Installing a Hearthstone Stove - first ever experience wth a wood stove

[Brian C.]

So here is a bit of background: There is a long story behind the house I am working on, it's my first house, and I had no idea what a floor joist was called if that gives you any idea of the experience I had getting int to all this. The house needed a ton of work, I ended up having to take it nearly down to the foundation, and that needed work too. Basically where I am at now, is I need heat, the HVAC install has been extremely difficult for me to figure out, I've wanted to rebuild this house as efficient as possible, and one of the things I wanted to do for a while now was get a good wood burner installed for heating the house.

The situation: There are lots of ways people do it as I've begun to learn, essentially I think my best bet considering what I have to work with, is to use the existing flue of the masonry chimney. Technically I don't think I have to line it, but, I'm thinking it would be a wise thing to do from the get go.

Getting on the roof to measure the flue and look down it has been quite the endeavor in and of itself, I actually built a drawbridge on top of some scaffold frames, I'm kinda proud of it, haha. So looking down the flue today, I discovered it is not straight by a long shot, so I figure I'm going to have to use a flex liner. Measuring the actual flue tile coming out of the concrete cap, the actual opening of the tile, is 5 1/2" wide by almost 10" long. Doing some research I was going to get a 6" flexible kit with a Tee at the bottom so I can use the existing ash clean out. At first I thought that I was going to have to bust out some of the masonry to get the Tee into the chimney, but then I found some kits that had a Tee with a removable snout and a band strap which is a great idea, I guess I'm just skeptical of how that band strap would hold up over time and after years of cleanings, so I wondered if there are any other solid solutions for a Tee that would allow me to install it without breaking the hole out bigger.

Since I have an existing masonry chimney that does have an intact albeit slightly cracked flue liner, theoretically, I could just pipe the stove right to that and let er rip by code if I'm not mistaken, however, again I think the liner would be wise, but I'm posting this for any and all information that folks would like to add. Ok, so assuming that a liner is going to be the wise way to go, I've got a few issues to work out. I think I'm gong to forgo insulating a metal liner if I go that route, it doesn't seem necessary and that way the masonry flue will be able to heat up and hold the draw longer than as it would with the metal liner being insulated in my mind.

So, assuming all of that thus far, the biggest issue I see is that the output on the back of the stove, which I just picked up today (holy jeez was that thing heavy, I blew a wheel out on my dolly, haha, and by god does my back hurt.) it is a Hearthstone, and I'm kind of mystified as to what the exact model is, on the label is has two listed, it just says Hearthstone I and under that, Hearthstone II with a check box next to each, but neither one is checked, for Hearthstone I to the right the label says wood, to the right of where it says Hearthstone II it says wood/coal, I'm assuming it's one or the other, but I'd like to be sure somehow. The output of the stove is 6". So therein lies potential problem #1, the existing masonry flue is not that large around, so I can't fit a full 6" round flex liner down the existing chimney. I'm not sure what to do for that. The existing chimney is quite long, the chimney foundation goes all the way down to the basement floor, and measuring from the hole in the side of the existing chimney ( there is a galvanized 6" round pipe sticking out the side ) about 4 feet off the basement floor, all the way up to the top of the flue liner exiting the chimney cap, the distance is about 34 1/2 feet. (the house was originally a story and a half, i rebuilt the house as a two story with a 10/12 pitch roof, I had to extend the chimney about another 18 feet from what it was, it's quite tall now. )

I've never done any of this before, so I tried to provide as much information as possible to be helpful, hopefully it's not too much. A big thanks to everyone willing to read all of that and help toward how to get this stove installed properly

 

[webby3650]

If the flue liner that you have is cracked, then it is not code compliant. Did you extend the clay flue liner when you extended the chimney? When you line it, just use the tee with the removable snout, I have never heard of a problem with them failing over time. You need to insulate the liner if the clay flue is cracked, depending on the stove, you can use a 5.5" liner to allow room for the insulation. The masonry flue will take forever to heat up and will likely never draw better than a lined insulated flue. Can you post a pic of the stove?

