Installing new propane gas line for a gas cooking range

[pinetop12]

Will be replacing a Jenn Air Electric range , with a likely ? Duel fuel slide in range. I always wanted to change
my appliances with gas, so maybe now is the time. I was wondering if a self install of the gas lines is possible
and what help anyone here can offer. I was hoping I could install most of the hard piping in between the non existing
propane tank and the new range . Then have gas/oil company test and do final hook up.. What do you think?
Thanks ,Wayne

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It's not hard to do. Buy your black pipe, valves, etc from a quality plumbing supply place (not the borg) and take your time. Make sure you use a pipe dope that is certified for LP and make sure the joints are tight. Leak check each joint before you fire off the stove.

Matt

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Oh, I'd check with the gas company to see if they allow that. I'd hate to see you go through all the work to have them tear it apart and redo it.

Matt

 

[woodsman23]

Around here we have to use soft copper line with flared ends. I don't know why this is but i called the propane company and told them i wanted to use propane and they hooked up for free. Check with them first they like new customers and it may be an incentive.

 

[pinetop12]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I checked my gas/oil compaines web site breifly , the site had a FAQ area and mentions the tank is supplied rent free and they'll come out and give a free estimate which I asumme is normal for most such bussiness. I am in Maine so I wonder what codes may apply, such as tank placement ( is there something about electronic ignition ,tank/pipe distance? requirements?)
Should I also install Tee's with shut off valves in celler near termination piont for future gas appliance/heaters? And since this supply line in future may have added on aplliances does size stay same ?
Hopefully I can install most on my own and gas company can then run there own test and do final hook up.
Thanks

 

[velvetfoot]

Our house has propane for cooking and there's no hard piping as I can see, just some yellow plastic stuff.

 

[Gooserider]

Check your codes and local regs real carefully before doing anything - while it is physically possible to self install, there are a lot of places where they are really picky about who they let do work on gas lines and / or have inspection requirements that make it impractical - i.e. you have to get a signoff by a licensed plumber, which most don't since it's their license on the line if you screwed something up and they didn't catch it...

It's a PITA having to pay someone to do something you could easily do yourself I know, but this is one of those cases where it sort of makes sense - mistakes can cause you to go BOOM! and wake up the neighbors...

Gooserider

 

[firefighterjake]

Will be replacing a Jenn Air Electric range , with a likely ? Duel fuel slide in range. I always wanted to change
my appliances with gas, so maybe now is the time. I was wondering if a self install of the gas lines is possible
and what help anyone here can offer. I was hoping I could install most of the hard piping in between the non existing
propane tank and the new range . Then have gas/oil company test and do final hook up.. What do you think?
Thanks ,Wayne

Talk about good timing . . . this weekend my wife asked me about the possibility of running a new propane supply line as she wants to get a new oven and move some of the kitchen appliances around a bit. Very good timing since I was kind of wondering some of these same questions.

 

[pinetop12]

STATE OF MAINE
PROPANE AND NATURAL GAS BOARD
LAWS AND RULES
DEPARTMENT OF PROFESSIONAL AND FINANCIAL REGULATION
OFFICE OF LICENSING AND REGISTRATION
PROPANE AND NATURAL GAS BOARD
35 STATE HOUSE STATION
AUGUSTA, MAINE 04333
TELEPHONE: 207/624-8606
www.maine.gov/professionallicensing
Published under appropriation Number4510
Sept. 2007, edition
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 14............ I found this section near bottom of page 14, says pinetop.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ 2007, c. 402, Pt. LL, §11 (AMD) .]
4-A. Personal abode. Nothing in this chapter prevents a person from making a
propane or natural gas installation in a single family residence occupied or to be
occupied by that person as that person's bona fide personal abode, as long as that
installation conforms with board laws and rules.
[ 1999, c. 386, Pt. V, §9 (NEW) .]
5. .........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was able to find the above info, doing a search. Seems a home owner in Maine can do the installation as
long as its your home.
Now to figure out the code, so install meets what is required. Any gas installers willing, to share that information?
I called my gas/oil company for estimate, but have not had a return call yet from thier gas person.

Thats where I am today...

 

[triptester]

Flared soft copper is the norm for LP. Black steel pipe is used for NG. Some communities are now allowing a special plastic pipe.

Most communities allow work in your own single family home BUT insurance companies can refuse to pay claims if you can't prove the job was performed by a qualified professional.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

We are only allowed to use copper outside. Everything had to be black pipe inside. Too many people probably sunk nails into the copper.

Matt

 

[TomB]

Be safe... Call a professional plumber, not a handy man, not a witch doctor. Have some one with insurance and the knowledge to install you gas line. In the long run, it will cost you the same amount of money. Its time you won't be wasting driving back and forth to the store to buy pipe and fittings. A plus is, if your house burns down because you really don't know what your doing, your homeowners insurance pays for it. If the plumber burns down your house, his insurance pays the bill. Just my 2 cents.

 

[tubbster]

How is black pipe different from the borg vs. a "quality" store?

 

[Gooserider]

How is black pipe different from the borg vs. a "quality" store?

There are some folks that claim the "quality stuff" is made with a better grade of steel which makes for stronger fittings and more cleanly and accurately cut threads on both pipe and fittings. I don't know how true that is, but it doesn't seem totally unreasonable either....

