Offset Liner

[Stigander]

Greetings, and Happy Holidays

Appreciate all the helpful information here. Have been reading, and wanted to check in on a stove and liner install.

Planning on a Woodstock Ideal Steel*, rear exit for installation in front of an existing fireplace (28.5" lintel so min leg height, no ash pan).

The main issue is we need a liner (he flue is clay lined but it looks to be 10" tile, ~20' above fireplace, but I still need to measure both precisely)

The kink, literally, is a 12" offset** 6 up the flue from the damper (2' to the top of the smoke chamber then a 4' slanted run to a bend where it continues straight up).

I understand there are schools of thought on what is best but where we need to install at least some flex I plan to install it end to end for continuity.

Given 6' to cover a 12" offset the angle required is seemingly fairly small. I'm not clear though on how much liner flex is required to cleanly negotiate that bend.

From reading, .006" seems to be generally regarded as reasonable, albeit while calling for gentle cleaning with a poly brush. From how it's rolled for delivery it would seem workable enough with a bit of push/pull persuasion, but with no direct experience this is my primary question for the good people of hearth.com...


Beyond that, from what I've read 'roll your own burrito' makes for a lighter package overall than pre-insulated. Is there any reason given the bend we should specifically avoid or prefer either that or pre-insulated?

I'm comfortable building and repairing stuff, but would also happily hire out getting the liner installed and the stove connected. Anyone in or can recommend someone that works in the midcoast Maine area?

Any related feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance



** Notes and photos if you want to take a look/potentially check my work

Photos at https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=Z3pMckpvY09QSmthZFNJTmxsVjFZMFpHaVhyRmd3

Interior stonework and exterior brickwork are both 72" wide.
Fireplace opening is centered in that with the top of the smoke chamber seemingly centered over the inner hearth, or perhaps just slightly offset toward the main flue side.

Dual-flue chimney is 32" wide and aligned with the inner edge of the lower stone/brickwork.

Assuming the flues are symmetrical, that's 16" each and 8" to the center of one flue.
Add 4" to get from 32" to the center of the hearth at 36" and that would seemingly make for a 12" offset.

Outer hearth is 22.5" deep, which we understand we need to extend and insulate to the spec in the manual, plus either shielding or replacing the mantel.


* To be honest we're partial to cast iron, but only so many stoves will fit. I'd be fine with the Progress Hybrid, wife not so much aesthetically, and where the stove is my idea and she's supporting it, simple and functionally excellent is beautiful... (and cheaper doesn't hurt)

I've seen people trying to coax Woodstock into wrapping an IS-like stove in cast iron, but no apparent references to any kind of plans. Should you happen to have any insight...

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Somerset Stove and Stone did my install up in NW Maine. They’re located in Oakland, Maine. Wayne did a good install and he was a nice guy to work with.

 

[Max W]

Mike at https://www.headoftidemasonry.com/ does do liners. Just two weeks ago they reflashed the brick chimney to our boiler and some other chimney repair work. Nice surprise when it came in well below the estimate. He’s not far from Belfast and has some big projects south of Thomaston this winter. I think you would find them easy to work with, skilled and professional if you can get them.

 

[EbS-P]

I wrapped and installed 23’ of liner with about a 12 inch offset. It took two people up too and one on the bottom to get it down. A pre insulated may have been easier as the oddest was not the issue little bitts of mortar were.

As far as stove choices. Did you mention how many sq ft and the house layout? After looks a N/S or side loader would be my second priority and 2.4+ cu ft. There just aren’t many rear vent under 28 inches. Look at the jotul F45/F55. I ended up with an insert in my second fireplace

 

[KDubU]

After having done a pre-insulated beast of a liner, I suggest you use something mechanical to help you. I used a hand winch and pulled it up from below, that part went fairly smooth all the way. I have also seen a video on a guy who used a powered winch attached to a wood platform built over top of the chimney opening on the roof. Same as me, he went from the bottom up which is not the most common but using a winch makes it a lot easier. The video in question he does it very slowly with someone at the bottom to help guide and that’s it.

Note - both mine and the gentleman in the video installed pre-insulated liners that are nice but a lot heavier so not so easy to go top down.

 

[Stigander]

Thanks all, appreciate the replies.

Somerset came up on a CSIA search, but the endorsement definitely adds weight. Similarly appreciate the feedback on Head of Tide Masonry.

EbS-P, your experience just the type of thing I was thinking might happen.

The house is not particularly large but it's not small, 28x43 IIRC, two floors stacked, stove will be on one end of the largely open first floor. IS is more than we need really but as noted, options are somewhat limited.

Also, we have heat pumps, so if it's not cold, we would only be running the stove because we wanted a fire.

Appreciate the suggestion on the F55, though it looks like the rear exit center height is just a bit too high at 26.75.

Pulling bottom up with a hoist or pulley & weight is something I was considering. Seems reasonable enough in the abstract but with no direct experience I wanted to check in before potentially getting stuck with my assumption hanging out...

Assuming a quality liner at say .006 and a decent job attaching the pulling cone, any general thoughts on how hard you can safely pull without damaging the liner or flue?



PS: My original post has an error, or two largely offsetting errors actually - it's a 4' run to cover the offset from the bend in the flue to the top of the smoke chamber, not the 6' total from the bend to the eventual snout I had written above.

That said, the liner will also no doubt be tight to one side of the flue at the bend and the other side at the smoke chamber, so the actual offset is really more like 9" over 4', then 1 1/2" over 2 1/2'.

So, pretty much comes out in the wash, but for the detail oriented...

 

[KDubU]

The Jotul F55 has a short-leg option which is what I purchased as I needed to be slightly lower for rear exit. Now with the short legs, mid-center of rear exit is 22.5”.

 

[EbS-P]

27.25 opening height.

https://www.jotul.com/sites/usa/files/products/139009_A%20Manual%2C%20F%2055%20V2_2020.pdf

 

[Stigander]

Interesting. I looked at two sites and neither mentioned that, but obviously didn't do all the reading - thanks

 

[bholler]

Thanks all, appreciate the replies.

Somerset came up on a CSIA search, but the endorsement definitely adds weight. Similarly appreciate the feedback on Head of Tide Masonry.

EbS-P, your experience just the type of thing I was thinking might happen.

The house is not particularly large but it's not small, 28x43 IIRC, two floors stacked, stove will be on one end of the largely open first floor. IS is more than we need really but as noted, options are somewhat limited.

Also, we have heat pumps, so if it's not cold, we would only be running the stove because we wanted a fire.

Appreciate the suggestion on the F55, though it looks like the rear exit center height is just a bit too high at 26.75.

Pulling bottom up with a hoist or pulley & weight is something I was considering. Seems reasonable enough in the abstract but with no direct experience I wanted to check in before potentially getting stuck with my assumption hanging out...

Assuming a quality liner at say .006 and a decent job attaching the pulling cone, any general thoughts on how hard you can safely pull without damaging the liner or flue?



PS: My original post has an error, or two largely offsetting errors actually - it's a 4' run to cover the offset from the bend in the flue to the top of the smoke chamber, not the 6' total from the bend to the eventual snout I had written above.

That said, the liner will also no doubt be tight to one side of the flue at the bend and the other side at the smoke chamber, so the actual offset is really more like 9" over 4', then 1 1/2" over 2 1/2'.

So, pretty much comes out in the wash, but for the detail oriented...

With a light wall liner not all that hard honestly it's pretty easy to pop that crimped seam or just crush the liner

 

[Stigander]

Thanks bholler