 

[begreen]

Welcome Brian. If the stove has a double-door it is probably the HI, single door, the HII. The old Hearthstone manual is located here:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Hearthstone_HI_and_HII/

If it's an HI it should be connected to 8" pipe which may mean the tiles in the chimney need to be busted out if they are cracked. Then an oval 8" insulated liner can be pulled. The HII can connect to 6".

With the cracked tiles, it sounds like you need an insulated liner. Simpson make an insulated oval liner that may work here. Look up oval Duraliner Oval Flex to get an idea of the product. It's 4.75" x 7.75" OD for 6".
(broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/multiple_items.asp?cc=6LDuraLiner)

Depending on the flue offsets and mortar ooze at the joints, another option for the HII might be to put in an insulated, 5.5" flex liner that has been slightly ovalized.

 

[Brian C.]

@ webby3650

Half of it is cracked with little hairline cracks, the older portion of the existing chimney. So you are saying that in and of itself makes it non-code?

Yes, I did extend the clay flue liner, well I had the mason do it, when I extended the chimney.

Tee with removable snout, ok, do you or anyone else know of any that might be more durable for shiggles? Or does none exist aside from the band strap type?

So, you are saying that not only is the existing flue not code compliant because of hairline cracks, but that also that necessitates the liner being insulated? Well, if that be the case, it only excasserbates the issue of the stove output being a full 6" round, and my existing masonry chimney only having an opening of 5 1/2" by 9 1/2". Which already I'm unsure of how to approach and meet code.

(I do have few pics that i snapped today on my phone, working on getting those over to my computer and I'll be posting them relatively shortly here.)

 

[Brian C.]

@ BeGreen

Thank you for the warm welcome

I'm not sure which one it is, I'll check those manuals out in a second as I was going to go looking for the manual, thanks for the links!
It does have two doors, one for the front load, which is slightly larger and a side door for side loading. I'll get those pics up in a minute here which might help to clarify.

I would really hate to have to do any masonry work on this chimney aside from possibly having to bust a little out for the Tee, I paid 1400 bucks just recently to have the chimney built up, and I'm broke with no heat here.

An oval liner might be just what I need. I was wondering if by code I could reduce from the 6" output of the stove to a 5" round pipe going up the chimney. There is quite a fair amount of mortar ooze I observed when I looked down the chimney from the top today (man that is not something I like doing 35 feet in the air on a steep roof) I figured it looked like about a half inch of mortar sticking out on all sides.

If I do insulate the metal liner whatever size that would work, the thickness of the insulation used it going to be a factor and necessitate the liner to be of a smaller dimension, plus there is the mortar ooze.

 

[Brian C.]

These are the pics I have at the moment, I can take better ones tomorrow if necessary or helpful.

 

[Noko]

That is Hearthstone II.
I am currently using one from 1984.
Noko

 

[begreen]

Yep, HII. That looks to be in really nice condition. You can use a 6" flue for this stove. Given the tall height, you might be able to get away with using a smaller size. Duraliner is made in 5 & 6". The insulation is built-in so the OD is the final, insulated dimension.

 

[Brian C.]

Whew, just finished reading the entire manual. By the way BeGreen, I love the Mark Twain quote, I'm going to have to remember that one, I've always tended to kinda think that way. But anyway.

Ok, so it's established that I have a Hearthstone II, I realized that while as I was reading the manual too. I realize that I "could" use a 6" flue for this stove, however, I really don't think I can, since my masonry chimney only has probably 5" of actual clearance available to use.

With that in mind, I'm thinking like a 5"x7" oval might be the best way to go, unless I can simply get by with a 5" round? (It did say in the manual, that you should not downsize, which would make the simple route of a 5" round a no-no, but I'm not sure if that is really gospel, and also true best practice, or just what they say for whatever reason not being founded entirely on fact and practicality so much as covering their butts.)

