. Sounds like I may need to be looking at a "Fireplace" and not an Insert, that still provides a closed box and blower.

EDIT: Majestic SHR48 is my fireplace. Found the plate covered in soot inside the top of the box.
You absolutely cannot remove the fireplace and put an insert in the opening. An insert is meant to go into a working woodburning fireplace only
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,256
central pa
Read the top line of the second column. Inserts are not allowed

Screenshot_20220909-151958.png
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,256
central pa
Yup...Thank you very much. Sounds like I just need a completely new fireplace to achieve what I need. The current one is pointless.
Either that or a freestanding stove in a different location
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,285
Long Island NY
There are zero clearance fireplaces that heat well - or so I've read here. Thos could, I believe, be installed in the hole here after the current one is taken out.

I don't know enough about them so others will shoot me down or provide more concrete suggestions.
 
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AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
There are zero clearance fireplaces that heat well - or so I've read here. Thos could, I believe, be installed in the hole here after the current one is taken out.

I don't know enough about them so others will shoot me down or provide more concrete suggestions.
Yeah that's kind of what I'm looking at now doing some research. Unfortunately none of them seem to meet EPA HHV standards. I was hoping to take advantage this year. Freestanding is another option. I don't have another location for it but I could potentially remove the existing fireplace and use the same chimney way. The hearth comes out far enough that I believe it could sit up on the pedestal halfway into the existing architecture. I will probably go the zero clearance route at this point.

20220909_172056.jpg
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,285
Long Island NY
I like a freestanding stove. But you wanted heat, and that is possible also with a ZC. I thought there was one with 75 pct efficiency, but I may be mistaken. @begreen?
 

AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
I like a freestanding stove. But you wanted heat, and that is possible also with a ZC. I thought there was one with 75 pct efficiency, but I may be mistaken. @begreen?
Yes. There is two essentially the same model different mfg names. Superior and Monticeto. They're about 10-11k by the time add the doors...does t make it worth it to me for the tax credit. Cost is a factor. I do love the superior wct6940 though, exactly what I want but above my price range. We are getting our PFD money soon (the permanent fund dividend) which is good this year, the second barrier to that model is there is no dealer here in Alaska for either EPA midels
 
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EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
3,553
SE North Carolina
Yes. There is two essentially the same model different mfg names. Superior and Monticeto. They're about 10-11k by the time add the doors...does t make it worth it to me for the tax credit. Cost is a factor. I do love the superior wct6940 though, exactly what I want but above my price range. We are getting our PFD money soon (the permanent fund dividend) which is good this year, the second barrier to that model is there is no dealer here in Alaska for either EPA midels
The new IRA act capped the tax credit at 2000$ a year. You are really looking for a whole new system. I could rip it all out and build an alcove but that’s a lot of work. I vote free standing stove.
 

AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
Deciding to go ZC. Just don't want to lose more space in the room. Infant starting to crawl etc. The biggest question I have is this existing chimney I have. If the ZC recommend 8" class A (like 20 manufactures approved, Valcourt Waterloo) can a bigger diameter be used? I would understand smaller is a no go. I cannot seem to identify what I have from the exterior. Seems I have to take a section apart. Was quoted 3300 just for a 20ft straight up no bends chimney replace. Obviously if I could source it myself or retain the use of the existing that's the rout I want to go. Seems to be 10 inch ID and 12 OD This is my chimney situation:

Attic upward
20220913_191525.jpg
Attic looking down through ceiling

20220913_191502.jpg 20220913_191916.jpg 20220913_191922.jpg
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,256
central pa
Deciding to go ZC. Just don't want to lose more space in the room. Infant starting to crawl etc. The biggest question I have is this existing chimney I have. If the ZC recommend 8" class A (like 20 manufactures approved, Valcourt Waterloo) can a bigger diameter be used? I would understand smaller is a no go. I cannot seem to identify what I have from the exterior. Seems I have to take a section apart. Was quoted 3300 just for a 20ft straight up no bends chimney replace. Obviously if I could source it myself or retain the use of the existing that's the rout I want to go. Seems to be 10 inch ID and 12 OD This is my chimney situation:

Attic upward
View attachment 298995
Attic looking down through ceiling

View attachment 298994 View attachment 298996 View attachment 298997
No the chimney needs to be exactly what is specified in the manual
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,422
South Puget Sound, WA
Yeah that's kind of what I'm looking at now doing some research. Unfortunately none of them seem to meet EPA HHV standards. I was hoping to take advantage this year. Freestanding is another option. I don't have another location for it but I could potentially remove the existing fireplace and use the same chimney way. The hearth comes out far enough that I believe it could sit up on the pedestal halfway into the existing architecture. I will probably go the zero clearance route at this point.
There are many ZC fireplaces that heat well and meet the current EPA Phase III 2020 emissions standards. However, if you mean qualifying for the 26% tax credit, there is only one at this time that I know of. That is the large Astria Montecito Estate fireplace.

 
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AlaskaNorth

New Member
Sep 8, 2022
21
Alaska
Picked up a Valcourt Waterloo. Got lucky my local dealer had a cancellation. Otherwise lead time was 1 year.....Will be here in about a week.