insulate pipes?

[ssupercoolss]

i am thinking the next time money starts to fall from the sky, i should run to cheapo depot and get some insulation for the hot water pipes in my basement. as near as i can figure, i have a monoflow system, which means i have 2 loops of pipe running around my basement....lots of exposed piping. basement gets plenty warm, even though there are no actual radiators.

what do yo think? worth the money?

 

[chuck172]

I insulated my basement copper pipes and I found I could get up to 185-190* storage now, where I'd be 10* cooler before. It was worth it to me.

 

[Dave T]

I had an OWB last year and my floors were nearly foot cramping cold, this year I have EKO in the basement and all the close to boiler piping exposed and my floors are much warmer I like it like that..Dave

 

[rickh1001]

Insulating the distribution piping is kind of a balancing act. Like TacoSteelerMan, last year I didn't heat the basement at all, and the house never felt warm. With the EKO60 plus storage, the basement is at 80+F most times, and I really don't need to turn on the thermostat controlling the heat exchangers in the oil burner plenums. That said however, I found that I was pouring too much heat into the basement, and losing more to the walls, even though they are finished with 2X4/sheetrock (but not insulated). So I just wrapped the 500 gal storage tank with 4" of fiberglass bat. The cellar temp dropped a little, and I have an easier time keeping in the tank, so I can send it off to other zones. I picture the entire boiler system as its own heat radiator. I insulated is a little, until now I have it so I keep the cellar warm, which heats the floors almost like radiant heat would. I figured if I insulated every pipe as though the boiler were outdoors, in the end I would just have to add a zone to heat the basement! So I think the answer to your question is, to insulate as much, or as little as you need, to keep the cellar temp where you want it.

My wife complains about the smoke smell sometimes (all the time?) from when I open the EKO up to reload it. However, not only do I love the smell (of money being saved), but it is heaven having the beast in the cellar, along with 5 cords of perfectly dry wood, and just loading it in my bathrobe whenever I need to, even with a snowstorm outside!

 

[chuck172]

I have 80' of 1- 1/4" copper mains in the basement. Big time heat loss. True it kept the basement warm and the ceiling warm, but I had no control. I ran a zone in the basement and also use it as my overheat loop.
Big difference in supplying the storage tank, also the tank holds its heat longer.

 

[Plumbit]

There are charts that will tell you the BTU loss from each size and type of pipe. I looked up my 1 1/4 black steel pipe and with 180 degree water in it. I was losing 111 BTU's per foot. For me that was 105' of pipe, 11,655 BTU's or almost 21' of finned baseboard heat. After adding insulation the temperature in the playroom dropped to 72` ( therm. is still set at 66`) Much Much, better now the heat reaches my oil boiler and keep that from coming on. I have only had my oil come on for 6hrs in the last week and half. ( still learning how to run the add-on !) I found the charts in the Burnhan Helper boiler book. you can download the PDF file if you want a copy.

 

[Dave T]

Like boilerman stated earlier it is up to you if you insulate the pipes or not, BUT the insulation if you want it is worth every penny and will increase efficiency, and will never go bad so if you buy it and choose to not use it now you can always use it later on future plumbing..Dave

 

[ssupercoolss]

i easily have 100' of pipe in my basement associated with my hot water system. i think some insulation might be worth the money. always tinkering.

 

[velvetfoot]

I put that stuff on a lot of pipes in the basement.
It's good for condensation on cold pipes in the summer too.
Thing is, I recently noted that some of it melted close to my oil hot water boiler, about 6".
It's set at 180 but seems to shut off mostly at 170 according to the hydrostat.

 

[Tony H]

Yes insulating the basement pipes is worth it. Just insulate to the degree you need, if you need no heat in the basement like me insulate all the pipes if you have spaces to heat decide is it better to just leave off the insulation in that area or make it a zone so you can have full control.

 

[heaterman]

Bare piping be it copper or steel makes an excellent radiator. For example 1.25" bare copper will emit 66btu's per lineal foot at 180* degrees in a surrounding air temp of 70*.

You can see output/loss for all sizes of copper and steel here http://www.burnham.com/PDF/htghelper.pdf on page 47 and 48.

The Burnham Heating Helper is a dandy resource for huge variety of questions that normally come up in a hydronic discussion or design. You can download it free at the link given above. A lot of the little book deals with steam but there is a wealth of info on boiler bypass and system bypass piping which would be of high value to anyone seeking to protect their gasifier investment.

Enjoy

There are a couple schools of thought on insulating hydronic piing located within the conditioned space. One is that if it's inside the building then the heat emitted from the piing is not actually lost.........which is true. It may however be of consequence if it causes uncontrolled overheating of areas that don't need to be kept all that warm in the first place. The other school of thought is that it should always be insulated and if heat is needed in any area it should be controlled. When you're burning a fuel that's costly like LP or fuel oil it makes sense to control heating output as much as possible. With wood I think that I would have to put the pencil on the paper to see what my payback actually is.

 

[Dave T]

Heaterman,
That site you posted is wild it goes into piping, symbols, relays, wattages,and all sorts of things like indirect scheams all this with easy to understand language I SAVED THIS ONE FOR SURE because I know i'll be lookin for this info in the future THANKS HEATERMAN great resourse...Dave

 

[heaterman]

Heaterman,
That site you posted is wild it goes into piping, symbols, relays, wattages,and all sorts of things like indirect scheams all this with easy to understand language I SAVED THIS ONE FOR SURE because I know i'll be lookin for this info in the future THANKS HEATERMAN great resourse...Dave

You can also contact Burnham and order the little gem in paperback form. It's been around for decades as far as I know and has been updated as time went along and methods materials and practices have changed.

I'd really love to see a couple of our US boiler manufacturers get into the gasification side of the market and if anyone does contact Burnham for a copy of the Heating Helper mention to them that we'd love to see them in the fray.

 

[in hot water]

If you do decide to insulate, be sure to buy the correct insulation. Inexpensive "home store" foam may not stand up to the temperatures of a hydronic system. It's fine for hot and cold water piping, but not so for HW hydronic.

I buy the split product from Armacell called Armaflex Microban. Slide it over the pipe, pull the paper from the self adhesive and squeeze it together.

It is soft and flexible enough to do curves and fittings.

hr

 

[heaterman]

If you do decide to insulate, be sure to buy the correct insulation. Inexpensive "home store" foam may not stand up to the temperatures of a hydronic system. It's fine for hot and cold water piping, but not so for HW hydronic.

I buy the split product from Armacell called Armaflex Microban. Slide it over the pipe, pull the paper from the self adhesive and squeeze it together.

It is soft and flexible enough to do curves and fittings.

hr

Nice! I've been waiting for you to post that circular P/S arrangement here. I'm sure you'll get some questions about that.