Either way, it must be code whichever way I go, again, it would be nice to not have to insulate it. And I know that pipe that comes with the insulation built in, is pretty expensive, probably too much for my wallet, especially 35 feet of it plus all the accessories. Another factor to the pre-insulated pipe is that I would guess the interior diameter would be getting kind of small. I couldn't use the 6" pipe, so going the 5" way, which I could only do by reducing from the 6" round output of the stove, to the pre-insulated 5" (which is getting down to a pretty small interior diameter I'd guess).

 

[DanCorcoran]

"...or just what they say for whatever reason not being founded entirely on fact and practicality so much as covering their butts.) "

I think you'll find that when a reputable manufacturer says not to do something, they're covering not only their butt, but yours and your family's as well.

 

[Brian C.]

Well, I would tend to agree actually, which is why I'm quite stumped as to what to do. Like I said above I've tried to do thus far in my house to code or above, and I've gone way above on many things. I do care about the safety of the house greatly, the framing is built like a tank as a testament to that.

Ok, thanks Dan, so that would mean that anything that doesn't have the same overall dimension of 6" round, is not going to be big enough, which rules out a 5" round entirely, and especially a preinsulated 5" round?

I guess the best I can come up with is to do a 5"x7" oval, which would be the equivalent of a 6" round wouldn't it?

Assuming that I'm following all of this correctly, that would mean a 5x7 oval flex liner is the way to go for my situation? Then also, do they make 5x7 oval Tees that the snout comes out with 6" round for easy hookup of the stove pipe?

where can I actually get all of this stuff, how do I put it together, etc ???

 

[Brian C.]

BeGreen, I just checked out that link you had up there for the DuraLiner oval pipes, wow, those are crazy expensive, I have almost 40 feet to run. Is there anything else really similar to that but not so crazy expensive and come in a much longer length, it would be nice not to have to pay more just to join a bunch of small pieces together. Man this is killer, I'm so broke... :*(

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

BeGreen, I just checked out that link you had up there for the DuraLiner oval pipes, wow, those are crazy expensive, I have almost 40 feet to run. Is there anything else really similar to that but not so crazy expensive and come in a much longer length, it would be nice not to have to pay more just to join a bunch of small pieces together. Man this is killer, I'm so broke... :*(

Wow! 40 Feet?!!
You shouldn't have any problem going with either a 5" or 5 1/2" liner & get the draft you need.
I'm also looking into relining my flue, with similar issues.
As you have discovered, ovalized/rectangular liners are rediculously expensive.
So far, the best deal I've found seems to be at www.chimneylinerdepot.com
Northline Express & Rockford Chimney also sell good setups, along w/ Magnaflex.

Hope this helps....

 

[Todd]

How bad are those hairline cracks? Before you go and spend money you don't have for a liner get a certified sweep out to look at your flue tiles and see if it's ok to vent your stove straight into it. It may be ok for now, but later on those tiles could get worse and you will need a reline, but if you don't have the funds now maybe you can use as is for a couple seasons?

 

[Brian C.]

@ Rob - It's not quite 40 feet, I measured about 34 1/2 from the exit of the flue just above the cap, to the midpoint of where the Tee would be in the basement, but I wanted to make sure I had enough so I was going to get 40 feet, although 35 plus the Tee I think might be enough.

Yeah I'm finding that out, the oval liners are crazy expensive, so you guys think a 5" would work even though I have a 6" output on my stove, like maybe a 5" round flex liner with a Tee on it that expands out to 6" to accept the stove pipe at the snout of the Tee? I'm trying to put all this different information from everyone together here and try to be sure it's going to be up to code and better if possible.


@ Todd - As far as possibly skipping it for a few seasons if the flues are sound, that isn't a bad idea at this point, perhaps I'll spring for a cleaning and see what they say, I think it would be wise to assume a worst case scenario so I can be prepared and ready to install a liner that I know is going to work and be code.