Even if it is true, I'm not sure how much difference it really makes if you are doing the joints up properly. The way I learned from watching our plumber is to put on a layer of RectorSeal pipe dope, then a layer of teflon tape, then another layer of RectorSeal, and screw together - three turns past finger tight on less than 2" pipe. He says that this is the most reliable joint making method he's found, and I haven't had any problems with the joints that I've made that way. It's a bit messy, but so what....

Gooserider

 

[Czech]

Don't smoke while doing this job.... That said, flare fittings do not need to be doped. Soft copper is fairly easy to work with (type K), as mentioned make sure your local inspector/codes are cool prior to doing the job. A pressure test once the job is done is a must, basically putting air pressure on the run with a gauge attached and let sit for a day or two. Same pressure after a day or two? Good to go. Test the final connection with soap water or a liquid indicator for leaks. Black pipe varies in quality, I would shy away from non-US made product. Lastly and as already stated, make sure your insurance guy is happy!

 

[DAKSY]

A pressure test once the job is done is a must, basically putting air pressure on the run with a gauge attached and let sit for a day or two. Same pressure after a day or two?

Geez! A DAY or TWO?!?!?!
If it can hold pressure for 10 MINUTES it will hold forever.
We test our flex line (Trac-Pipe)for NG to 5PSI & see if it holds for 10 minutes.
If it does, we move on to the next phase...
Waiting TWO days would put most guys out of business...

 

[jdemaris]

I was wondering if a self install of the gas lines is possible
and what help anyone here can offer. I was hoping I could install most of the hard piping in between the non existing
propane tank and the new range . Then have gas/oil company test and do final hook up.. What do you think?
Thanks ,Wayne

I'm more familiar with Michigan, Vermont, and New York codes - but I doubt they vary much for Maine. Generally speaking, copper is fine except when passing through a building wall or in any area where it can get hit. Usually copper outside - and black pipe going through the wall and in the house.

You have to plan your runs kind of like you plan wire-sizes to avoid voltage-drops. With gas - the longer the run - the higher the pressure needed - or - the bigger the pipe. Otherwise you get a pressure-drop. If your tank is going to be a substantial distance from the appliances - you probably need to install a high-pressure/low-pressure system. You install a high-pressure regulator at the tank. Then you can keep line size down to a minimum until it gets to the house. Then - the high-pressure LP line hooks to a 2nd, low-pressure regulator - and that feeds your house. This also gives another advantage. Hi-low systems don't have freeze-up problems like single-regulator systems can have. In very cold temps, systems with just one regulator - that has a steep pressure drop - tend to freeze if there's any moisture in the LP gas.

You also have the issue of the individual gas company. They tend to all have their own in-house rules. Some will not hook to a house with pilot lights. Others won't hook to match-lit stoves, etc.
And, one more issue. Even though some claim that they don't charge any lease on tanks - with many - it's not really true. Some just add it to the price of the gas and don't allow any customers to own tanks. I found that out with a few companies that said the lease was free - yet would not allow me to have my own tank. I finally just bought my own 1000 gallon tank and found a place that fills it at a cheaper rate.

 

[Brian VT]

We added a propane range and fireplace 2 years ago. The propane company brought the tanks and ran the connections. They ran soft copper on the outside of the house.
We've bought propane from them for a few years but are now seeing much cheaper prices advertised than what we're paying. We called another company and they sent an "inspector" to check out our system. They said that the outside copper needs to be grounded to our plumbing system.
What ? I have a spare grounding rod that I could drive into the ground near the propane line and hook up, but why ? Also, I didn't think grounding to your plumbing was generally the best option ?

 

[DAKSY]

They said that the outside copper needs to be grounded to our plumbing system.
What ? I have a spare grounding rod that I could drive into the ground near the propane line and hook up, but why ? Also, I didn't think grounding to your plumbing was generally the best option ?

The grounding part comes in after some incidences of lightning strikes causing fires - ESPECIALLY with CSS type gaslines.
The strike would cause an arc to the nearest ground, resulting in a hole burnt thru the CSS.
While the gas line wouldn't internally ignite, it became a small flame thrower on the outside when the air/gas ratio was right.
I suppose they carried the grounding over to copper due to its conductivity & the potential for the same type of arcing...
We ground everything now, whether it's to the breaker panel or directly into the ground via a rod...

 

[Gooserider]

We added a propane range and fireplace 2 years ago. The propane company brought the tanks and ran the connections. They ran soft copper on the outside of the house.
We've bought propane from them for a few years but are now seeing much cheaper prices advertised than what we're paying. We called another company and they sent an "inspector" to check out our system. They said that the outside copper needs to be grounded to our plumbing system.
What ? I have a spare grounding rod that I could drive into the ground near the propane line and hook up, but why ? Also, I didn't think grounding to your plumbing was generally the best option ?

One of the subtle problems w/ earth grounds is that they aren't always the same... When I was in electronics school many years back, we had an electric trolly running down the streeet in front of the school - we could get a 20-30 volt swing in "ground" when a train went by... Lightning strikes can cause similar variations - I suspect what your LP company is wanting to do is tie the "ground" of the LP piping to the "ground" of your plumbing in order to make sure that they both stay at the same potential, no matter what.

Gooserider

 

[Brian VT]

Great info guys ! Thanks.