Installation Questions

[yooper08]

So my journey started last winter when I had a CSIA sweep inspect my two fireplaces as I started to consider an insert, plus I had no idea when the last time they were properly inspected since we bought the home 2 summers ago. At that time, they made it sounded easy (both flues were straight down), no problems (famous words).

So, I went out and purchased my insert and a lining kit. Planned on doing it myself throughout the summer, wasn't able to get to it, plus wanted to bring someone out to inspect again to determine what needed to be done, which happened today. Now I have some questions and the initial results are making me doubt whether I should do this at all and just sell the insert.

First, supposedly an OAK is required in Michigan. I had never heard that about MI and can't seem to find it online; I wasn't planning on this. Any others from Michigan have some insight on this, is this true? The fireplace/hearth was originally built with an OAK into the firebox (the other fireplace, however, doesn't have one), and I know codes are codes, but my fear is that it draws on the east side of the house (generally low pressure area due to westerly winds) and is underneath a deck (probably makes low pressure environment worse).

At the same time, I actually have a duct to the outside that feeds the utility room but is also connected to the bathroom adjacent to the hearth room. Not sure if that would suffice for outside air.

For the chimney, apparently there's no wythe wall between the two flues. It was suggested that a letter from the liner mfg stating it can be installed in a chimney with no wythe wall be available. How common is this and how common is it that a mfg will not allow it? Also found out that the flue I want to install in is not straight down and may require knocking some stuff out.

The only components I don't have that they were going to provide was the insulation kit and minor hardware (ie clamps and whatnot). Including the block off plate, notching bricks and damper to bring liner in, the proposal was $2500+. Does this seem reasonable? I'm not an expert but seemed high given others' experiences.

Any insight/thoughts welcomed. Thinking about reaching out to Rockford (they're in my town but not where my liner is from) to see if they had any local recommendations to get a second opinion.

 

[kennyp2339]

From what I can tell from viewing multiple threads on insert oaks is that your not going to get a true oak for an insert, you can have outside make up air for the insert, but nothing to fully connect to it, as far as the chimney you can install the liner (insulated) but since its a shared flue the other fire place goes out of service. I don't know what you money situation is but $2500 seems reasonable to me, liner, install, block off plate and inspection.

 

[yooper08]

The OAK for the insert, at least for the one I have, is an optional part that hooks up directly. What I'm trying to find out is what are the requirements in MI. Is it really required (first I had heard this) and if so, can that makeup air can be from an adjacent room as opposed to the room directly? Given the research on OAKs, I don't really want to do this, especially in my situation. If I have to, fine.

Without the wythe wall, is it really considered a shared flue even though there are two clay flues?

Money's fine, just seemed high since I was supplying the liner components is all. I thought I remember others coming here asking if $1000 was fair, but I might be confusing it with something else.

 

[mol1jb]

Who did you hear that an OAK was required?

 

[yooper08]

A CSIA sweep, said it was a state requirement.

I was able to find an online copy of state mechanical code. Seems to me in Section 700, combustion air can be drawn from inside and/or outside. In that section there's a shout out to Section 202 for the definition of unconfined space, which I'm pretty sure my room meets. Not sure exactly how to calculate input BTUs, everything I know is output BTUs. Also my house was built in 1978, it's not of unusually tight construction

https://archive.org/stream/gov.mi.mechanical/mi_mechanical_djvu.txt

 

[kennyp2339]

I wish I could say you should be fine, but its really up to the inspector on their interpretation of the code, also I didn't know you were supplying the majority of all equipment / material for the install, so 2g's does seem a little high.

 

[mol1jb]

I wish I could say you should be fine, but its really up to the inspector on their interpretation of the code, also I didn't know you were supplying the majority of all equipment / material for the install, so 2g's does seem a little high.

Like kenny said, get the final word from the inspector assigned to your install. That will be your definitive answer.

 

[yooper08]

Yeah, I figured it would come down to interpretation. I'm not trying to disagree with it either, just that this is the first time I've heard that requirement for MI and reading the code I posted, it seems to me that inside air is allowable if the area is large enough.

Any others from MI encountered this?

 

[mol1jb]

Easiest thing to do would be call your building department and ask the person who would be inspecting the install what he would require. You would have an answer and know how to proceed in 5 minutes.